Force Sensitive Archive

Thread: Whoever came up with the Jedi grind should be sacked! (The math)

konik
Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:01 pm
#14



Eelo889 wrote:
Ok, I can see we are now in the "hey the jedi grind for me is no problem and you must be doing it wrong or can't take it" part of the thread, however, you guys seem to be missing my point. Let me review:
1. The new jedi system was sold as a more interesting way to obtain jedi than grinding professions. It was supposed to be more realistic and more fun. As I see it, the new grind is the equivalent of doing 22.5 professions plus doing some brief missions plus driving back and forth to some obscure village on Dathomir. This is what I consider a complete screwover by the developers.
2. Grinding is not fun for most gamers. I realize that most people who read these forums are power gamers and consider a grind a normal part of gaming but most gamers hate grinding. I hate grinding. I purchased SWG to to have fun and be immersed in the Star Wars universe. I did not grind professions because it wasn't what I wanted to do and when the devs promised a more interesting way to jedi, I actually believed them.
3. I wasn't posting this thread to whine but I just had a revelation that I had been lied to and am frustrated.





no, we in the part of the thread where someone says, its only a grind if you allow it to be a grind, if you get to grips with the game mechanics, for example: as stated its more efficient to kill hurton stalkers than tuskens.

but ask yourself why do you want to be jedi when you have KOTOR to play, ahhhh thats right you want to feel superior to the other gamers in this environment...not *you* as in you but that is the draw of jedi, to make any good product that is not useful or not *needed* to us humans a desire concept has to be created. it is this you crave, just treat it as nothing and you will get there a lot quicker i guarantee you of that.
tea2397
Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:22 am
#15

Ouch! Now that's a Grind!




Tozia/Kruanus
Empire Elite
Imperial Colonel
| Imperial ACE |Dark Jedi Knight
(gnn[[[[[[[[[[nnnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggg)
Ilias_Lightstar
Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:37 am
#16

I grind 120k FS Xp everyday and i have 4 branches to fill and another 2 to unlock.

The Jedi path isnt an easy one but i know i will get there sooner or later.

And btw: If anyone of you cant take the heat, just drop it and do something else. But dont come in here whining.

Dixos
Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:42 am
#17

Go for genades you can do a line per week



Dixos Solarion
----|------------------- Valcyn


sexwax
Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:51 am
#18






Eelo889 wrote:

As far as my selection of things to kill, tuskens spawn continuously, lairs have to be searched out or gotten in missions, which even though I would get double the xp for each kill, I couldn't kill them fast enough to get the same xp, IMO.






So we have established that you cannot do simple math.



Study this a minimum of TWICE in it's entirety BEFORE you post
Bringing the squabbling Forums together in their hatred for flamed posts, one flame at a time
"Empire had the better ending, I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett it ends on such a down note, I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets."
NACHODEWI
Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:03 am
#19

Everyone knows if they make it any easier the Jedi problem would be so much worse!



Dweibokyt RotaenMaster Bounty Hunter
Warryyr
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:06 am
#20






Eelo889 wrote:


Also, to all you commandos that will explain to me how I can do grenades, yes, I am on that already, but it will still take a long time. Too long. And in doing this, I'm just trying to beat the system. Beating the system is also boring. Grinding is boring. The basic combat in SWG is boring. And my biggest fear: I'll get to padewan and find it terribly boring...





I've been using grenades. I started with 1 tier one box filled (ranged accuracy1). That was about a week and a half ago.


I now have 3 and 3/4 branches done. Soon I'll only have 2 branches left to grind - one i've unlocked, and one I must unlock during Phase 4 (ranged speed).


It's a time commitment, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, the grind can get pretty rough mentally. If you feel burnt out, take a break and don't grind. It'll just make you frustrated. I tried to grind last night and only got 200k FS xp instead of the usual 300k and change. I just chalked it up to a bad night (got a horrible disease from something near one of my lairs, lasted for over a 1/2 hour, about 90 wounds per tick).


The point is - NEVER look at the math. Look at your skills, and the next box you must do. NEVER look at the math, it all becomes insurmountable if you do this. Keep it one box at a time, train your boxes as you go along for encouragement, and once you get 3 branches done, it'll feel like you're finally getting closer and closer to the end.


Given that there's 3 weeks between phases, that allows for plenty of casual gaming to grind the branch you unlocked.


I've grinded pretty hardcore to catch up with things (unlocked 5 branches, had 1 box done. ONE) and it didn't take long.


Gettinga Jedi shouldn't be easy, far from it. The game isn't supposed to allow anyone who just up and decides to get a Jedi to get one - Jedi is a reward for the dedication and commitment you put into your character. I agree the grind is pretty insane, but then again, it makes it all the more rewarding when you get it. Hopefully I'll get my xp done by next Tuesday or so, with enough time to regrind some TK skills before the phase shift.


I don't think the Devs lied really, they just didn't tell us the level of grinding necessary. Personally I think the xp ratio IS pretty stupid, since the Village itself is gated to ONE BRANCH per Phase. Even if you could jam through the xp in little time, who cares? I've ground out most of my xp in fairly little time, but nevertheless I spent the last several months doing the missions to unlock branches. Heck, I could've gotten all my xp in the first 3 weeks, and I'd still have to wait for the Phases to shift and the branches to unlock. So, I agree that they replaced one ridiculous series of grinding into another - and it's a rather poor choice. But, they want the Jedi to be those who've dedicated themselves to serious time commitments to the game. It's a dedicated gamer's reward, is all.


I really wish it *was* a tad easier to get Jedi, just so bounty hunters would have some folks for target practice (those who don't take Jedi seriously).


When I light up that lightsaber, it's all gonna be worthwhile. Just keep your eyes on the prize. And I guess, just accept that this system is sort of ludricrous - but it's how the system was made.


Message Edited by Warryyr on 01-28-2005 09:13 AM

Firioc
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:41 am
#21

/rant on

I sort of agree with Eelo889. I am also a more casual player and mostly a crafter (armorsmith). With almost no grinding and selling every piece of armor I made, I managed to reach master armorsmith in 6 months. I had loads of fun doing this. It made the game really pleasant.

Now I like to get the 16 FS crafting boxes and I did the math too. At the rate I am playing now I will need 47,5 years to complete this. There is no grenades solution for this. And then I read in the forums: crafting boxes are so easy. Way faster than combat. Sure, if I spend three days non stop clicking and making droid chassis.

1) I am an armorsmith. I like to get those boxes with my profession, which is stupidly hard.
2) Crafting is making stuff for you and others so they can use the items. I enjoy it when a customer comes back and tells me they love my armor. Burning a couple of million of resources and clicking like mad is not going to give me that satisfaction.

So if you play as a normal player with a chosen profession there is no way you can do it while still selling all your crafted products.

I don't mind if it is hard. But 47,5 and half years? Anybody here thinks that's realistic?
The comment "You must be doing it wrong" is totally out of place for me. Making good armor takes time and needs factory runs which don't get me any xp. I make only 10k AS xp per week.

Out of misery I mastered Artisan so I could make some landspeeders which are at least usefull too to other players.
/rant off

I can appreciate both sides of the story and I am not expecting it to be easy. I have the patience, otherwise I would have givven up on AS long ago.

Firioc

Nooba Warando -Master Armorsmith- Eclipse



Play - Don't grind.
"always looking to the future this one is. Never his mind on where he is, what he is doing." -Yoda-
Ta-Swavo
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:50 am
#22

I'm surprised they didn't do away with ALL this


Make FS TOTALLY random


Each month choose a few people and make them padawan - bias this based upon number of hours played maybe. This way SOE would encourage folks to stay subscribed and actually PLAY the game.


Unfortunately there are those that think 3 hours of mindlessly bashing sand people (or giant baz nitches) is acceptable as a task to make becoming jedi hard. No, becoming padawan should be EASY and based upon chance. Training as a Jedi once a Padawan should be hard.


As has been said though - no matter what they do we'll moan that is isn't ideal so the devs are just unfortunate enoguh not to have hit the perfect solution straight away




Chimaera : Ta-Swavo vendors at Naboo -5123 5491 (1300m from Theed)
Eclipse : Atiri
Farstar : Yavan
Nifty
Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:56 pm
#23

actually, I'd go so far as to say "whoever came up with the idea of allowing player Jedi in between Ep IV and V should be smacked."


SOE should have gotten access to Ep II stuff, and have the game set between EP II and EP III. Player Jedi could be around without destroying canon, and you'd still have a galactic conflict between the Separatists and Republic. Only real drawback is no TIEs and X-Wings in JTL. Of course, that's my opinion, and it's shared by probably no one else.


So, player Jedi in SWG... SOE should have stuck to the original plan and tracked more metrics besides "master 5 random professions." SOE should never, ever have caved in and explained theForce Sensitiveunlock method. There should never have been a Jedi slot. Should have been your character discovers they are Force Sensitive when you "unlock" and you choose whether to explore the Force or keep doing what you're doing. Exploring the Force should have been quest based, and gated solely by time (not by XP grinds.) Exploring beyond Padawan should have been quest based, gated by time, XP grinds,and by difficult SOLO trials (instanced areas that only the Jedi could go in.) Again, at no point should SOE have ever revealed how to unlock FS.


I think they are not too far off on how FS should work after unlock. I just think they screwed the pooch on unlock and it just cannot ever be repaired fairly, so they let everyone know how to unlock. So... I just try my best to get used to SOE's version of Star Wars and try not to think too much about "How can they screw up Star Wars this badly???"




Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
llegg
Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:13 pm
#24

I'm approaching the halfway point in the grind. I've taken several breaks along the way to keep things fresh, mostly doing different things on my current server as well as starting a Bounty Hunter on another server. I figure that way when i'm staying away from my jedi waiting for visibility to clear, I'll jump over to the other server and kill a few myself. =)


Rigor Mortis,

Master Doc

Master Pike

Tempest



Other server information withheld to protect the vulnerable -)
Balkinray
Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:56 pm
#25

with out bashing this post I will point out 1 major flaw in your calculation. You left out the combat xp which is a 3-1 conversion rate. So for every time you max out one combat profession U will get 900,000 (lets just say TK xp) and 300,000 combat xp which comes out to 130,000 force xp per xp cap. If you maxed out combat as well. which could easyly be done my maxing out 2 combat professions in one xp cap wich will add anouther 30k of FS xp per cap, which would take the total of 160k FS xp per xp turn in. This can accure in one or 2 buff sessions depending on how much you play. I am also a player that only gets to play every other day for ony 3 hours per play session. I can usually max out TK and swords along with combat in 1 buff session. I do this by just running missions for Hurton Stalkers or killing the spawns at the Bunker. I am also a player that has been playing since Beta and mastered 29 pro's before the change and was only awarded 4 tree's for those professions. get Jedi can be done, but like many have stated before, the grind after getting Jedi is harder then the grind to get it.


I actually think the way to get to the village is still to easy. but is fair to the casual player. The path of the Jedi is a hard one, but a FUN one.



~Balkin~
Light Jedi Knight

SOE = Screwing Others Everyday
Iakimo
Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:22 pm
#26






Eelo889 wrote:

I finally did the math:


To obtain even one level of force sensitive I would need 1,225,000 jedi exp


This translates to 36,750,000 of some 30 to 1 combat trade in but I'll half it because I get combat xp too = 18,375,000


Now if I take reasonably hard enemies at the Tusken fort that can be dispatched relatively quickly, I will get roughly 2100 xp per tusken.


This means I would need to kill roughly 8750 tuskens per force sensitive level for a grand total of52,500 tuskens, which is about half the population of the town I live in!





You're right, the math is daunting. But yes, you can find easier and more generous kills for experience. My current grinding target is rancors on Dathomir. I'm a Bounty Hunter/Creature Handler, and I've found that with all my pets pulled, I can get level-48 rancor lairs. Each mission generates an average of 9 rancors per lair (three on the surface, then two more spawns of three each). If I use my scatter pistol, I'll get about 4100 xp per creature -- typically a mix of a regular rancor, a gnarled rancor, and a rancor youth. On top of that, I can get another 450 to 490 CH xp each for using a pet (a bioengineered lvl-32 razor cat with light armor and 60% kinetic resistance) plus another 750 Scout xp for harvesting resources off their corpses. These two types of XP translate to Heightened Senses xp, which I cash in for FS Healing xp. As you can see, the weapons xp is about twice what you were postulating for Tuskens, with another excellent side add-on for the Heightened Senses box. Between the two, I filled Ranged Defenses-4 (450,000 FS xp) in about 30 man-hours,while simultaneously filling FS Healing-1.


It gets even better if I run across a random Enraged Rancor spawn. For those, the CH xp jumps to 1100 per animal.


And I'm also back up close to two million credits in the bank!







---------------------------
Things every player should read....
1. GameSpy's interview with Julio Torres on the negative fan reaction to his earlier interview about the launch of the New Game Environment: Clicky

2. ZDnet's GameSpot.com's reader reviews of the Post-NGE Star Wars: Galaxies Starter Kit: Clicky No. 2

3. MMORPG.com's editorial on the ethics of changing an active MMORPG: Clicky No. 3
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