Force Sensitive Archive
Thread: Increasing conversion rates lead to decreasing community feel?
Message Edited by Hydro_AcE on 08-10-2005 01:41 AM
Message Edited by Hydro_AcE on 08-10-2005 01:43 AM
Hydro_AcE wrote:
SOE needs to realize that paying customers do not like to be treated likebeta testers, and thats basically what they have turned us into. SOE and Origin have a lot in common in that respect.
Message Edited by Hydro_AcE on 08-10-2005 01:41 AM
Message Edited by Hydro_AcE on 08-10-2005 01:43 AM
Message Edited by Yoshiyuki on 08-10-2005 02:59 AM
Hydro_AcE wrote:
My best advice would be to hold off on grinding anything and just unlock everything first.
I appreciate what you are trying to say but this will not fly in practice.
Once someone has decided they are going to follow the bol-strewn path to becoming Jedi they are hardly likely to spend 18 weeks (minimum) unlocking the FS lines they wish to use and only then start collecting XP. As we have seen, what happens is that people grind and grind to convert the xp so that when they unlock a branch they can complete it then and there.
This change to XP conversion rates will slow down people that are grinding for jedi, but I would argue that it is now more likely that people will remove themselves from any community activity as they will be filling every single moment trying to max xp/hour. This is what happened in hologrind - no interaction beyond what was necessary to complete the next prof on the list.
I still believe that a better way would be to gate progress rather than encourage mindless grinding. I am now facing several months (due to time constraints) to complete the last 7 boxes of the FS trees. This would not irk me so much if I was gated - I would be far happier knowing that my grind was done and I could enjoy other things whilst waiting for the next unlock stage as opposed to knowing that every time I log on I should be spending every available minute killing the 12,346 bol required (provided they keep at 6k xp per kill) to complete the grind. Like I said, real community building stuff.
I think that the grinding that you are talking about can certainly lead to a community feel if you have a nice chatty group. I mean even in the days of solo groups we would chat and trade jokes. Now you are actually WITH the people you are grinding with, you can chat as well and make friends and do other things with them as well other than grind occasionally.
Our town goes out and does lairs together and we meet other people and are happy to have them join in and chat with us. The game is what you make it.
Dorelli wrote:
I think that the grinding that you are talking about can certainly lead to a community feel if you have a nice chatty group. I mean even in the days of solo groups we would chat and trade jokes. Now you are actually WITH the people you are grinding with, you can chat as well and make friends and do other things with them as well other than grind occasionally.
Our town goes out and does lairs together and we meet other people and are happy to have them join in and chat with us. The game is what you make it.
I think maybe we have a different idea of community (not trying to be arguable - just seeking to clarify my own position), your sentence:
"I think that the grinding that you are talking about can certainly lead to a community feel if you have a nice chatty group."
I agree that sometimes you do chance upon some friendly people within the XP grind groups, but this is not adding to SWG community per se - player cities do not directly benefit from these groups, you are not grouping to defeat some common foe, it is not adding to the GCW etc etc. Do you see my point of view? I should have been a bit more explicit about my interpretation of community. I mean it as something that builds and develops the SWG environment as a whole, not 8 people have a chat whilst repeating the same 3 actions ad nauseam.
Next line:
"Our town goes out and does lairs together"
Now this is a bit better - if you are lucky enough to have the right number of people within your town that are online at the same times and all willing to help each other out then count yourself fortunate. But think of all the other things you could be doing as a town - running base raids, helping people through theme parks, developing a flight wing, organising events, building up that town mall etc etc
"you can chat as well and make friends and do other things with them as well other than grind occasionally."
Well, this is part of my problem - with the new XP requirements, people are not grinding occasionally, they are grinding full-time.
NACHODEWI wrote:
Damn there is no end to all these whining posts. People try to disguise it but the fact is its is still whining. Either adjust or quit. Spending your time whining instead of playing is not going to help you get Jedi any easier.
You are aware that you don't actually have to read these posts if you don't want to.
Follow your own suggestion, either adjust or stop reading the forums.
Balancing a game system is not how fair it is to the players its how slow it can be before players dont like it... and if the find a system that is just slow enough so people only complains about it (but dont leave) they acctually maximized the efficiency of their product
Message Edited by MrZink on 08-10-2005 03:07 PM
I wouldn't even limit this thread to just the conversion rates, I'd go as far as the whole game. Even if anyone decide not to bother with Jedi anymore and do other professions, it all seems pointless, by the time you've mastered it, its borked.
Publish 21 also brought a CH update, which looks great, haven't tried it, but the pets use same code for droids, so has now borked the droid profession, as some of the droid commands now no longer function.
What, by the time you get to Jedi, that the devs may end up making as good as any other profession, therefor end up making it pointless to spend loads of time doing.
I was mainly doing the FS grind to get 2nd slot, and get the Crafting Mastery skills, which I may still end up doing, as those are still as difficult/more boring than the combat grind, but thinking now, may just get another account, and alternate each account each month, so still paying $14.99 per month, the thought of doing more combat for reflex/medic for senses is just too much when could have the 2nd account now. I'm not losing anything from this, except the effeiency to have 2 chars able to log in within the same month, but SOE will lose $14.99 for it per month, and I'll also get a BARC speeder and more vet rewards, although will take twice as long to get. 
Actually SOE wouldn't really lose $14.99 per month as if I unlocke 2nd slot, they wouldn't be getting an extra $14.99 anyway, althoughit could result in me finishing game sooner than what I would have done,but it gets rid of all that unnecessary grinding and can get on with my other professions, that I have plans for the 2nd slot ..... thats if I can be bothered with it all ..... WOW is ceratianly getting more and more attractive each publish. 
I started SWG on day 1. The game was more about community. The game created an economy, and all professions seem to carry weight and interest.I actually was so delusional that I thought if I could be the best musician on the server, help out the most people, do as many good deeds as I could think of I may unlock my slot...seemed very jedi like at the time...
Then holocrons came out and hopes of jedi danced in peoples heads. A good number of people who play star wars games play to wield a lightsaber. With holocrons came grind, with grind came player hate and loss of community (heh Yoda).
But some people can rise above this. They refuse to be caught up in the whirlwind and they need to be recognized and commended. Unlocking just holds too many advantages to everyone. Rather a chance to wield a lightsaber or an extra slot without having to pay an extra $15/mo. Or the most popular, both.