Fencer Archive
Thread: Should I use armour?
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Eifodvi
Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:38 pm
#1
I'm now fencer 0433 and I've been experimenting with not using armour as I've seen people talk about it.
My reasoning is that with all my new defence skills, high secondary stats and no encumbrance, my primary stats should be able to regenerate fast enough to keep up with the lower damage that's now being done to me.
I have migrated my stats so my secondaries are high, but I find that I still get killed by a piket without armour, while I don't if I wear it.
I'm not buffed & not using specials. If I use specials unbuffed, I incap myself pretty quickly.
Am I attempting to do without too soon? Why do many fencers not wear armour?
I have created a CoB macro, but I wasn't using it in the above test. Would it have made so much difference?
My reasoning is that with all my new defence skills, high secondary stats and no encumbrance, my primary stats should be able to regenerate fast enough to keep up with the lower damage that's now being done to me.
I have migrated my stats so my secondaries are high, but I find that I still get killed by a piket without armour, while I don't if I wear it.
I'm not buffed & not using specials. If I use specials unbuffed, I incap myself pretty quickly.
Am I attempting to do without too soon? Why do many fencers not wear armour?
I have created a CoB macro, but I wasn't using it in the above test. Would it have made so much difference?
Maast
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:17 pm
#2
dbmack wrote:
Personally, when I'm fighting, I'm always wearing armor (80% composite), buffed, and drunk on Brandy.
But I'm also Master Doc, so easy access to buffs and all my Heath and Action stats are at 400 and my mind is at 1100, so I really have no choice but to buff up.
And I always have the CoB macro going. As long as buffs are easily available and you can afford them, why wouldn't you give yourself the same advantage that everyone else has?
I fight with full comp with nearly 80% kinetic and I'm always buffed - with mind, focus and willpower buffs if I can find them (from dancers & musicians), plus brandy and moun gold. The blue bar buffing is essential because then you can fight using nothing but special attacks (depending on what you're fighting). I grind piket missions and I do nothing but specials - spin attack2 near the nest to spawn them all and drop them 5 at a time....easy 25k xp and 9k cash.
Finding buffs is easy - just go to Coronet or another major city and it's not hard.
I wasn't sure about armor either until I tried it. Now I would not fight without it unless I could help it. I'm pretty much untouchable now to groups of anything with HAM less than 10k each. I don't use CoB anymore unless I'm fighting something huge. (I am 2443 btw).
dbmack
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:40 pm
#3
I don't use CoB anymore unless I'm fighting something huge. (I am 2443 btw).
If you're completely buffed, there's no real reason not to use CoB. The amount of Health and Action that it uses gets regen'd quickly by the buffs. It makes you harder to hit, which is obviously good and in the long run, much easier on your armor.
And you can set up a simple macro to have it run all the time. Something like this:
/pause 1;
/centerofBeing;
/pause 35;
/ui actiontoolbarSlotXX;
that's for a master fencer with a 30+ second CoB, so you'll have to tinker with it to fit your needs.
dbmack
Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:22 am
#4
Personally, when I'm fighting, I'm always wearing armor (80% composite), buffed, and drunk on Brandy.
But I'm also Master Doc, so easy access to buffs and all my Heath and Action stats are at 400 and my mind is at 1100, so I really have no choice but to buff up.
And I always have the CoB macro going. As long as buffs are easily available and you can afford them, why wouldn't you give yourself the same advantage that everyone else has?
Eifodvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:09 am
#5
Thanks guys, but I wasn't asking for advice on what to do when buffed. I know that when I'm buffed I can go without armour & use specials CoB etc with no real problems.
I have been fighting pikets without buffs or food. If I don't use any specials I can kill them quite easily, only having to use /healdamage self occasionally when there are more than one of them.
My questions was really to try and find out why a lot of fencers don't use armour. There must be an advantage to it in some way. Maybe, if I bump my secondary stats up even more, and I get to master fencer with all the defence skills, then I just won't need armour because my stats will regenerate fast enough? Maybe I'm better off without armour, because the encumbrance slows down regeneration so much.
I know I can get buffed etc etc, but it would be nice not to need buffs, and I'm certain that's possible.
There are plenty of fencers out there who fight without armour, and I know they have a reason.
I have been fighting pikets without buffs or food. If I don't use any specials I can kill them quite easily, only having to use /healdamage self occasionally when there are more than one of them.
My questions was really to try and find out why a lot of fencers don't use armour. There must be an advantage to it in some way. Maybe, if I bump my secondary stats up even more, and I get to master fencer with all the defence skills, then I just won't need armour because my stats will regenerate fast enough? Maybe I'm better off without armour, because the encumbrance slows down regeneration so much.
I know I can get buffed etc etc, but it would be nice not to need buffs, and I'm certain that's possible.
There are plenty of fencers out there who fight without armour, and I know they have a reason.
Eifodvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:10 am
#6
Another reason I don't want to wear armour, is there's no armour which looks nice!
Willowywicca
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:37 am
#7
If I'm unbuffed I don't use armor simply because the increased special costs are much more than any dmg prevented by wearing the armor, since I'd rarely get hit..
If I'm buffed.. I usually cba with wearing armor either, since it costs money to repair/replace lol ^^ I'd only wear armor when pvping, or doing high end pve.
Eifodvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:44 am
#8
So armour increases the HAM cost of specials! I have noticed that specials bring my HAM right down. I'll have to do some experimentation with that.
What about CoB? I've found that my CoB macro brings my action bar down so fast that I might as well be getting hit. I've noticed that I am indeed better off without it. Is the action cost of CoB increased by armour too?
Thanks
What about CoB? I've found that my CoB macro brings my action bar down so fast that I might as well be getting hit. I've noticed that I am indeed better off without it. Is the action cost of CoB increased by armour too?
Thanks
Willowywicca
Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:04 am
#9
all abilities (specials, warcry, cob, burst run.. etc) have their ham cost decided by a base amount (either based on the ability you're doing, or on the ham costs of the weapon)which is multiplied by the your second stats... the higher your secondary stats the lower the ham costs..
If your secondaries (Strength , Focus and the first of the Action secondaries (can't rem which it is lol.. Stamina?) are above 1500 there will be zero cost to your hams for all specials.. some abilities I think require a slightly higher amount of 2ndary stats to be ham-free.. (think burst run still cost like -1 action whilst all my specials were cost free one time...)
Armor lowers your secondary stats, hence specials cost more...
Personally I've found that with longest duration CoB and all my stat pts into my secondaries (I'm a lowly mon calamarian too so my 2ndary stat limits are pretty crappy.. something like 500 str/400 con/550 stamina/ 450 quick/850 focus/600willpower ) I regen barely more ham than I lose by chain-using CoB... generally tho I only use cob once at the very start of the fight if Im unbuffed.. then I see how it's going to decide if I'm going to need to use it again..
Oh and as a side note, HAM costs of vibroknuckles while in full armor using unarmed hit 3 is pretty damn funny ^^ it was -240ham every second lol 
JerYnkFan
Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:36 pm
#10
I get buffs and pop a couple of brandies and I can spam any AOE attack till the cows come home while wearing 78% composite armor.
Eifodvi
Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:12 am
#12
The problem with relying on buffs is that you're lost when you're in the middle of nowhere on a hunt or a quest with your mates, then you get killed & your buffs are gone.
What do you do?
Either you fight without buffs or you ask your friends to wait a possible 50 minutes while you go get buffed. I say 50 minutes because this is the length of two shuttle trips & a queue at the doctors.
If you don't develop a technique that will hold you up in combat without buffs, then you're lost when the buffs are gone.
I'm migrating my stats now to max out my secondaries, then I'll try fighting pikets without armour, buffs or spice. I was fighting sharnaffs last night without armour and only pixie & 1 brandy. I was only having to heal myself once per naff and CoB didn't bring my action down any faster than my health was going down.
I found I could even hold my own against three at once.
What do you do?
Either you fight without buffs or you ask your friends to wait a possible 50 minutes while you go get buffed. I say 50 minutes because this is the length of two shuttle trips & a queue at the doctors.
If you don't develop a technique that will hold you up in combat without buffs, then you're lost when the buffs are gone.
I'm migrating my stats now to max out my secondaries, then I'll try fighting pikets without armour, buffs or spice. I was fighting sharnaffs last night without armour and only pixie & 1 brandy. I was only having to heal myself once per naff and CoB didn't bring my action down any faster than my health was going down.
I found I could even hold my own against three at once.
Willowywicca
Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:55 am
#13
What is this "get killed" you speak of? I do not understand! 
More seriously.. as a buffed fencer.. if you're fighting stuff that you *can* actually die against then there's only 2 possible situations, 1) you really really really know nothing of how to play your class and should give up now.. or 2) You are fighting extremely high-end creatures, in which case you should have a doctor *in group* with you since you need the healing for this.. and so they'll be right there to rebuff you without a 50 min trip should you happen to die.. if you're fighting the kind of stuff that can kill a buffed fencer regularily, and there's no doctor in your group.. everyone else in the group is gonna be dead too and they're all gonna need to get rebuffed also.. 
As a fencer you should always be one of the last to die simply because your defence is much better than pretty much anyone else, so really the situation you describe simply won't happen... also don't forget that while buffed you can probably wear armor whilst still having low/none ham costs on specials, so while buffed you can happily wear your 80% comp armor.. only nightsisters elders, the new 200k ham tuskens etc will be able to kill you 
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