Fencer Archive
Thread: Revamped Fencer Role
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Minerunner
Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:41 pm
#1
Lets start by defining simplified aspects of every profession interactions.
Accuracy = Obvious
Resistance= Damage taken versus damage dealt (Armor for example)
Avoidance = Not getting hit at all.
DPS=How much punch does a profession have.
From what the other Correspondents have suggested as their professions view of their role here is what I came up with as an interim suggestion.
for a numerical breakdown in a scale of one to ten.
Accuracy : 5-6
Resistance : 1-2
Avoidance : 9-10
DPS : 2-3
In One on One combat Fencers should be defined by "death of a thousand cuts"... low damage and mid range accuracy, very hard to be hit but when hit it should hurt like the dickens.
In Large scale combat, Fencers should basically be hit and run tacticians... a good example would be as a line of blockers for a rush of Commandos
Commandos have to get close to do damage but will likely be reletivly easy to hit given that they do massive damage... so a well oiled team would send a few Fencers ahead to draw fire and confuse the enemyas Commando's follow them up with a hard hitting barrage.
A nice way of putting it is...
Fencers should likely survive a group of attackers for a short while but the law of averages dictates that the longer they stay in the killing zone of a group the more likely it is for them to be slaughtered quickly.
But if given the proper support, like a combat medic or Doctor who was focused on keeping them alive, they could make decent tanks even though they will over time take a large ammount of damage even if by only a few hits.
This melds what seems to be the overall vision of Fencers with the vision other correspondents have of their classes.
Thror
Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:52 pm
#3
We should be a bit more accurate than average I think, and we should have greater difficulty at avoiding damage as more and more opponents focus attacks against us (multi-tanking should be more of a Pikeman's line of work).
But one on one a fencer should be very frustrating to his enemy, extremely difficult to hit, and adept at wearing down an opponent's defenses. In short, I view our role more as duelists, assassins, and point men than as skirmishers. But I may be in the minority.
My (revised) numerical list. Please excuse the obvious pretension in my doing so... 
Accuracy: 7-8
Resistence: 1-2
Avoidance(1on1): 9-10
Avoidance(multi..3+?): 5-6
DPS: 2-3
Message Edited by Thror on 07-16-2004 08:58 PM
Minerunner
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:41 pm
#4
Law of Averages makes Multi opponant avoidance the way you wish.
10% per attack missed equals 20% the next try... the fifth attack someone would have would be a 50/50 Probability.
Or if 5 people attack at once there is a 50/50 chance for one of those to be a hit every attempt.
With regards to accuracy our speed and state effects should make up for that average deficiency. There WILL be a variation in speed between professions instead of them all hitting once a second.
Thror
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:33 pm
#5
Good point Minerunner. Math and quantatative logic aren't my strong suit so I just didn't see it that way to begin with. I stand by my view of our role though. I like us better as a 1on1 specialist than as the goto guy that holds the line. I just feel that a Pikeman fits better into that role.
Daigoro202
Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:14 am
#6
These numbers should be useful, I'd like to see how the other professions fall in this scale. It really illustrates costs vs. benefits for the professions.
I think one way of looking at it is that costs or risks(usually associated with doing higher damage) should notbe completely neutralized by things like buffs and armor. Likewise,benefits like avoidance, should not be neutralized, such as the way high end PvE opponents cannot miss.
One question though, should this scale take into account special functionality like status effects? For example, if you consistently blind whenever possible, the fight does not follow the same numbers. I think the ability to perform status effects should work into the costs and benefits of a profession choice.
Thror wrote:
But one on one a fencer should be very frustrating to his enemy, extremely difficult to hit, and adept at wearing down an opponent's defenses. In short, I view our role more as duelists, assassins, and point men than as skirmishers. But I may be in the minority.
I don't disagree with this view. I tend to see fencing and TK as the personal combat forms, whereas swordsmen and pikemen are morelikestraightforward militaryroles. A TKA is morelike a mystical, traditional martial artist, the fencer is more associated with urban combat, streetfighting, or close quarter battle.
I'm not sure how much this role revamp effort relates to GCW, but I think some battle content to reflect the close quarter professions,like fencerand pistol would be appropriate. I don't think every battle needs to be on an outdoorbattlefield-- GCW encounters can be fought indoors, underground, or in tight urban scenarios where the longer range professions aren't at their ideal range, unable to face targets on an open field, and unable to kite.With this in mind,a bunker or a city under siege that had the same functionality as the player battlefields would be interesting and would require players to adapt and make different choices.
Rizzaka
Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:01 am
#7
Minerunner wrote:
There WILL be a variation in speed between professions instead of them all hitting once a second.
Ya know its more of an *IF* the combat balance comes out at this point than a WHEN.
I agree that we should adept at doing a 1on1 fight and fall fairly fast against large numbers. As it is now i can take on the whole tusken village (not the fort) if they are all attacking me but i can't for the life of me go toe to toe with an observer, a little screwy there.
Damage avoidance and defense is what truely defines our prof. as it allows us to do the "kill by cuts" as you so put it. We need to be quick and agile but by no means gods.
But yeah this is a pretty good summary of the prof.
Awon
Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:21 am
#8
I agree with every thing except i think our accuracy should be around 8 with only like tka having more acuracy than us because most one-handed combat is based on speed/percision. (forgive me if thats the wronge spelling)
StrykerXP
Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:53 am
#9
I agree, it only makes sense. The tusken raiders are a great example of hit and run fencers.
Stryke <SAS>
Tymothi
Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:05 pm
#10
I like Minerunner's numbers, though I do agree that the accuracy should be a bit more, but what happens if we get intimidated or stunned? As it is now our damage goes to crap when we get intimidated and our defenses go to crap when we get stunned. I don't know how things will work out when the revamp comes but could you stress the importance of defenses and damage not being comprimised by status effects? As it stands now def vs. etc doesn't really do crap when your opponent can spam status effects until they stick. When they impliment the combat pool that gets depleted when you use specials I think spamming will stop which should put a big emphasis on def vs. etc but who knows.
Straker_Atrella
Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:51 pm
#11
I think your resistance is to low. Make it average, like 5-6. Otherwise we wont be able to Tank in PVE, you don't want 2 lucky hits to drop you.
I think of it like this 5-6 is average. If you have a 9-10, it should be countered by a 1-2.
Our avoidance is already countered by our low dps. We don't need to have glass jaws as well.
Minerunner
Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:15 am
#12
Couple things... obviously if the defense is high but resistance is low you excell in one on one combat.
In PVE you should theoretically have a group backing you up (even if it is just a healer) if you are takeing on things that Should kill you... like Nightsister Elders... If so they should be by virtue of healing you keep you from dying after 2 hits.
Ideally in massive combat I'd have "the line" be the Swordsmen/Pikemen dukeing it out against the opposing line with say 2 Fencers leading a flank charge of a couple commandos and a combat medic.
The Secondary line would defend against that and support "The Line"...
Now we enter a realm of useing strategy... and I like strategy.
With the support of a combat medic that flank charge wouldn't expect to die in 2 hits... if the medic keeps on the ball.
It all rolls into a balance of effectivness and roles... it seems like for the most part we're on the same page for Fencer's Role, and the numbers are negotiable and will in manners be discussed at an absurd length with the other correspondents.
As to a 5-6 balance... sorry I forgot to place Speed as a firm catagory...
Fencer Speed : 9-10
Which was why our damage and our resistance are low.
As to the combat revamp...
SOE wouldn't be looking at spending probably $30,000 on a few players going out to Austin for 3 days to discuss it if they wern't serious about it.
CB is comeing, and the Devs are putting time into makeing temporary fixes... we're just trying to give them viable options at this point as everyone was focused on the big changes... we're trying to refocus on the little things.
Neige
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:46 am
#13
call me cynical, but 30 000 $ isn't anything awesome. there must have easily been ten times this sum thrown out in marketing for SWG (price of a E3 stand, anyone ?).
As always, the real information is not the number, it's where the accountant fill it in: communication & marketingOR research & developpement.
i'm taking bets on this /mood evilgrin
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