Fencer Archive
Thread: Molecular-tipped knives
I have been thinking something new (like everyone else in the forum). Our clear problem is our inability to effectively counter high AP mobs. It is becoming very likely to meet high kinetic and moderate stun resistances. In such case, we all know we might as well pick the cheapest weapon and pick up a book to read. Everyone here will agree to a new weapon. We never got a new weapon and our SPECIAL blade is a quest item and it ... leaks.
I read somewhere long time ago, but Aleuts use a glass pointed weapons. They chip a chunk of glass to create very sharp edged knives. The chipped glass form molecular level edges. This technology is well known before the BRONZE age whence obsidian was used. The pre-bronze age obsidian weapons are known to cut so deep even through the bones. IF USED CORRECTLY (UNDER LABORATORY ENVIRONMENT) can penetrate certain modern armor we have today. (I AIN'T gonna tell you which one) Perhaps we may consider Medium or even Heavy Armor Penetration. (Dont worry you are gonna have hard time killing MedAP-80%-to-all mobs like crystal hunters)
Considering the technology level of starwars, we can realistically have some high-tech version of glass knives. Plasma fusing gemstones and a little bit of metal to help with brittle glass. Once amorphous chunk is formed, a weaponsmith can chip it to make a blade. (It should be done with a one crafting process considering ... primitive nature of the weapon. But it may be FUN to have chipping tools.)
Of course there are problems with this type of blades. They are brittle. Whatever the way you do it, glass is never going to have the resilience of metals. So the durability is something like 250/250 or even 100/100. Note also this should be master certified weapon. The poor use of this weapon will clearly break the edge before damaging the intended target. We must compensate also with damage level. It should NEVER have min damage over 100 or max damge over 200. This will make Jedi and TKA WHIN ALL DAY.
On the personal note, if I get this weapon, I think I am going to change my profession so I can be a master weaponsmith on top of Mfencer. I can chip myself some blades while out in the wilderness. I get tingles thinking about this doing this around the camp fire. ... The ad-hoc-ness of the weapon is very attractive too.
Q
I agree that it's a good idea, as I did in the other thread in which this idea was first posted. In the SW world, where primitive and advanced cultures clash, I think it really fits in. It fits in better than rancor teeth.
I'm hopingthat during thecombat balance they will scale back the armor level of the high-end mobs, so we won't need AP2 or 3 as much as we seem to now. But I think the idea of a glass/molecular-edge blade is a worthy one. Beyond game balance, it seems like it would be fitting that it have high AP, even if the damage and condition were very low.
It's too bad that in this game, balance means that no conceivable weapon that can be held in one hand can have AP2, even in a world with cloning, faster than light travel, etc. I understand the need for balance, but it's regrettable how it can limit the ability to tell stories and populate the game world with interesting items that would otherwise ring true within that world.
I think it is still a good idea. It is not going to be a weapon for all things. Especially with durability so low 250/250 or even 100/100. It is extremely poor every time I meet a worthy opponent, I have to swap to swordsman because otherwise I can't do any damage But I can stand there NOT getting hit for hours! I could pick up a magazine and not worry a second.
DE-10 is an extremely powerful weapon. It has very very high damage. Bit slow, but people cap speed anyways. What make this glass knife different is that its durability is extremely low. I think you simply cannot "grind" with this weapon. I want this weapon to last for 2-4 force crystal hunters before breaking. (or 2 duels) This will be the LAST option for a MASTER fencer. (Novice can deal with critters ...
)Also, we might also like to add another restriction. You can't slice a glass knife. Who would want to anyway? The thing will break so fast. And, I dont think we don't need damage advantage to begin with. What we need is AP-capability. Damage should be the same as a vibroblade (unsliced).
I think with these limitations, we can safely assume that we won't have a mass of fencers running around with glass knives. You need lots of these if it is your primary. Also, you will need a good weaponsmith friends. You can be your own weaponsmith, but this will mean you can't be defense-stacker anymore. Which is GOOD since def-stacking is LAME. (But personally the cool-ness of chiping glass knives around a camp fire beats all the negatives ... I am a camp freak.)
Qui'lu of Chilastra
P.S. Combat revamp ... yeah. I agree with you Daigoro.
Good point about obsidian and about vibroblades. I know the mesoamerican equivalent of a sword was actually many pieces of obsidian, like axe-heads, lined up together, so there was no thrust. However, there were obsidian spearheads and arrowheads, so presumably they can be used for piercing-- at least once.
In the previous post where Digital first proposed this, I commented that SWG takes a lot of creative license when it comes to material science. Rancor teeth, bile drenched rancor teeth. My suggestion would be that they let the blades have AP1+ and have the ability to cut or thrust, I think the low condition would be enough to reflect their brittleness.
I actually think it doesn't even need to be obsidian or share all the properties of obsidian, the interesting thing about this idea is that it would use both the primitive and advanced technology that we see in the SW universe.
The vibro concept seems to be a catchall for authors-- if you are writing about space pirates you have a vibrocutlass, a classic duelist would use a vibrorapier, and so on. In the SW time period-- I would think more of our weapons should be vibroweapons. Items like the Ryyk, and the Gaderiffi are weapons of cultural significance, but the actual staples of modern combat would be vibroweapons and the stun baton.
I would prefer it if the vibroblade we have now were actually just the all-around knife that anyone might carry as a tool. If you were going camping or fishing you would carry one. But you would have to be at least a novice one-handed fighter to know how to use it in combat. Its low AP was due to a small blade profile that could cut armor, but just not very deep. From there, they could branch out with more effective kinds in the future-- daggers, combat knives, swords, etc.
Oraion wrote:Very awsome idea but theres one thintg i dont agree with like you said that in the technological age that were in the game i dont see a reason to have the weapon be brittle
I understand your concern. However, you must realize that what we are trying to establish here is to have an weapon which will not be FoTM. Thus it can be implemented WITHOUT serious inbalance.
Qui'lu of Chilastra
Brainplay wrote:Obsidian blades are the same thing as stone knives only made out of obsidian. The weapon itself is very bittle, rarely have a point, and was used mainly for hunting game or skinning such game. There were limited uses for combat back then since they really didn't have anyone to fight.Surgical quality extra fine edges can cut through modern armor. Unfortunately modern armor is fiberous and is susceptible to ALL forms of cutting (i.e. kevlar) although recent advances have made it much more difficult and in some cases impossible for an edged weapon to defeat them. Stick a metal plate in any fiberous armor and an obsidian blade will nick the cloth covering and shatter.Then along come "vibro" weapons. Weapons with all metal blades sharpened to razor fine degrees but still retaining incredible toughness. Still limited to the weight/power ration determining the cutting power vs. SWGmodern hard carpace armor. Turn on the vibro portion and the blade goes from being just a blade to effectively what is a chainsaw that moves so fast that you cant see it. Able to make hundreds of thousands of up, down, side to side cutting motions in a split second. Able to wear away at hard plated structures and armor and opening up a tear in such plating.You gotta admit, the vibroblade fall short of what a vibro weapon is supposed to really be like.
Keorythe -
You have a good point. That is precisely the reason why I put "used correctly UNDER LABORATORY ENVIRONMENT." However, let us assume that some thing is done to improve that.
I also understand your desire for a vibrorapier. (You must realize this is equally unrealistic.) HOWEVER!!!! I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ONE MYSELF!!!! (So don't get me wrong there)
I kinda like this glass knife idea because it will probably consist of gem-like material and little bit of metal. It will not contain Uber Loots such as Krayt Tissue, Geo Core, Acklay Bones which tend to give a weapon significantly high damage. Considering the fact that we are requesting high armor piercing capability, we should NOT leave a space for NERFAGE. We should make sure the damage of this weapon stays reasonably low to keep balance.
Lastly, I am still convinced that this weapon should have low durablity. Not because of "glass" shatter, but because we want to absolutely make sure that this weapon will not be a FoTM weapon. It should be pulled out under extremely situations. Keeping it low will make sure we do not use it as our primary. Also, this will encourage fencers to go into crafting profession and not just TKA/Swordsman/Pikeman or other combat profs. (Which I am sure SOE bunch want to promote as well.)
I am trying to come up with something so EVERYONE is happy. That includes the developers and CSR. Please if you have anything to add, dont hesitate to post.
Qui'lu of Chilastra
P.S. Lets keep it civil people. I would like to keep the forum FUN, and not a place for personal grudges. Thank you!