Fencer Archive

• Given the current situation with the 'DOT' title we've attained would you consider the system for bleeds is adequate?


• Regarding the Combat Upgrade weapons... what are your stances/ideas in regards?


• Abilities:




• Do you find them a viable special?


• Do you think they need to be 'beefed' up?


• Do you think they need to be 'toned' down?


• Bleeding Specials:




• Adequate source of damage output?


• What are some numbers you'd like to see in regard to the Bleeding specials?


• Armor Certifications




• Are the adequate for the profession to be a viable combat role without using dual mastery?


• What are your recommendations for future armor types/protection/style?


• Should fencers have to wear armor?


• Weapon Certifications:




• Are you satisfied as a community with what has been developed?


• What would you like to see in the future?

These are a few topics I had in mind when I asked myself what the community wanted... In all honesty, besides what has been said about the bleeds, I don't know. So, please, if you wouldn't mind... leaving your input. And remember: there is no wrong response... If you feel you want something speak it up!

Message Edited by kAotiC_HeRo on 04-26-2005 09:09 PM

• Scatter Hit & Bleed Hits Inadequate




• Scatter hit has no 'real' damage


• Does NOT hit multiple locations


• Bleed attacks are futile at best


• Damage beyond Initial Bleeding attacks is lacking


• Fencer's Crowd Control is lacking 'more beef'


• Speed & Damage are at balance levels (according to roles)


• Cripple attack needs more duration


• Blind attacks are unrealistic and unbalanced


• Rescue in groups is impossible because of removal




• /Taunt


• /Taunt2


• Master Brawler as issues with worth


• Viable alternatives to Master brawler increase:




• Defenses


• Accuracy


• Viable alternatives to Master brawler decreases:




• Speed


• Polearms Specialization is useless to Fencers (except Fencer/Pikeman builds)




• Basically useless for Master Brawler


• Can be afforded more useful skills if dropped/used elsewhere


• MASTER BRAWLER is NOT worth the SP for use with Fencer

Did I miss anything or confuse it at all for you?

Yeah...
But we should keep our eyes on the scatter hit and bleed attack variants. It is not easy to prove but it seems there is no point to either of them.
Scatter hit does deal a little damage but not much. I cannot remember damage being applied several times by it to hit several locations. And even if this would make no sense against an NPC, but only against players who are only partially armored. Which is not often the case.
Bleed attack does not deal any damage beyond the initial. It might stop the victim from recovering health, which is hard to figure out due to the health display bugs (last week, didn't try this week). But actually, I don't think so.

Given the defenition statements in the CU concept documentation I really don't know what kind of area damage we deal, as was implied by the notes there. We do not have an area attack.

As a matter of fact, from my experience, fencer deal a horrible load of damage. Our weapons are good and our speed is high. That's true. A pikeman or Teras Kasi cannot keep up with us. But still I wonder where our crowd control abilities are. Yeah cripple attack is helpful, but it doesn't last for long enough to really make a difference.
The blind attacks are indeed helpful, but I cannot see in how it makes be able to control a crowd. I'd rather count it as defensive ability.

With the new aggro system and /taunt severly nerfed, I can think of no way to keep an enemy, not to mention several enemies, from engaging a ranged combatant in close combatant. Right now (before CU) my abilities are way better, simply using master brawlers /taunt2.

Another problem I see is not so much a fencer, but a brawler problem. Master brawler might be a nice addition for someone who has two melee masters, but it is definately worth less than the boxes you could buy in another profession for the points. In fact, having the three professions Teras Kasi, Swordsman/maid and Fencer is worth more than being master brawler.
So if you are already master Fencer / master TK, the most helpful choice would be to invest the rest of points into Swordsman/maid.
Unfortunately I do not have the nescassary data to prove this statement, I can only explain what I did with my template.

Originally I am master fencer / master brawler (and master dancer which gives me additional 7 on both melee and ranged defense). Dropping the polearms branch (which gives me nothing at all for the 14 skill points it is worth) and master brawler eneabled me to pick up swordsman 0022 (cost is 4 points higher however, I had the advantage of having these four points available). In effect my defenses are far better and so is my accuracy. My speed is a little worse, but given the accuracy advantage and the fact that we are already quite fast I can live with that.
I get improved armor break, improved leg sweep and sword flurry. Three helpful abilities instead of the two I'd get for bralwer. And seriously, I remember the attack reposte stance being quite alright, but I even can't remember the other special.

All in all the calculation is simple. Drop master bralwer and a single branch from brawler eneables you to by novice and a single branch from another profession, which is worth far more.

IMHO at least the boni on accuracy, melee defense and ranged defense for master brawler must be 15 points higher each at least. That's reasonable keeping in mind that the actual cost for master brawler is 20 SP, not just 6. And it would not make master brawler better than alternate choices, it would make it make it closer to the alternatives.

hm.
You could put it like that.
Most of this are brawler, not fencer concerns however. And I am not sure about the scatter hit thingy. I am just concerned about it.

Scatter hits DO real damage. But not as much to really explain its purpose. It would be interesting to try out how good they are against a player with partial armor. But I doubt that would make a difference.

Speed and damage are ok as far as I am concerned. We deal a hell of damage if we really want to. Problem is I don't really know how speed works now.

Blind attacks are all right on their own, but they are defensive, not crowd control. When I mentioned them I was looking where our crowd control things might be. If they were in dact intended to be a crowd control ability, they should be replaced.

The fact that my alternative to master brawler decreases speed is not a problem. It is my choice. I could have picked another alternative.

About "polearms specialisation is useless to fencer".. hm. I meant the forth branch you take is useless. No matter wether this is polearms or two handed. Simply because you already have all specials there then.

To clarify, my major concern about fencer is that

• The bleed attacks don't work, or virtually not at least. It is a really low level skill without advanced sister skill even higher. If it is so defining for us to deal DOT it should better work and not be available to anyone in full extend who has one box within fencer.


• Our crowd controll abilities are not really worth mentioning


• Cripple attack needs more duration to be helpful


• It is unclear wether scatter hit hits multiple hit locations, the scatter hit shows no evidence for this, nor would this be really helpful in combat, even if it worked


• Creatures and NPCs who are knocked down recover faster than any player could. Every single creature and NPC seems to be able to be able to recover from knockdown immediatly. (Sometimes this leads to some strange graphical bugs, since the creature is still animated lying but actually moving and attacking)


• The innitial documents about CU stated that we would have area attack abilities, which helped us in both "crowd control" and "offense". In fact, we don't.


• Binding strikes are not helpful in PvE (due to the extreme amount of action NPCs and creatures have) and rarely in PvP (Only in a situation when you expect your enemy to survive longer than two minutes or so).

My brawler concerns were:

• Master Brawler isn't worth the skill points one needs except if you already have ALL FOUR branches for another reason.


• Due to the new aggro system taunt isn't helpful anymore. That weekens the overall crowd controll abilities of all brawlers. (It might therefor be intended however)


• A player who has already three branches from brawler does not gain any advantage of the forth.

Additionally I got one overall concern:

• The promise that the right choice of weapon would be a tactical decision has not been fullfilled.
  Depending on the actual character template either stun baton or acid sword is always the best choice. There is no tactical situation that could make an RSF sword keep up with a stun baton. In other words: The new weapons (except acid sword) are nice but no-one will use them, except for grinding.

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 04-27-2005 10:05 PM

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 04-27-2005 10:14 PM

I don't belive ourDoT is nearly as strong as it should be. the other dots you can get in other trees are just as good if not better. top it off with the fact we only get 1 bleed attack.What i would suggest is that

our we be given 1 dedicated bleed and a back up bleed. our dedicated right now does around 80-150 dmg depending on the target now if you double that i think the dedicated would be fine. now ad a secondbleed that stacks with the first bleed. your support bleed should be 50-100 in dmg but have twice the duration as your primary bleed.

THe CU weapons are awsome. im looking forward to when they do the crafter passes later this year and add a few more weapons. I would like to see a

Rapier / Foil: at some point, dont give it massive dps but give it weapon based dot that stacks or works with our dot's.
Shamshir: these are the curved type swords you see wielded by arabic warriors. it could easilly have similar dps to a curved sword and howver let it cuase a 5sec stun
Proto-saber: these are thing i have read about over the years as a SW GM in PnP games. Its the bases of todays Lightssabers. it is simlar to a raper but energy flows from the hilt to the tip like and LS. Due to the power it requires there is a cable drawing enery froma back pack. These weaponsare as old as the republic and very very few exist, even less then the number of jedi at this time period.

Abilities:

• They are pretty good. and very fast
  
• yea just a little as far asbleed and scatter shot go
  
• no definatly not, i have problems killing things more then a lvl higher then me, i have alot of problems killing 2 white cons solo
  
• Bleeding Specials:
  
  
  
  • the dmg is fine however the DoT fails
    
  • answered above

Armor Certifications

no chance. not with lvl 80 creatures having a bonus to-hit and dmg. if you stay close to your lvl or find a group you will do fine with the current armor

I would like to seesomething like:
plasteel armor suit. similar to the fencer suits of today but made of a durable plastic.
Armor Clothing. Things like the renforced pants and shirt's should offer us some resistanse so you don't have to wear a full suit of armor

yes the should definately wear armor, but like i said we should beable to get armor bonus's in certian clothing so we don't have to wear a full suit all the time

Weapon Certifications:

• I love the certs so far.
  
• I would like to see more master fencer lvl weapons , that way we are rewarded for our dedication to the class and not for dabbling

I would give my left arm (and have it replaced by an cybernetic one ) to have that protosaber thing sounds so hot.

My personal suggestion to make the different swords more helpful is to just add a high innitiate accuracy bonus to them. The interface suggests that this was somehow the intention, but I don't see it.

I would consider using an RSF sword rather than an acid sword or stun baton if it had a fifteen or twenty point accuracy bonus. (If I knew how to get one that is, not sure wether AS can craft them.)

---

MaxPhoenix wrote:
i have alot of problems killing 2 white cons solo

I believe it is supposed to be that way. White means that they are just as strong as you are. Two of them means that you have to face twice what you can do at once.