Fencer Archive
Thread: Fencer vs. TKA the ultimate question.
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ZevMandara
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:03 am
#1
I must say, I'm writing this post to show how appreciative I am of the work done with Fencer. I recently tried it out and became hooked. Not only was it a fresh change from varying ranged professions - it actually had a lot going for that no one gives it credit for. Though a pure fencer may never match up to a Teras Kasi Artist, I've seen fencers absolutely dominate the PVE world - and the PVP world. Here's what I see that makes Fencer the absolute rival to TKA in terms of sheer power.
Dodge - Alright, you get some insane dodge. The fencer is all about footwork and finesse after all, so I completely agree with this one. The fencer is the single most light-footed fighter in the game.
Melee and Ranged Defense - Only TKA gives similar amounts to this mod. The stances and grips discipline gives a large amount to both defensive attributes - about +75 per. Not even the ranged professions give this sort of balanced ranged defense.
Speed - A fencer is bloody fast with a weapon - it doesnt take long to get killin'.
However, there are a few balance problems I see. TKA is sheer overpowering next to anyone, and here's a few reasons why I think Fencer is second rate to it.
Knockdown - You must first master brawler to get a knockdown for the fencer profession. In addition to this, a TKA has siginificant speed mods that make a Fencer's weapon seemingly useless. A Knockdown 2, a couple combo hits, you're out for the count.
Damage Modifiers - The TKA gets damage modifiers, regardless if they're wearing vibros or not. The fencer's attacks are powerful, but a Fencer must first have an acceptable weapon if they plan to do anything against a TKA. Even if they get a damaging one, (gaffi stick, for example), the damage rates tend to be second rate next to speed.
Meditation - I am a fencer TKA, and I am going to say it before it all happens - NERF MEDITATION. A TKA with Fencer can completely unbalance how the fight goes. With power boost and force of will, a TKA can adjust his/her mods to outmatch any fencer. Though meditation is a nice thing to have - something has to give with it.
The Teras Kasi and Fencer professions are both artistic in designs, yet I think a few changes need to be made for the sake of balancing the game. There are too many TKAs out there that simply DOMINATE PvP, and that just doesn't seem right. Something has to happen to keep those TKA-ers in check, and I think fencer of all professions should be that one. Anyone else got any ideas? I would love to hear them in counterperspective.
Guddy
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:45 am
#2
I believe your statement that a teras kasi can adjust his or her mods so they can beat any fencer is wrong. I've dueled my fair share of teras kasi and have yet to find one that beats more more than i beat them.
ZevMandara wrote:
Meditation - I am a fencer TKA, and I am going to say it before it all happens - NERF MEDITATION. A TKA with Fencer can completely unbalance how the fight goes. With power boost and force of will, a TKA can adjust his/her mods to outmatch any fencer. Though meditation is a nice thing to have - something has to give with it.
Guddy
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:53 am
#3
Also you said alot of Teras Kasi dominate player Vs player hehe
the only profession that truley dominates player Vs player is a rifleman *shudders* especially with the jawa ion rifle because it cuts straight through stun layers, however Teras Kasi do come a close second i would say. Even then the uber templates beat them all.
the only profession that truley dominates player Vs player is a rifleman *shudders* especially with the jawa ion rifle because it cuts straight through stun layers, however Teras Kasi do come a close second i would say. Even then the uber templates beat them all.Fencer keeping Teras Kasi in check i dont think thats right no profession should have the power to stop another regardless except Jedi.
Dodge is very nice yes but your overpowered view of Teras Kasi would be even more so if defensive acuity works as intended(im pritty sure the devshave confirmed it does nt work correctly)
Speed now i think Fencer should hit the speed cap aswell as Teras Kasi because Fencer use light weapons and Teras Kasi use knucklers or no weapons.
Knockdown now i think Fencer should not get a knockdown move unless mastering brawler, Teras Kasi get this skill and it sets them apart from other melee.
Melee and Ranged Defense should be highfor both i believe the current level is about right.
Coastromo
Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:43 am
#4
ZevMandara wrote:
Meditation - I am a fencer TKA, and I am going to say it before it all happens - NERF MEDITATION. A TKA with Fencer can completely unbalance how the fight goes. With power boost and force of will, a TKA can adjust his/her mods to outmatch any fencer. Though meditation is a nice thing to have - something has to give with it.
The Teras Kasi and Fencer professions are both artistic in designs, yet I think a few changes need to be made for the sake of balancing the game. There are too many TKAs out there that simply DOMINATE PvP, and that just doesn't seem right. Something has to happen to keep those TKA-ers in check, and I think fencer of all professions should be that one. Anyone else got any ideas? I would love to hear them in counterperspective.
As my sig shows, I am both TKM and Blademaster. Powerboost is fine the way it is. You can manipulate your stats to maximize powerboost's effects, but at the cost of severly handicapping yourself when unboosted. It's a pretty rare duelist that will allow you time to boost beforehand, so in dueling anyway, stat manipulation is a detriment, not an advantage.
wong-fei-hung
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:22 am
#5
the way I have my stats laid out, powerboost simply adds insurance that I won't get a mind incap. I don't believe it needs to be nerfed, and while it can give you an edge, its not an end all be all guarantee. You can have the effect as KD though with Dizzy 2 and lunge. When they try to get back up, they'll fall, assuming the dizzy sticks.
Personally, I think it makes sense that fencer does not have an outright KD attack.
As a side not, without specials, I can outdamage my TKM abilities when using a powerhammer at Master Swordsman. With MindHit3 and the second mind bleed in Swordsman, I can outdamage what I would normally do with TKM any day (barring 100% blast resists naturally). But that effects PvE more than it does PvP /shrug
Personally, I think it makes sense that fencer does not have an outright KD attack.
As a side not, without specials, I can outdamage my TKM abilities when using a powerhammer at Master Swordsman. With MindHit3 and the second mind bleed in Swordsman, I can outdamage what I would normally do with TKM any day (barring 100% blast resists naturally). But that effects PvE more than it does PvP /shrug
SatansCircus
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:35 am
#6
Guddy wrote:
...the only profession that truley dominates player Vs player is a rifleman *shudders* especially with the jawa ion rifle because it cuts straight through stun layers,...
I don't know about that, I've run after rifleman who try to kite me and while they are running they can't hit a **edit** thing.
I don't know about dominating really, but the most unbalacing professions in PvP is combat medic. I've seen a single combat medic hold off a force of over 20 people with BS poison. They were right next to their cloning center so they just kept coming out and throwing more poison at as faster then out docs could heal us, and I dunno about you but I've never been too effective in a fight without mind.
viper777ma
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:37 am
#8
I personally am not a fan of the nerf solution to every problem. I do not agree with powerboost being nerfed at all, I think that it is indeed a nice insurance that I wont get amind incap, but it isnt something that is giving me an outrageous edge on my opponent. So I add an extra 500 to my HAM, that to me is just an edge, not a dominance. I am a TKM and just got novice fencer, I just want to see both sides, fighting with TKM and fencer so I will have more knowlage of fencers fighting soon. From my point of view however, one profession that I feel I could easily loose to, and indeed have, is fencer. Fencer and TK are balanced in my opinion and the nerf gun doesn't need to come out.
Harthe Cujao<nxtc> TKM/Novice Fencer
COLDFUSION11
Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:50 pm
#9
Hmm...I'd have to say that those are some pretty ridiculous solutions. First of all, pointing the nerf finger at meditation is not the right way to go. Secondly, what you were suggesting is that you make fencers stronger than tka's? and the only one stronger? so then every1 will flock to fencer? Did i miss something? You see it's really not that unbalanced for one thing, tka have only one method of attack which is kinetic damage while fencers have the ability to use stun damage which will go straight through armor, now what you're refering to is 100% dueling data from two unarmed warriors but i believe that a whole 10% of all pvp is dueling. Nerfing is never the solution. And if u think fencers have it bad, take a look at pikeman, ouch. Sure, it could be better, but it could be worse.
ZevMandara
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:29 pm
#11
I'm sorry about that, I had some popups on my computer. You're taking my words out of context - I'm not saying that the meditate is bad. I'm saying that it's that "edge" the pushes it over the limit. I'm not saying get rid of it. I'm saying balance it. That's all I'm saying.
Awon
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:11 pm
#12
TKA is the most powerful melee profession for sure followed by Swordsmen then fencer but i dont think they need to be nerfed at all. I really dont get where everyone is getting that fencers have insane dodge thing from every melee class can block/counterattack just as much as we dodge but tka/pikemen abilitys are broken. A swordsmen that dabbles into fencer and tka for the melee/range def would be able to counter attack just as much as any fencer dodges.
Vincentarasin
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:59 pm
#13
A, counterattack is broken.
B, a sword wil get owned by a fencer rightnow.
We attack 5000x faster for one.
They dont get a stun weapon (i dont think) so their "uber mind hit" aint so uber, -80% plus a1.
Dont know about sword, but I know the TKA COB is broken, with my center on, i would like to see someone hit me, now granite iv got the +25 bonus from tapes, but even still, without a scatter hit, im almost impossible to hit. Finally figured out how the guy on MY server was killing 3-5 ppl at once, sure nuff I hit the tapes, and i can dodge likethat too.
TKA isnt the most powerful meele profession eather.
I can beat a TKM with identical armors any day, without armors it is all in the warcry. Comon, fencers arnt ever down long, we get up and slap you if you try to KD us. All it takes is some Ubese, or in the extream, some composite, stick on A1 and 60% kinetic, a tkm can spam himself to death before I will die.
I go from taking 150dmg a spaz-flip-spin-kick-retard attack to MAYBE 30. Uhh, yeah with buffs, needless to say, i wont be dying. Give them armor, whoops we get stun damage, whats armor?
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