Fencer Archive
Thread: Stacking Special Defenses
Eeslik wrote:
Melee and ranged defense no longer stack... the super templates with 170 ranged defense are no longer unhittable.
No longer "unhittable" by what? An NPC that "used" to miss before the last patch perhaps?
Something most people are overlooking, is that the mobs were reworked on the last patch. In addition to larger HAMs and such, the higher-end mobs were also given additional Accuracy, too. With their much higher Accuracy you are going to get hit more often. This has given the appearance the Defense was nerfed, when it was Accuracy that changed.
Well, it depends on what you mean by "stacking," really.
Dodge never stacked with Counterattack or Block, or any other combination.
However there is the Dodge from Pistoleer and the Dodge from Fencer. In previous testing it was verified they do indeed stack (and confirmed by the devs). In recent testing (not as extensive, only a couple hours) it appears they still stack, but I am still working on getting a confirmation for this. The holidays seems to have slowed the devs' responses.
There is a common rumor (I say "rumor" due to the source or the rumor, but that doesn't mean I'm 100% sure it isn't true) that they no longer stack. The primary reason for this is that people that used to be nearly invulnerable due tostacked Pistoleer and Fencer Dodges are now getting hit. They over look an element of therecent patch that could just as easily be responsible for the change. This last patch upgraded higher end mobs significantly. Part of that change was a dramtic increase in their Accuracy. Since Accuracy is a factor checked hen you try to Dodge, a higher Accuracy means you will successfully Dodge less often. This could easily provide the illusion that Dodge was nerfed.
As soon as I get Developer confirmation, you guys will be the first to know.
I dueled a 4/4/4/3 Fencer/Master Pistoleer 10 minutes ago and guess what, even with my +205 Unarmed accuracy (I'm a TKM), she dodged about 70% of my hits... Naturally, I got my a$$ handed to me, but it was nonetheless fun...
As a sidenote, I've dueled a lot of Fencers before, including Blademasters, and they never ever dodged more than 20-30% of my hits.
Your dodge modifier is only applied when you are wielding a pistol or a one-handed weapon.
Your block modifier is only applied when you are wielding a polearm or a rifle. (Some people have reported that they were getting messages indicating a successful counterattack rather than a block when wielding a polearm).
Your counterattack modifier is only applied when you are wielding a two-handed weapon or a carbine.
Your defensive acuity modifier(Teras Kasi Aritsts) is only applied when you are fighting weaponless or with vibroknucklers.
All of the other defenses, like melee defense, defense versus dizzy, defense versus stun, knockdown defense... the full modifier is applied whether you received the bonus from Pistoleer and you're wielding a two-handedweapon or you're wielding a pistol.
Alrighty. Just that most posts in the pistoleer forum say the opposite: that fencer/pistol dodge no longer stacks, and that (for example) rifleman and pistoleer ranged defense no longer stacks. Some of them apparently performed some tests with a master pistoleer holding a fencing weapon with little or no fencing training. The results seen were that the dodges were MUCH less frequent than a master pistoleer holding a pistol. I'll see if I can find that post somewhere sometime.
The ranged defense template I was refering to was resulting in someone being almost unhittable in PvP (170+ ranged defense). Apparently these people are also not unhittable anymore, suggesting that ranged defense (and therefore melee defense) from different professions no longer stack.
Hence my question about special defensive mods (knockdown, posture change, etc). Just confused about the whole thing, as I've been getting MANY opinions on this.
If the Pistoleer and Fencer dodge bonuses no longer stack, it would certainly be nice if we could see this change in-game: Pistol Dodge, One-Handed Melee Dodge. Right now, if you are indeed correct, it's impossible to see.
My favorite is +100 D v KD, lmao.
I am worried about the combat rebalance though
-Air
Eeslik wrote:
Alrighty. Just that most posts in the pistoleer forum say the opposite: that fencer/pistol dodge no longer stacks, and that (for example) rifleman and pistoleer ranged defense no longer stacks. Some of them apparently performed some tests with a master pistoleer holding a fencing weapon with little or no fencing training. The results seen were that the dodges were MUCH less frequent than a master pistoleer holding a pistol. I'll see if I can find that post somewhere sometime.
The ranged defense template I was refering to was resulting in someone being almost unhittable in PvP (170+ ranged defense). Apparently these people are also not unhittable anymore, suggesting that ranged defense (and therefore melee defense) from different professions no longer stack.
Hence my question about special defensive mods (knockdown, posture change, etc). Just confused about the whole thing, as I've been getting MANY opinions on this.
I'll tell you, I've been trying to figure out for two weeks if they do or don't stack and I can't tell you yet for sure. That's really odd because you'd think that it would be really obvious that they either were stacking (you are the artful dodger) or they aren't (you are getting hit as much as someone without both professions). I can't tell as results are so variable from night to night.
One thing I can tell you for sure... I dodge an awful lot more as a pistoleer than as a fencer. I'm a master pistoleer and 1-3-4-4 as a fencer. Either the dodge modifier plays a less prominent role in the fencer equations than pistoleer, or they aren't completely stacking right. I can't even tell you that I'm dodging more as a pistoleer than I was before becoming fencer.
My guess would be that they are still stacking, but that something is messed up. You mightguess that there is some sort of invisible cap in there, but again, I dodge differently when I'm pistoleer than fencer so who knows.
Arghh, it is so complex I don't know how you can weed the stacking component out of all the other mods and values that are being factored in at the same time.
If it were such a huge and obvious advantage, would it not be easier for us to see in action? And an outsider getting his/her ass kicked by a master doesn't automoatically mean that it was due to stacked dodges either... give a little bit of credit to some of the masters out there.