Fencer Archive
Thread: All Fencers (and Devs) should read this are you missing out? Probably...
"Isn't it just like a (*pejorative racial slur edited*) to bring a knife to a gun fight?"
-The Untouchables
(Note, I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It's worth a read, though, and I tried to be as entertaining as possible. This is not a rant, and it's not a complaint. It's simply an explanation of why fencing no longer works for me, and what I've found, instead... It's a larger world out there, fencers, and in SWG, it's geared towards the gunslingers, sorry...)
I was a Fencer. In fact, I was thisclose to being a Master Fencer (some of you may have seen me running around Kettemoor). Yes, I've died countless times - those Durnis can be pretty tough on a sword-wielding Wookiee 10 times its size (That rabbit's got a vicious streak in it a mile wide!), but I kept trying. I learned the special moves, I got the good weapons (well, as good as I could get - the curved sword seemed to kill me before my opponents could, and the stun baton was just pathetic, so I was stuck with my trusty vibroblade), I even got a pet to try and help take some of the damage. Sometimes, the mobs would attack my pet, sometimes me. That's my fault, though, as I had to close to within range of their fuzzy ears in order to try and beat on them (oh, wait, that's what I HAVE to do, but I'm getting ahead of myself).
Anyway, I kept grinding away. That was a loooong process - I had to take on white cons, at best, or face a trek to the cloning tank. That limits the XP opportunities, of course. I did, though, have brief moments of fun - in the process of becoming a Rebel, I killed hundreds of Imp officers, even yellow cons, because of my prodigious skills. I could knock them down and whale on them while they were prostrate (KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!)
Strangely enough, I found that I was progressing through the ranks of Creature Handler much faster than that of Fencer. And, in a quest to be able to heal myself of the massive amounts of damage I was taking, as well as to stem the blood gushing, I also became a Master Medic. Why were those things a couple of weeks of secondary effort, whereas I had slavishly devoted myself to swordwork for two months?
Well, in the course of killing Imp MPCs, I thought it might be fun to kill some Imp PCs. Ooops. Yeah, they all carry blasters (well, the smart ones do, anyway). They knocked me down and shot out my eye with their Red Ryder BB-Guns before I could close the gap to try to slice their head off. A couple of times, I actually closed in, only to learn that they could run and shoot at the same time, while I, apparently, am incapable of running and swinging a sword simultaneously.
So, PvP was out. Well, that still left me Rebel destroy missions - I'm the king of killing NPC Imps, right? Um, well... At the lower levels, Imps are happy to fight you in your chosen medium. If you're a ranged weapon shooter, they're happy to plug away with you. If you like to go toe-to-toe, they'll whip out their weapon and slug it out. It seems that Scout Troopers and Storm Troopers, however, have no melee weapons, and have learned to kite with the best of them. So, once I levelled up enough to get Trooper missions, I found I was wearing myself out chasing them down, only to return to their camp to find more had taken their place.
Finally, SOE decided that fencers' only weapon was too powerful. So, imagine my surprise when I strolled up to an Imperial Colonel, opened him up with a Health Hit, and then dazzled him with my Dizzy / Lunge combo... AND NOTHING HAPPENED. Well, that's not exactly true. I got a lovely system message "Your attack failed to change your opponent's posture." Huh? Um, OK, let me try again... What do you mean I have to wait 30 seconds? Wow, those Imp Colonels sure are mean when they're bleeding to death - see you at the cloning tank, pets...
The final straw was when I decided to try and do the Rebel Theme Parks. I had completed the Corellian Rebel Base missions for Leia pre-patch, when I was able to enlist the aid of my pet Rancor, Cuddles. Now, though, I was sufficiently advanced in CH to have two Greater Sludge Panthers, so I figured between them and me, I'd be able to take care of myself on Lok to try and help Han save the galaxy.
I sent in the boys Pink and Purple (My Panthers - Pink, get it? Purple goes with Pink? Anyway...) to go take care of my target. Then, I eased in behind Pink's flank. At my maximum range of 5+ meters, I took my Health Hit shot. OOOPS. Sorry about that, didn't mean to make you so mad.
ONE HIT, DEAD
That's right. The target simply shrugged, turned to me, and killed me in one hit. **edit** am I supposed to do? I have to be that close in order to get any fencing XP at all! As I woke up in the cloning tank, I had an epiphany. I ran to the bazaar and picked up a CDEF pistol, and I have never looked back.
I made Novice Pistoleer in 4 HOURS! I was having a blast (literally)! Why? Because I could send in Pink and Purple to engage a target, hang back about 25 meters and plug away on mobs that con red to me, because they rarely lay a tooth or claw on me (when they do, it's interesting, but running circles around them while I blast them is actually great fun).
I finished Han's missions on Lok, no problem. And I learned something. The other planets are a lot of fun, but the monsters are just too tough for the melee fighters! I am able to solo a Kimogila now, for God's sake! I send in the boys and start firing. I have to take time out to go up and heal the pets, but when it's all over, I get 4,000 pistol XP and 1,800 CH XP for each pet.
Before you start whining "How much fun is that to just sit there and fire away" and "You're just ANOTHER pistoleer, you're one of the great unwashed, unstylish masses" I submit that you have never faced a Kimogila. It was SOOO much fun. And, I found a couple of hunters to chase down Giant Kimogilas with. Unbelieveable action! I have 6 DIFFERENT PISTOLS - all with different damage types, energy, stun, heat, kinetic, acid, etc. I have to analyze my targets to figure out their vulnerability. Fencers are limited to kinetic (when some monsters have 90% resistance to it) or stun (with a baton I couldn't knock a flea over with, let alone a Gubbur). I con them to figure out how many hit points they have, and how I have to fight them. How much healing I'll need for my pets, whether their pack mates will attack, etc.
THIS is what I joined SWG for, to run around and have fun, and yes, I am having much more fun now. I totally regret wasting all that time on fencing. This is not a knock on any of you, I loved the style and elegance of fencing, but if you can't solo a Kimogila, what chance do you have on Dantooine or Endor? You must go in a group, and that group had better include a Master Doctor, but if the creatures can kill you in one shot, then even a Master Doctor can't help you...
I can hardly wait to level up and start enjoying PvP the way I never could before. I really do want to make a difference in the Galactic Civil War.
If SOE ever gives fencers (and all the other melee classes) more resistance to attacks as well as a "stick" feature that will enable you to close the gap and stay there (the "follow" command is totally useless here), then I will take my sword down off the wall and re-learn all of the skills I have surrendered. Until then, though, you'll find me laughing as me and the boys exult in completing missions, standing over the carcasses of bad guys that I never would have been able to touch as a fencer.
I wish the rest of you well. I lament the handicaps that you labor under. And, I hope that you will find what works best for you. I'm sad that, for me, fencing is no longer what works best....
S'ulli
Kettemoor
Wookiee Former Fencer
now
Wookiee Pistoleer / CH / Medic
Hi, my name is Gustavef, and I am A Former Fencer....
Suffice to say, my experience is much the same. Though I never got as far in the fencer tree. But insted of going Pistoleer, I went all the way to Bounty Hunter (boo hiss.... 
) I Was already Master Ranger and all the extra Combat XP that I had from Fencing ment I only needed the Weapon XP. A day or so at the Kaadu Shoting grounds, and I am a Novice BH (boo hiss... )
I realy hope that all Melee combat gets a real purpose as a possilbe primary form of fighting. Not as much in PvP, but at least viable in PvE. As a Fencer, I was useless on any Big Game Hunt (Kimos or Kryats)In one shot I would be completely disabled. High-End CH pets and AT-STs are the only things that can act as tanks verus these beasts.
I still dream of getting to Master Fencer, but maybe when I don't care about being effective in combat. 
-gustavef, Member of FFA (Former Fencer Annonmyous)
Kudos Guys!
It is most important that you folks have fun, end of topic. For both of you, finding that ranged combat suited your expectations is great.
Me on the other hand, I am a fencer all the way. We stink at the moment, fair enough. But I play this game and my char as a practicioner of a forgotten style of fighting, both in character and in game terms.
There shouldn't be a descrepancy with melee and ranged in PVP. Ranged should be able to lay the hurt on from the distance, granted. Still disheartening that, as mentioned, you spend all this time, and in all honesty, MORE time training in fencing to get 10% the results, PVE and PVP.
But I'm a glutton for punishment I guess....was a rogue in EQ Pre Kunark...and stuck with it to this day :-) Good things often come to those who wait...at least thats what I keep telling myself at the cloning station
Kudos again, and Forever RAR!
Rooksarii, Fencer and Smuggler of the Watchkeepers, Radiant
Hi my name is ElderCat, and I am a former fencer.
I think whatupset methe most was how FAST ranged xp came in, I went rifle 4 in 2 days, the next day I went pistol 3AND carbine 2, of course when I bought novice marksman I had almost ranged support 3 from all my fencer xp. Yeah, I see NO place for fencer at all. It doesnt do enough damage. Two handed is eh and polearm does enough. Unarmed is... woefully overpowered and of course leads to teras kasi artist. But fencer... what does it do? nothing. I have decided to drop fencer and in fact brawler as well. In EVERY situation that I would use fencer I can use pistol, and my scout pistol is faster and more accurate than my ryyk. It makes me mad, and sad. I WANT fencer to work so much, but I cant get enough xp, I cant do enough damage, and I cant stay alive.
Welcome to the club of ex fencers.
i am currently workingup tofencer 3/4/4/3
once i get this my sword use will decrease dramatically it will be limited soley to any time when i find an imp dumb enough to come to a fight trying to melee. with the 2 level 3 skills blind 2 and dizzy 2 i should be a formidable melee vs. melee opponent.
why bother doing this? you ask.
2 reasons:
#1 pride. my character name is LewsTherin Kinslayer. the title for master footwork is Bladesman and that is the title that i will carry always. anyone who knows who my character is will know why. (i may also go wiht Bladeweaver but i think that is only for master fencing finesse also Blade Master is for master fencer but i dont have enough skill points for that)
#2 (the big reason) master footwork and techniques grants lots of special defenses +40 vs knockdown and +40 vs. posture change just to name a couple. these alone my not be all that great but coupled with the special defenses of the other prfessions that i have chosen i will have a total of +90 vs. knockdown and posture change. that with the 30 sec. timer will render virtualy unockdownable if i stll get knocked doen too much i can change a few things around and come up with +105, +115 or even +120 vs. knockdown
i have heard that the spec defenses currently arent working but i hope they will be fixed by the time i reach my desired level of expertise
When I see the gun-toting classes and how easy they have it, I am suddenly reminded of the Druid of EQ. "Sony's favorite class" they called it. Most everyone was one or had one as an alt, because you could solo so well. Did Sony learn nothing from EQ? I appologize in advance for the EQ references. I know this was never meant to be exactly like EQ. But it helps me make a few points.
When even the toughest person is able to be killed with one good head shot, then we come to understand that one's power is not in their taking of hits, but in their doing of damage and avoiding hits. The gun users of SWG have a huge advantage in that they do a ton more damage per second with their weapon than a melee, and it is harder to hit them.
Sure, if you ever do catch them, they tend to be easier to kill, but even the toughest melee still can be killed fast, as I mentioned. The place were we have our true power is in how effecient we can do damage. As is, Melees are the retarded gimp of DPS.
Maybe things will change. If armor was actually useful and allowed us to take a ton more hits than those without (eq. EQ Warrior vs EQ Wizard) then I would feel that things were balanced. As it is, I am starting to question my path to Pikeman.
Armor can be useful and allow you to take a ton more hits if you don't spam specials. You'll do less damage, but not that much less IMO.And you'll take a lot less damage in return (1/3to1/4 less damage). Haven't tried with pikeman, but as a fencer (1/1/1/1)I can stand there with my armor and take quite a beating. Sometimes I forget to put my armor on before a fight and its amazng how much faster I die.
Of course, I also have novice pistoleer (0/0/0/0), and I do much better shooting at range than running up with armor and hacking away at a creature with my sword. Thats the problem. As a naked novice pistoleer with no skills, I'm better off than a fencer with the whole first tier of skills and very good armor.
There is nothing more exhilarating to me than to go into battle w/ my sword drawn against an opponent that probably in all likelihood will will kill me(which is anything blue and up).
It just adds excitement to the game for me..I have to be smart, as we can not just be hack and slash..I have to use innate abilities etc. The Fencer Profession is no cake walk, but I believe that we will be done right by.
::shrug::
I'm not sure *why* we should read this.... Or why this is even in this forum? I'm pretty sure that most of us are quite aware of the discrepencies between Fencers and Ranged. And I'm also pretty sure, for those of us who have weathered these discrepencies, that the 'race' isn't as important as the 'journey' to the goal.
I'm alsoquite sure that the devs don't care if anyone leaves ANY melee profession- in fact, I bet they would do the Macarena if we ALL hung up our swords.
For some reason, as I read the posts from the Fencing community, I really get the feel that we are *different* from 95% of the other players out there. I laud that difference. I don't want to be another cookie cutter ranged/BH/commando. I don't want to be able to hit someone with one head shot and have it be over. I much prefer to depend on my talents as a Fencer, than a powerful gun that's capable of doing my thinking for me.
Good luck with your new profession though, and I wish you the best.
Seena
For the most part, I've noticed myself that people who are diligent with Fencing (and also Ranger) tend to be... how to put it... more 'civilized' in the game than your run-of-the-mill BH or CH. We're not there for the quick kill without getting touched, we're there for the strategy.
Heh. I am a Master Ranger. I was going for Ranger/Fencer. But that realy left me all alone. It is only recently with /areatrack that other players would want a Ranger in the group. But then it is to hunt Kryats, Kimos and other large nasty creatures. Bringing a knife to a gun fight is an excelent idea compared to bringing a knife to a Kimo Hunt
I have not give up hope on the Fencer Profession, (or melee in general.) Getting Master Fencer is still on my list of goals. It has just been lowered in priority. So I still slum though this forum. Because, as Manae said, we are a 'civilized' group of people. Of the un-cool melee types we are the un-cool of the un-cool.
To be honest, my going in to BH Profession was mostly because I wanted a BFG that goes BOOM! while still holding on to my Ranger Skills. This is one good thing about I love about SWG. I can change my mind without completely re-rolling a character.
On a different note, I think posts of "Why I am giving up Fencing" is good, though we should keep the number of threads down. Holo asked "Why are their so many Novice Pistoleers?" one day. Maybe we can get him to ask "Why are there so few Novice Fencers?"
My Hats are off to all those who are Master Fencer and to all those that are still on the path. One day I hope to comeback. But not now.
-gustavef, ex-Fencer