Fencer Archive
Thread: was watching last samurai last night and...
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Ideti
Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:30 pm
#1
i saw him weilding two swords at once. This would be a pretty cool thing to put into fencer maybe a item that makes two swords in ur hands.
Saiyn
Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:40 pm
#2
he used what would be a 2handed sword(katana - 2handed curved sword)and a 1 handed sword ( wakizashi 1handed curved sword)in his offhand, completly unbalanced in swg combining 2 profs like this, but they have said of plans for dual wielding pistols + fencer stuff
Message Edited by Saiyn on 07-03-2004 02:41 PM
Bloodfin
AngelofWar87
Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:32 pm
#3
Katanas, traditonally, are used with two hands but are not considered a 'two handed weapon' due to their relativley light composistion and their short length [in most cases]. And yes, it would terribly unbalance the game for a class such as this.
Daigoro202
Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:06 pm
#4
I don't think we would get to use a one-handed curved sword and a two-handed curved sword at once. But I think the original poster has touched upon an idea that has been circulating over the past year.
Basically, there would be one schematic that resulted in a single inventory item, but when equipped, it looked like two swords-- one in either hand. So it would be like a pair of gloves or boots.
I know a lot of people would want to use an acklay baton in one hand and a DOT stone knife in the other, but I think it would be better if the devs had some control over the way dual wielding was beingused.
Tymothi
Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:36 am
#5
Yeah, it would be a lot less programming, too, to have only 1 weapon that is actually two swords. Imagine how hard it would be to impliment a system where you have two different weapons. They've already done the motion capturing for duel wield swords so the only real big deal is deciding how the second swords will effect combat. Will it add to attack and decrease accuracy or will it have a lower attack and increase defense? I'm not exactly sure on the advantages and disadvantages of having a wakazashi in your off-hand as opposed to only using 1 weapon but I'm sure they'd have to make some trade-off or else it'd be just like adding an uber weapon. I'd personally rather they make it so that you get an increased bonus to defense because the style was developed so that you could parry attacks with your off-hand weapon and it's just better strategy than all-out-attack.
Brainplay
Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:01 am
#6
Daishi (katana is a peasant word for their swords but was gratified thanks to Hollywood) were swords that could be wielded by one or both hands. Comparing it to European patterns it would fall under the "hand and a half" style. Daishi we meant for armored combat while being used with one hand from a horse or two hands should you be on the ground.
Miyamoto Musashi wasn't the first samurai to dual wield swords and there are countless tales in japanese literature of earlier samurai who did use this as their style. I'll have to re-read Book of the Five rings but I believe Musashi also mentioned other schools of "fencing" using more than a single sword. Fact of the matter is that where ever there has been a single sword style someone developed a dual style. As for coding in the game I'm not sure how hard it would be to make the fencing class a dual damage character. In other words still keeping our low damage weapons and skills but making us hit 2 times both of which are still subject to any form of defense and resists. Making it mandatory that the weapons be matched by serial codes would help alot with the coding. That would eliminate the ability to use stone knives or other DoT weapons while dual wielding.
History Lesson:
The sword was a backup weapon in battlefield combat in Japan. The bow, lance, and polearm waaaay outclassed it in terms of versatility and damage potential. But dont tell that to modern day enthusiasts since the truth would be way to traumatic. The idea of the "samurai's sword is his soul" and the whole "I kill you if you even breathe on my sword" was from the development of the "cult of the sword" which didn't arise till the early 1600's. Most of the fighting had ceased by then as Japan entered the "Edo" period and samurai needed something to dote on.
Last samurai was in a very late setting for Japan. By then the samurai had long since fallen out of the favor as battlefield fighters and regulated to command positions in small units (NCO equivelant) or company and larger (officer equivelant) units of Ashigaru (non-noble fighters who were cheaply armored but heavily armed with lances, bows, and the field owning firearms.) There were a number of samurai similar to the movie who rebelled but were cut to pieces in most engagements.
The firearm did the same thing to the samurai as it did to the european knights.It made themobsolete....
Message Edited by Brainplay on 07-04-2004 04:09 AM
Message Edited by Brainplay on 07-04-2004 04:17 AM
Daigoro202
Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:39 pm
#8
Tymothi wrote:
They've already done the motion capturing for duel wield swords so the only real big deal is deciding how the second swords will effect combat. Will it add to attack and decrease accuracy or will it have a lower attack and increase defense?
Interesting question about what the advantages and disadvantages of fighting with two weapons would be. That's why I think that the single-schematic model would probably be best.
For example, if you had three "pairs" of weapons, one pair could have a defensive bonus. Another could have a faster attack speed because you are attacking with both hands. The third could have a highaccuracy bonus because both weapons are used to overcome the opponent's defense. I think these could have appropriate disadvantages-- speed, HAM cost, or damage.
I suppose the one flaw in this is that the animation would always be the same.
I know that they have done the motion captures-- I'm curious to see what style they used.The specific Japaneseformsthatusetwo swords that I have seen reallyaren't as flashy as people would expect. The Chinese forms that I have seen seem much more visually appealing.
I think the fight that was presented in Last Samurai was very situational-- I think it was intended to reflect aSamurai "way of thinking," which I thinkwas somewhat valid, but I don't think it was really an attempt to reflect a specific style of two-sword fighting.
furrycat
Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:19 pm
#10
I hope they don't make it so a dual-wield weapon is a single schematic. Being able to pick and choose your weapons is all the fun. Imagine a vibrosword with vibroblade in the off-hand. Or a cloak!
ALMIGHTYG0D
Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:34 pm
#11
IF anyone here played EQ which I am sure alot of you have I think they should do dual wielding like they did in EQ. Where there was a chance your offhand weapon would strike based on your skill at duel wielding. As you progressed up to master you would hit with both almost every swing. Just a thought.
Ik Molag
Corbantis
Digitalphobia
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:28 pm
#12
Hi,
I think dual wielding will do much to improve our attack power. Have you ever done battles with light/medium AP mobs with high kinetic/stun resists? We will do practically nothing with one or two weapons.
Then again, I think fencer still has defensive edge that we always had. I survived much longer against a jedi as a Mfencer than a TKM.
What I want is something like ... deeeeeeep penetrating knives. How about a molecular-edge blade such as glass-edged knives. I have heard of Aleuts using chipped glass knives for hunting. These penetrate hellova lot. (But obviously if durability is very low.)
Q
I think dual wielding will do much to improve our attack power. Have you ever done battles with light/medium AP mobs with high kinetic/stun resists? We will do practically nothing with one or two weapons.
Then again, I think fencer still has defensive edge that we always had. I survived much longer against a jedi as a Mfencer than a TKM.
What I want is something like ... deeeeeeep penetrating knives. How about a molecular-edge blade such as glass-edged knives. I have heard of Aleuts using chipped glass knives for hunting. These penetrate hellova lot. (But obviously if durability is very low.)
Q
Daigoro202
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:17 pm
#13
Digitalphobia wrote:
What I want is something like ... deeeeeeep penetrating knives. How about a molecular-edge blade such as glass-edged knives. I have heard of Aleuts using chipped glass knives for hunting. These penetrate hellova lot. (But obviously if durability is very low.)
Q
Yeah, the obsidian blades, they are made from volcanic glass and were used all over in theNorth and Central Americafrom the Aleuts down to the Mayans. Historically they were used for such tasks ashunting, combat, and sacrifices.It's said you could use one todecapitate a horse.Some modern surgeons actually use obsidian scaplel blades because they're sharper than steel, for procedures like eye surgery. But they are brittle, so I'm not sure about armor piercing. I would guess that the actual edge is sharp enough to penetrate armor, but the blade wouldn't hold up long enough to get through.
Reality aside, though, SWGtakes plenty of libertieswith material science, so I'm sure they could come up with a blade of some kind of glasslike material that had higher AP, but lower condition. You could go the primitive route, or it could be a product of technology. The primitive idea is intriguing me right now, you go somewhere and loot a chunk of volcanic glass, an NPC chips itinto a knife or a small sword blade, then you take it down to your weaponsmith who makes it into a weapon.
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