Fencer Archive
Thread: Weapons weapons weapons. ( the future )
First off: Fencers, by nature, should not be able to do nearly the damage that Swordsman can. The whole point of being Fencer is that you sacrifice damage for speed and defense bonuses. I definitely agree that the combat professions are in need of a little more balancing, and part of that will not be raising our damage.
As far as dual-wielding: I think it's very doable, and I think that the best way to do it would be to look at some D&D manuals and work off of that. D&D has done a remarkable job of keeping dual-wielding balanced. Essentially, dual-wielding would raise your attack speed but lower your to-hit bonuses. The damage would not really be influenced, it would be standard for whatever weapon you were using. I think you should get defense bonuses against melee, but it should lower your bonuses against ranged and should lower your dodge too.
I agree that dual-wielding has a lot of subtlety to it, but so does wielding a weapon with one hand. Or riding a vehicle. Or making camp. Or crafting a droid. Everything in this game is obviously incredibly simplified for game-play, otherwise: you could make an entire game around craftingBofa Treats and it would be boring as hell.
What you'resuggesting makes sense.It wouldnot be strictly a matter of attack vs. defense, therewould besome pros and cons to both attack and defense.
I like the ideathe original postersuggested that the dual-wieldable weapons should be a single item. A new weapon that was like a pair of gloves or boots-- they are appear in the inventory as a single unit, but when equipped, they appearas a pair. I don't know if everyone likes that idea, but it seems to solve some problems.
If these weapons came in pairs, then maybe the bonuses or penalties could be built intothe stats of each pair ofweapons. So you have a dagger and a longer-bladed sword, or two swords of equal length, or two short sticks, or two knives,and theywould all have different characteristics, and you wouldchoose them in different situations like any other weapon in the game.
That might solve what I was initially concerned with-- that people have different expectations about why a character would want to wield two weapons.
I'm going out on a limb here by posted a sneek peek at something I'm working on (to be posted in detail later for discussion):
What "IF" certain new specials were linked to a specific weapon type. In other words, you could only perform those specials when that weapon type was equipped.
Then, you make a category of fencer weapon "Offhand Weapons." It would have a number of weapon that when equipped always show up graphically in the offhand,but you couldn't equip it unless your main hand also hand a One-handed weapon equipped. (Prevents certain exploit issues.)
Then you could have certain "specials" (using the term loosely... sort of like saying CoB is a special) that alter the way the Offhand weapon comes into play. One special abilityconverts some offensive power to defensive power for a period of time. Another special could convert some defensive power to offensive power for a period of time. Both would cost an amount of HAM to use, just like Intimidate and those types of specials. The HAM cost is related to the HAM figures on the weapon just like our weapon special do.
Hypothetical example:
An Offhand Weapon:
- Main Gauche
- Offensive Mod: 12%
- Defensive Mod: 20%
- 20/30/15
During normal attacks there is no change. Doing regular weapon specials, only the primary weapon goes into play as normal.
But let's say you choose to use the defensive Offhand special:
/meleeOffHandParry1: Hx1 Ax1.25 Mx2 20seconds
Since this is a defensive special you automatically use the defensive mod; in this case 20%. This converts 20% of your offensive power into defensive power. All of you offesnive stats are dropped by 20% and your defensive stats are boosted by 20%. It costs (20x1) 20 health, (30x1.25) 38 Action, and (15x2) 30 Mind and lasts for 20 seconds.
/meleeOffhandParry2 could have a higher initial HAM costs, but lasts longer (the cost-to-duration ratio coming out a bit more in the user's favor.)
Or you could use the offensive Offhand special:
/meleeOffHandSlash1: Hx2 Ax2 Mx1.75 20seconds
This would gain the offsenvie mod of 12% (the Main Gauche is more of a defensive weapon so this mod is lower). So all defensive stats take a 12% reduction, and offensive stats get a 12% increase. You can figure ou the HAM costs, and it lasts 20 seocnds.
If you prefer a more offensive weapon, you might want to go for the:
- Kryss Knife
- Offensive Mod: 22%
- Defensive Mod: 9%
- 30/20/30
As you can see, this weapon would have more offensive potential than defensive potential. It can still be used in a defensive manner, it just won't be as effective as the Main Gauche. By the way, both of these examples are just off the top of my head for explaination purposes, so don't take any of their stats to heart.
What this would allow is those that see a dual wieldingFencer to be more defensive to be just that, while still permitting those that envision a dual wielding Fencer as being more offensive to do so.
Maybe something along these lines could be incorporated.
Those ideas sound like they have great potential Raph... and are workable as not to be "overpowered"..
One thing I am terrified about however... is that the specials for us become too 'complex', or, if certain specials are tied to certain weapons we will need to switch back and forth... For those of us who can't touch type, and who need to look at the keyboard to type... the more complex things get, the more difficult it will be.
My inability to type is my biggest handicap.
Seena
I reeeally want Sword Breaker!
Cheese is good!
randomspam day, January 3rd, 2004, Spread the news!
Just kidding, but seriously a Sword Breaker on your weapon would be sweet. Nothing more fun than destroying equipment, when I PvP i want to destroy their stuff, destroy their armor, destroy their tools, destroy their weapon. I want them to have to pay for death, I want their wounds to be MASSIVE, their BF to sky rocket. I dont want them to clone 2 seconds later and then be fighting again by getting a TEF from their friends.
RANT OFF!
Oh and dual weapons would be sweet but I don't think they should be one schematic. What if I want to have a Vibro blade in my offhand and a Curved Sword in my primary? WITHA SWORDBREAKER!
Destroy destroy destroy!
Also I think weapons need to have more special statistics on them. What if Cold weapons had a chance to "chill" their target. Stun weapons could stun, heat weapons have an innate chance to flame dot, acid to do acid DOT, blast could have a chance to KD etc.
Destroy destroy destroy!
Ok Im a little out of it today. Have fun guys!
Raphayl, I like what you've suggested here. It sounds really flexible, and I think it would allow us to interpret our character's styles even more. What if for the more offensive off-hand weapons, the special actually appeared in the animation, as if you had switched from your strong hand to attack with the off-hand weapon, as if to take the opponent off guard.
As for sword breakers-- I think trapping and disarmingis a big reason why you would want to use two weapons.
But I think the devs had second thoughts about special moves that damage the other player's equipment. I know they've said that this isn't what they want with the pistoleer's Disarming Shot, and early skill trees show a special for the commando acid rifle that was supposed to damage armor-- I can guess why this didn't make it into the game.
Some people have suggested that this should cause the opponent's weapon to unequip itself. I would prefer a delay effect like warcry. Actually damaging the other player's equipment really has no use in PvE.
even if it wasn't a second weapon, i'm all for anything that gives us more options.
Kali: have you tried binding moves to the number pad? even those who can't touch type have a fairly easy time with that. you have high mid and low for three fingers, and with the right grouping, and using your left hand, you can keep your mouse active. or if that doesn't work, i play without a mouse (mine's been broken for a long time). turn on your modal chat, and get your keyboard mapped with all the pertinent stuff in one spot. it will make you deadly since everything eventually becomes intuitive.
AltairPolluxRigel wrote:
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Kali: have you tried binding moves to the number pad? even those who can't touch type have a fairly easy time with that. you have high mid and low for three fingers, and with the right grouping, and using your left hand, you can keep your mouse active. or if that doesn't work, i play without a mouse (mine's been broken for a long time). turn on your modal chat, and get your keyboard mapped with all the pertinent stuff in one spot. it will make you deadly since everything eventually becomes intuitive.
Number pad makes it much easierto hit the wrong button than a linear arrangement.
Seena
an axe or tomahawk can slice or get in to the slots of armor and put some major damage on it not to mention what it can do to flesh.
Kam
It really would be a realistic weapon for a one-handed Fencer since he/she has a free hand to throw with.
If you like the idea, please tell the Developers.
Thanks,
Casesan
KaliMirchi wrote:
Number pad makes it much easierto hit the wrong button than a linear arrangement.Seena
never done tenkey? it's not that bad once you get used to it.
i personally hate the numpad idea. since i don't have a mouse, i have to use it to move and turn. plus, i prefer to have a 'logical' (as it were) setup. Intimidate is "I", and warcry is "U". so i just hit both at the same time, and stack them. but if one fails, i can redo just the one. of course this means i have to look down. but once i target someone ("R") and set follow ("F"), i only have to glance at the screen or the keyboard to know what needs to be done. i kind of 'regionalize the keyboard but keep certain things far apart to prevent accidental hitting.
can you use two hands on the keyboard during a fight? once you're in position and going at it, i can't think of much use for the mouse unless they move, or a Graul wanders by. i don't know. i can't really touch type that well and the keymapping works very well for me.
hm, i guess i don't have much to offer in the way of help, but i figured i'd try.