Fencer Archive
Thread: Info on Scatterhit2: Time to put rumors to rest
DarthVillanus
Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:23 am
#27
Veegen wrote:
-note: I have never used scatter hit2, or a stun baton in PvP, so im jsut making assumptions here.
I don't want to sound rude but if you are not a fencer or if you're a fanboy jedi then please do not post here. Feedback from players who hate fencers like jedi or players who have never even been a fencer cannot help anyone.
I don't want opinions from people who have a friend of a friend of a friend who's a fencer.
| Kalon Wiekog - Dark Jedi Knight |
veegen
Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:15 pm
#28
Kilon, I never said that I wasnt a fencer did I? Cuz I am a master fencer, just dont use it very often as PvP it borked and PvEing is done with swrodsman in my case. I have used scatter hit a few times, but not like I have tested it or soemthing.
(and on a side notim definantly not some fanboy of jedis)
I dont see why you "flame" (well sorta) me, cuz I am supporting your argument, I said that ppl just think that Scatter2 negates armour ratings, just because the composite suits are stun vulnerable, and not because the special is bugged, but that many think that the special is bugged, because testing is often done with stun batons (and since ppl havenot realised this obvious problem in their "testing", I felt like I could say this).So basically, rumors of scatter hit 2 not beeing affected by armour rating exist because when using a stun baton vs. composite armour, armour rating is ignored, not because of the special beeing bugged, but because of the weapons damage type having that effect.And you dont need to be a master fencer torealise something as obvious as composites vulnerability causing all the "rumors"do you?
veegen
Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:36 pm
#29
Right I see what you mean.
But still, what I said is a logical answer to why everyone thinks that scatter hit 2 is bugged to ignore armour ratings.
Andlooking at the posters here, alot of testing has been done, but with widely different results, so it doesnt seem like all the testing is really thatconvincing anyways(some say it does avoid defenses, some sau it doesnt etc.)
DarthVillanus
Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:44 pm
#30
People assume it ignores armor rating because assumption is easier than knowing the truth. It's easier to cry nerf. Most of the people who have said it ignores armor rating are not fencers or are jedi that got beat down by a fencer.
Dakarro3
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:19 pm
#31
Honestly,
the variants of discoveries is large due in part by the skills of the opponent.
to say it DOES this or that, is the same to say my fencer takes the same dmg naked as a bonearmor wearing newbie when getting hit by this weapon or that.
In some aspects you are lookin too far into it.
An actual field test would require ALOT more time and effort than anyone is willing to put forth. (I dont blame you)
You need to check figures against a common denominator before anyone can say FOR CERTAIN that 'This is how it is'.
Althought these are good theories. You all have definately kept this thread educational and fun.
I mean, I have done a little work on this sort of thing, and the numbers are all over the place. Not solid enuf to say indefinately, but it seems that everything has an effect of some sort on everything else.
The funny thing is, the devs probably couldnt predict the outcome of a hit because there are more factors that go into it, than they even know.
As close as your going to get is a close guestimation, and even then, it wont be accurate for the next person.
So dont get mad at others when they dont agree with you.
To everyone his own.
-=Dak=-
the variants of discoveries is large due in part by the skills of the opponent.
to say it DOES this or that, is the same to say my fencer takes the same dmg naked as a bonearmor wearing newbie when getting hit by this weapon or that.
In some aspects you are lookin too far into it.
An actual field test would require ALOT more time and effort than anyone is willing to put forth. (I dont blame you)
You need to check figures against a common denominator before anyone can say FOR CERTAIN that 'This is how it is'.
Althought these are good theories. You all have definately kept this thread educational and fun.
I mean, I have done a little work on this sort of thing, and the numbers are all over the place. Not solid enuf to say indefinately, but it seems that everything has an effect of some sort on everything else.
The funny thing is, the devs probably couldnt predict the outcome of a hit because there are more factors that go into it, than they even know.
As close as your going to get is a close guestimation, and even then, it wont be accurate for the next person.
So dont get mad at others when they dont agree with you.
To everyone his own.
-=Dak=-
Nadiel26
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:25 am
#32
DarthVillanus wrote:
Time to put some rumors to rest:
The onlydefenses multi-pool attacks like scatterhit and unarmed combos bypass is melee toughness and dodge/counterattack. They do not ignore damage mitigation, secondary defenses, or armor/psgs or the armor rating of such. That is fact.
I'm really tired ofpeople saying "oh I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who's roommate said that scattershot2 bypasses armor." Hate to burst your bubble but it doesnt.
Message Edited by DarthVillanus on 06-08-2004 10:44 PM
aren't dodge and counterattack secondaries?
LuapLink
Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:03 am
#33
Scatterhitdefinately goes through secondaries, it even goes through ForceArmour. I've dueled a few Jedi on TC2 and if they have master Defender I can barely scratch using normal attacks, but when I use scatterhit I can beat them in seconds.
DarthVillanus
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:34 am
#34
aren't dodge and counterattack secondaries?
No secondary defenses are things like defense vs. kd or defense vs. dizzy.
I haven't tested scatterhit2 on Tc2 so I'll take your word that it goes through forcearmor. But forcearmor is basically a fancy name for a skill that utilizes the same system as melee toughness. It decreases a percentage of overall damage.
LuapLink
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:13 am
#36
DarthVillanus wrote:
No secondary defenses are things like defense vs. kd or defense vs. dizzy.
I haven't tested scatterhit2 on Tc2 so I'll take your word that it goes through forcearmor. But forcearmor is basically a fancy name for a skill that utilizes the same system as melee toughness. It decreases a percentage of overall damage.
Jedi Master Defenders on TC2 can beat Krayts and NS Elders unbuffed and unarmoured so its a bit more than melee toughness.
And I consider Dodge/Block/Counterattack to be secondary defences with melee/ranged defences as the primary defences. Defence vs. XXX are just status resists.
DarthMaul73
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:07 pm
#37
Scatterhits (summarized):
1) Scatter hits ignore Jedi Toughness (or any other type of toughness)
1a) This includes the use of synthsteak (unnatural toughness mod)
2) Scatter hits ignore mitigation modifiers
3) they do NOT ignore armor itself. The whole AP argument we already know AP is borked in PvP. They can fix that also while they are at it.
1a) This includes the use of synthsteak (unnatural toughness mod)
2) Scatter hits ignore mitigation modifiers
3) they do NOT ignore armor itself. The whole AP argument we already know AP is borked in PvP. They can fix that also while they are at it.
------------------
I can personally vouch for #1 and #3 after looking at combat logs surrounding my first jedi PvP death today.
point #2 is just based on a compilation of opinions, and the fact that mitigation is a damage inhibiting feature much like "toughness".
Straker_Atrella
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:23 pm
#38
Ok, I'm not talking Test Center, I don't know anything about there, perhaps it is different.
From PVPing as a fencer, here are my observations, which could be wrong but....
If I Scatter Hit somebody, it ususally does about 200-300 to all 3 pools. HOWEVER, they one pool will osmetimesm iss do to a Dodge, Block, or Counter Attack.
Now if I use 1Handhit 3 on somebdoy, I hit for about 400-600, about double what SH does, but it's one pool and random.
Now the point of this is that if SH actually ignored Armor, Toughness, or Mitigation, why would 1HH3 hit harder still?
Now of course these numbers may go up or down, depending on Stun armor, PSG's and such, but they go down proportionally.
Perhaps the problem with the Jedi Force Armor is a problem with the Force Armor and not SH, but again, I don't know about TC.
Straker
Tymothi
Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:42 pm
#39
Nadiel26 wrote:
DarthVillanus wrote:
Time to put some rumors to rest:
The onlydefenses multi-pool attacks like scatterhit and unarmed combos bypass is melee toughness and dodge/counterattack. They do not ignore damage mitigation, secondary defenses, or armor/psgs or the armor rating of such. That is fact.
I'm really tired ofpeople saying "oh I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who's roommate said that scattershot2 bypasses armor." Hate to burst your bubble but it doesnt.
Message Edited by DarthVillanus on 06-08-2004 10:44 PM
aren't dodge and counterattack secondaries?
No, they're considered active defenses. Well, that's what the devs said.