Fencer Archive
Thread: Fencers new Role: DoT/Area
PoppaBear wrote:
I personally can't wait to try the new changes. Some folks will like them, some folks will hate them. My suggestion is when this goes to TC, PLEASE give Fencer a try, and post your findings here in a constructive manner. I believe we're one of the more mature, enjoyable forums in the game, and we should keep it that way. It's not asking alot, and this isn't about us. It's about helping our community to the fullest, and we should run with it.
Let's go for it, folks.
That's precisely what I'll be doing. Once my new PC arives and I can get back online I'm going to work on Fencer in live and as soon as the CU test server goes up I'll be spending all my time there until it hits live
And rimy, we seem only to disagree in which way we feel a fencer could tank rather than what a tank is. Like you say, there is more than one way to tank. Personally I like how the new fencer sounds but we will see.
Combat_Medic_to_be wrote:
PoppaBear wrote:
I personally can't wait to try the new changes. Some folks will like them, some folks will hate them. My suggestion is when this goes to TC, PLEASE give Fencer a try, and post your findings here in a constructive manner. I believe we're one of the more mature, enjoyable forums in the game, and we should keep it that way. It's not asking alot, and this isn't about us. It's about helping our community to the fullest, and we should run with it.
Let's go for it, folks.
That's precisely what I'll be doing. Once my new PC arives and I can get back online I'm going to work on Fencer in live and as soon as the CU test server goes up I'll be spending all my time there until it hits live
And rimy, we seem only to disagree in which way we feel a fencer could tank rather than what a tank is. Like you say, there is more than one way to tank. Personally I like how the new fencer sounds but we will see.
I can't wait to test our new tactics for PvP. I hate the current system, as I've seen many players not use tactics and skill in PvP, but use these so-called "uber" weapons for their lack of true skill in using their profession. Come post-CU, it's gonna be a whole different ballgame. To me, it'll be like at launch again. People using no armor, Pixie and Muon Gold to buff, and folks using real skill to fight.
*shakes like a crackhead wanting a fix at the thought of PvP in post-CU*
PoppaBear wrote:I can't wait to test our new tactics for PvP. I hate the current system, as I've seen many players not use tactics and skill in PvP, but use these so-called "uber" weapons for their lack of true skill in using their profession. Come post-CU, it's gonna be a whole different ballgame. To me, it'll be like at launch again. People using no armor, Pixie and Muon Gold to buff, and folks using real skill to fight.
*shakes like a crackhead wanting a fix at the thought of PvP in post-CU*
/agreed I was pretty tired of skilless folks with 1000+ damage weapons or dotmonkeys ruling in the PvP world. I was also tired of solo krayt hunters and the lootwhoring that went on.
I do think the CU changes will be good for the game as a whole.
PoppaBear wrote:
Come post-CU, it's gonna be a whole different ballgame. To me, it'll be like at launch again. People using no armor, Pixie and Muon Gold to buff, and folks using real skill to fight.
*shakes like a crackhead wanting a fix at the thought of PvP in post-CU*
"Fence" Thwap...."Simulatounus nothing done"....
"Fence" Thwap...."Simaltanous nothing done"....
"Fence" Thwap..."Simultanous nothing done"
ANY YES I AM A LEFTY SABRE FENCER.
Message Edited by MasterTexiria on 03-30-2005 01:53 PM
MasterTexiria wrote:
Anyone who thinks real life fencing is all about elegance and parrying has never seen a sabre match!
"Fence" Thwap...."Simulatounus nothing done"....
"Fence" Thwap...."Simaltanous nothing done"....
"Fence" Thwap..."Simultanous nothing done"
ANY YES I AM A LEFTY SABRE FENCER.Message Edited by MasterTexiria on 03-30-2005 01:53 PM
I burned olympic fencing matches to DVD, I liked them so much. And, IMHO they are about parrying, dodging, and yes, finesse. I won't profess to know more about fencing than someone who participates in competition, but do you typically hit and run?
Right now we have high melee defence and an effective dodge skill. It makes us hard to hit. Most of us like being hard to hit. I know I have never really been happy with the idea of Fencer as a "tank" because the word tank - to me at least - conjurs up images of the beefy guy who absorbs blows rather than the graceful artist who evades opponents' blows. So we have an innate avoidance ability as part of the game mechanics. Post-CU we won't be able to stand in front of an enemy and be guaranteed to dodge a huge number of attacks but we will be able to "dodge" ourselves. By using the cripple move and stepping out of range (6m for melee) we will effectively be dodging. In combination with our bleeds this move will let us use the tactics of of attrition we have expressed a fondness for. This is what I mean by not being given to us for free - we will be controlling the dodging and the lightning strikes we want rather than standing their watching auto-attack and dodge. If we don't move ourselves out of range we will be toast.
Of course one could see ranged fighters tearing us up without our melee defence. So we dash into range and cripple them too.
Yes sir I can see myself dancing into range to prod you in the legs, retreating away from your ungainly swings, floating back in to open a hole in you, blinding you and inflicting all the states we know and love. If I do it right I will be successful. If I don't I will be dog meat. Could add an interesting tactical dimension to the game.
Some ideas of what we are really looking for are some things like:
- What should be special or unique about Fencers that set them apart from the other 3 melee professions
Specialities involving Fencers that should set them apart from the other 3 melee professions is the fact that agility is a key issue. This would carry onto even the Special Costs that weapons have. A mastery of any profession should entail the ability to be able to use a weapon easier or for less cost. Also carrying on from the Agility would the ability to change stances such as many Jedi Video games do to change the swing style.
- Faster attacks allow for "In and Out" Techniques, get in cause as much damage as possible, then getting back out of reach.
- This stance would have enough agility to have a moderately fast attack with a smaller degree of damage output whilst remaining in a semi-defensive state, allowing true defensive skills to win the game.
- The brute force tactic would limit your agility greatly and hinder that available attacks to only those which create a LARGE HAM cost, slower moves hit for more and critically injure your opponent preventing them from attacking with something equilvalent to your attack. Leaves a good time of vulnerability ( exposes limbs, ribs, etc
The basic Flavor of Fencer's Specials should reflect the level of Masteries
-
Harder hitting Specials should provide more Damage output and showing a visual effect that knocks a player down for a few seconds or moves them into a state of stunned.
- What kind or style of weapons would you like to see Fencers use?
The kind of weapons that a fencer should be able to use should reflect the amount of Mastery that he/she has developed... Incorporating a 'Force assisted' Tree to further enhance either defenses or agility by means of a 'Agility Monitor' which is depletable.
- The most effective weapon in PvP for Fencers are Stun Batons, which is a use-able weapon at Novice Level.
- The Stun Baton should be a Mastery certification because of the 'stackers'. Power should also be reflective of each stance as above outlined.
- Weapons such as the rapier or mace should be incorporated in such a degree to be used by a semi-master fencer (50% or more skill tiers completed.
See above.
A group role for a fencer should consist of a more NPC vs PC basis. CH's are vulnerable to both Melee and ranged but melee is a more suitable role for a melee enemy. Match skill levels
The fencer's true role is to dominant his enemy fast, effienciently and move on to the next. Special attacks should 'delay' an opponent for a few seconds, enough time to change a stance (above outlined), completely destroy him, and move on to the next with minimal damage whilst still remaining the DEFENSIVE role he should take.
The Fencer weapon of choice depends on the level of Mastery which should correlate to the above mentioned. For example:
A Fencer with the skill tiers of xx44 would only have 50% of the weapon cost for specials deducted
A Fencer with the Mastery would have 100% of the benefits of Weapon Cost deductions and ultimately wouldn't kill himself.
Utilities that I would like the profession be able to use is a place of solitude to increase his defenses temporarily such as the Teras Kasi Meditation, a DEFENSIVE stat buff with a small timer.. which creates a certain invulnerability to certain types of attack or states. Very temporary 30 seconds or less, much similar to Center of Being.
I posted this in the Future of Fencer by Raphayl and it was one of my biggest ideas for fencer... and when I started to become more active in the community...
furrycat wrote:
The way I see these changes working is putting some of the things we've been asking for into our hands without giving them to us for free as part of the game mechanics. To explain what I mean, I refer you to the Getting to know you thread where I myself said "I see us busting out [...] some kind of debilitating attack." We asked for it; we're getting it. In the CU Fencer Role thread, Minerunner mentions "A cripple move which slows an opponant."
Right now we have high melee defence and an effective dodge skill. It makes us hard to hit. Most of us like being hard to hit. I know I have never really been happy with the idea of Fencer as a "tank" because the word tank - to me at least - conjurs up images of the beefy guy who absorbs blows rather than the graceful artist who evades opponents' blows. So we have an innate avoidance ability as part of the game mechanics. Post-CU we won't be able to stand in front of an enemy and be guaranteed to dodge a huge number of attacks but we will be able to "dodge" ourselves. By using the cripple move and stepping out of range (6m for melee) we will effectively be dodging. In combination with our bleeds this move will let us use the tactics of of attrition we have expressed a fondness for. This is what I mean by not being given to us for free - we will be controlling the dodging and the lightning strikes we want rather than standing their watching auto-attack and dodge. If we don't move ourselves out of range we will be toast.
Of course one could see ranged fighters tearing us up without our melee defence. So we dash into range and cripple them too.
Yes sir I can see myself dancing into range to prod you in the legs, retreating away from your ungainly swings, floating back in to open a hole in you, blinding you and inflicting all the states we know and love. If I do it right I will be successful. If I don't I will be dog meat. Could add an interesting tactical dimension to the game.
It makes sense, and you're right, in that we're getting what we asked for. We just forgot to ask for some of the things we already had, like dodging. They also don't seem to have added any parry ability like was asked for. However, I'm sure, due to the idea of combat balance, they threw in what they felt they could.
That being said, that kind of combat just doesn't sound fun to me. If it did, I'd have already been a pikeman, as that was the style of combat I most often saw with them. IMHO, the CU should have simply balanced the current abilities of each profession. I liked being hard to hit, and being able to stand in there and fight.
I will wait until after the CU, or at least playing on TC a bit, to see what I'll do. But then I face a dilemma. Do I stick it out as fencer and just change my style of play? Or do I say "heck with all the money I spent on fencer weapons" and pick up TK or pikes, as those will be the templates that stand in and fight? It's another "only time will tell"...