Fencer Archive
Thread: Fencers new Role: DoT/Area
Minerunner
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:18 pm
#14
He can't have tested it yet, no one has but the Devs and the QA departments at LA and SOE.
kAotiC_HeRo
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:06 pm
#15
I love the new proposed changes to Fencers... We have Moderately High Damage (4) Average Defense (2) and Above Average Crowd Control (3) That's about as balanced as it can be... I hated being the Fencer on NS runs and Krayt runs because I couldn't do anything but decay armor and weapons so my buddies can lay down the smack... That will change though, because I will be going Fencer/Commando 
WayneBrady
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:08 pm
#16
I love the idea that now your role can be determined by your combo as stated, and you can actually play the game in different ways, as mine said with fencer/avoid, fencer/control, fencer/damage, etc. Looking forward to all but jedi changes currently =/. I like the new fencer role.
kAotiC_HeRo
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:16 pm
#17
I didn't see anything regarding Jedi except the lightsabers damage type is going to be Energy.
WayneBrady
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:31 am
#18
kAotiC_HeRo wrote:I didn't see anything regarding Jedi except the lightsabers damage type is going to be Energy.
Exactly, as of now, nothing new, so I look forward to playing fencer once again now that it is usable for anything but defense adds.
ARC_Casper
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:03 am
#19
Everything will be fine, and people were already told that what you might like doing as a fencer now might not be what fencer will be after the CU.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:11 am
#20
I like the theory behind all the changes, love it infact. The way they have portrayed fencer is perfect imo and in some ways is not too dissimilar to the current way in which fencer works.
I allways visualise a fencer as somebody with a slight build, who is agile with good balance and is constantly moving around their oponent, moving in and out of range - dodging attacks not absorbing the blows. His strikes are fast, precise,calculated if not the most powerful but his precision and speed make up for it allowing him to deal crippling blows which will hurt an oponent as the fight goes on.
To me it seems like this is how fencer is now albeit in a slightly different form.
Currently fencer gets some good dodge and melee/ranged defense bonuses, allowing him to dodge blows effectively. Fencers also recieve some good def vs. mods showing he has good balance and compsure in combat. They are also fast a deal less powerful blows.
I hope that the new system will tone down the inate dodging abilities that a fencer has (so people done +miss+ so often) but give them abilities to move in and out of range quickly and effectively to dodge attacks. Ranged attackers should allways have an advantage over them whilst the fencer is out of his range but when in it he should be able to defeat them with little difficulty due to the ranged combatant's lesser abilities in melee range combat.
I'd also like to see fencers take quite a bit of damage when they get hit with melee attacks(low defense due to their slight build - not particularly tough) but they should still be able to survive well in a melee vs. melee fight by moving in and out of range on a whim.
I like the idea of fencer dealing alot of damage as DoT. I imagine a fencer taking a swipe at sombodies knee, making it painful for them to move easily, they would then dodge their opponents attacks for a while, making them work hard and further injure themselves in the process.
I'm incredibly likely to take up the fencer proffesion because of these changes. On paper they appear to be very versatile fighters.
I also like the way that you could combine fencer with skills from other melee proffesions to adapt the style in which you play fencer. At the moment I'm considering going Master Brawler, Master Fencer and MID giving me 34 skill points to train abilities from other melee proffesions which I feel will best build on my play style.
Bring on the CU!
Rimy
Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:16 am
#21
Minerunner wrote:
There are going to be plenty of reasons to stay Fencer.
Yeah, if you liked being a pikeman before. I can't believe the devs completely reversed the role of the fencer. High damage and dots, with low defense?!?!?
CU must stand for Complete Upheaval.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:24 am
#22
I'm guessing you didnt read my post then, I'd like to think I explained what I expect is the justification for the changes for all those involved.
If you read carefully, will fencers have the ability to move in and out of range very well. When you are out of range you are taking no damage, kinda like having high defenses. Personally I think it will make fencer a much more dynamic proffesion, possibly the most dynamic and tactical melee proffesion. I also suspect that there will be many more "styles" of fencer than there will be other proffesions. The defenses are stated as being weak, which insinuatesthat fencers are slight and not physically strong. It is suggested that they will posses the ability to avoid alot of dmg, not due to inate abilities such as "dodge" or "melee defense" but because their skills will allow them to when used correctly. This makes fencer a very rounded proffesion in my eyes and as such dabbling will vary alot more rather depending on a players prefered style, not just to fill in holes like swordsmen taking TK for some extra defenses etc.
I would listen to minerunner personally, he knows alot more about the CU than anybody outside of the sandbow teams does.
Message Edited by Combat_Medic_to_be on 03-30-2005 04:27 PM
Rimy
Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:45 am
#23
Combat_Medic_to_be wrote:I'm guessing you didnt read my post then, I'd like to think I explained what I expect is the justification for the changes for all those involved.If you read carefully, will fencers have the ability to move in and out of range very well. When you are out of range you are taking no damage, kinda like having high defenses. Personally I think it will make fencer a much more dynamic proffesion, possibly the most dynamic and tactical melee proffesion. I also suspect that there will be many more "styles" of fencer than there will be other proffesions. The defenses are stated as being weak, which insinuates that fencers are slight and not physically strong. It is suggested that they will posses the ability to avoid alot of dmg, not due to inate abilities such as "dodge" or "melee defense" but because their skills will allow them to when used correctly. This makes fencer a very rounded proffesion in my eyes and as such dabbling will vary alot more rather depending on a players prefered style, not just to fill in holes like swordsmen taking TK for some extra defenses etc.I would listen to minerunner personally, he knows alot more about the CU than anybody outside of the sandbow teams does.Message Edited by Combat_Medic_to_be on 03-30-2005 04:27 PM
And I'm guessing you didn't read the docs then....
Fencer
Primary Role: Close Range DoT Specialist (Damage-Over-Time via Bleeds)
Secondary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Strong (4)
Defense: Weak (2)
Crowd Control: Moderate (3)
I did read this part...
The Fencer is a lighting fast attacker who specializes in hit and run combat. While Fencers have fairly weak defenses making them less than ideal for standing toe to toe with their opponent, they will employ many abilities that help them reduce their need to stay within range of their target.
... but have also read that movement will cancel specials.
Sorry, but I became a fencer for the ability to tank, and if you look at the diagram, we're just a hibrid after the CU, but closer to the damage tree, with the following comment "As a primary Damage Dealing profession Fencers...". If I wanted to be a damage dealer now, I wouldn't have been a fencer. I understand them wanting less crossover of professions with the CU, but I'm not happy with what I've read. I will wait until after I try the CU out, though, but I can't say the prospects look great to me.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:25 am
#24
Actually I studied them for quite some time. I'm an analyst and number cruncher at heart and I love trying to work out how things will fit into place and the reasoning behind things
Sorry If I came across a little abrasive, I just didnt like the way you dismissed what Minerunner said when he has access to documents that you and I do not and as such has a much clearer persepective of what is to come. I was simply trying to show how what the devs have said about fencer post CU could relate to how fencer currently is.
The Fencer is a lighting fast attacker who specializes in hit and run combat. While Fencers have fairly weak defenses making them less than ideal for standing toe to toe with their opponent, they will employ many abilities that help them reduce their need to stay within range of their target.
To be honest this is how I imagine a fencer. I think of a "tank" as sombody who is physically tough and very strong, who can withstand alot of damage. I consider fencers fast, agile and able to avoid alot of damage, much like TKs but I also think of a TK as being very tough as well and therfore are the perfect tank.
... but have also read that movement will cancel specials
I think I remember reading something along these lines in Blairspost when he was describing the wind up/cool down mechanic. You have to take into consideration however, that combat will unlikely be a constant stream of specials like it currently is.
I've never considered fencers to be tanks by logic, they aren't big, strong or tough people. They are slight, fast and agile and are therefore able to survive well in combat because of this.
The reason a fencer makes a good tank in the current system is because he gains lots of mods to allow him to avoid attacks such as dodge, melee and ranged defense.
To me it sounds as if they are changing fencer to fit such a stereotype. Making them fast and agile yet portraying them as being of a smaller build than some of the other melee classes. It also seems as though there will be specials introduced to help fencers avoid damage and this leads me to believe that they will still make good tanks but rather than being tanks due to good mods, they will be good tanks when the specials are used effectively. They seem to be turning fencer into a more dynamic tank imo.
I'm thinking of the changes as:
- an increase to Fencers offensive capabilities - giving more varied and strategically useful attacks
- a change to the fencer's ability to tank. Without intelligent and strategic use of special moves they will fall quickly, when used correctly they are likely to survive a considerable amount of time in combat
Now I could be well off the mark with all this, I'm not part of the sandbox, but this is my take on it all after alot of reading and thought about combat for quite some time. I've been taking a keen interest in the CU since the holocron system was scrapped and the devs starting talking about a combat balance.
PoppaBear
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:40 am
#25
I personally can't wait to try the new changes. Some folks will like them, some folks will hate them. My suggestion is when this goes to TC, PLEASE give Fencer a try, and post your findings here in a constructive manner. I believe we're one of the more mature, enjoyable forums in the game, and we should keep it that way. It's not asking alot, and this isn't about us. It's about helping our community to the fullest, and we should run with it.
Let's go for it, folks.
Rimy
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:40 am
#26
Combat_Medic_to_be wrote:Actually I studied them for quite some time. I'm an analyst and number cruncher at heart and I love trying to work out how things will fit into place and the reasoning behind things
And I apologize as well
I was a quantitative analyst for four years before spending the last 12 as a programmer, so we're probably in the same boat. And I guess I dismissed MR's post because I have a bit of an issue with him right now that I won't discuss in here.I agree with your logic on tanks. My own vision, not necessarily the same that others have, of a fencer, is one who stands in there, parrying and dodging, and occasionally slicing. IRL, fencers lunge occasionally, and are very patient in finding a way to deal damage. To me, that's also tanking, in that they still stand in, but are very difficult to hit. The bleed fencers deal may or may not be due to a special, but without any more information, I would have to guess it's with a special. MR also mentioned other things a fencer can do, but can't yet mention them due to the NDA. We'll just have to wait and see.
We'll disagree, it seems, on what a fencers role is. But when I mastered fencer pre-CU, it was to do as I described above. I will be patient, play with the CU hits, and make a decision then. But like I told Raptor in another post, I don't see hybrid combat professions as terribly useful to my guild in group PvP, and really don't want to pick up another combat profession. Ah... the pleasures of not knowing the whole story yet...