Fencer Archive

Thread: Fencer Weapon Rebalance 2.0 revisions made.

comandobob
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:05 am
#14

ok this is alot better as we are fencer not swordman , i like the idea of the light foil , and the master weapon is not to high damage


i dont think any weapon should come near 300 dam as that would be to high dam for us


As to a post up higher we should not be able to solo krayts , we are light fencers which have high defence and fast attacks






Naerbe Airrea Commando {TS} Farstar
For Teh Horde
Naerbe -Tuaren Warrior -wow Zenedar
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:06 am
#15






_Vicious_ wrote:

I dont know about the light foil but the master weapon would have to have set DOT's like every other craftable weapon. No dna hunting with different results for each dna. That would be way more coding work for the devs than they would put into it.







Well, the thought would be that we would get to include more professions in the creation ofthis, something the devs usually like. They like the interdependance.


The trade off is this - would you want a Master level weapon sooner, while sacrificing its versatility, or would you be willing to wait for it, with the payoff being the ability to create a blade more unique to you?


That is something I think we should debate...




Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
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Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:08 am
#16






Vincentarasin wrote:

No, there isnt, because swordsmen get this power inPvE.



In PvP (An aspect you must clearly not partake in or register for balance) they are useless!



Even with their ap2 crap, their so slow, and miss somuch, they arnt considered a threat. Example, eariler I went aginst 2 swordsman and a Tkm, One using a scythe, one a Powerhammer.



Completly ignored them and killed the tkm first, they might have landed 3 hits? for all of 100dmg? While the tkm did damage in the thousands (Actually had to stim)








Ever consider the possibility that you just have not faced a good Heavy Swordsman?



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
antares_Kauri
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:09 am
#17


ZionHalcyon wrote:
Granted, a 300-350 AP 1 Master blade would hit for about 375 - 438 on an AP 0 Target. But compate that to a Heavy swordsman powerhammer, which is AP 2, and while its damage is roughly 135 - 470, after the AP 2, it hits for a whopping 203 - 705 on an AP 0 target. My point is that the Master Blade doesn't even compare to the Power Hammer, and the heavy Swordsman gets that at Novice, while we have to be a master fencer to get ours.



And the power hammer has that at 5.3 speed, and with melee mitigation is reduced to 135-269 @ 5.3 AP2 (211-420 @ 5.3 against AP0) vs a 300-350 @ 2.2 which would be 300-320 AP1 (375-400 @ 2.2 speed cap against AP0). Add on the best defenses in the game and it looks imbalanced. Just trying to be constructive

ph: 315 @ 5.3 avg against AP0 (with +75 speed = 238 dps)
master fencer weapon: 388 @ 2.2 avg against AP0 (with +90 speed = 388 dps: 60% more dps than swordsmen)

antares
master pikeman / master brawler / swordsman / fencer / tka

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-22-2004 08:14 AM



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
Vincentarasin
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:10 am
#18

/bow



Point Made.





Vincent' Arasin
______________________

First Master Fencer of Bria
______________________
(ggggggggggggggg9WXnnln[[[[nnnn}}}}nlnnWX9ggggggggggggggggg)
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:11 am
#19






comandobob wrote:

ok this is alot better as we are fencer not swordman , i like the idea of the light foil , and the master weapon is not to high damage


i dont think any weapon should come near 300 dam as that would be to high dam for us


As to a post up higher we should not be able to solo krayts , we are light fencers which have high defence and fast attacks








Actually, the poster you refer to said with a weapon like that we STILL won't be able to solo krayts, not that we should be able to or will be able to. And you know what? He's right.



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:12 am
#20






Vincentarasin wrote:

/bow



Point Made.










Funny, how you always rely on others to make your points for you, Vince, and then come in and act like you just made it.




Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:19 am
#21






antares_Kauri wrote:




ZionHalcyon wrote:
Granted, a 300-350 AP 1 Master blade would hit for about 375 - 438 on an AP 0 Target. But compate that to a Heavy swordsman powerhammer, which is AP 2, and while its damage is roughly 135 - 470, after the AP 2, it hits for a whopping 203 - 705 on an AP 0 target. My point is that the Master Blade doesn't even compare to the Power Hammer, and the heavy Swordsman gets that at Novice, while we have to be a master fencer to get ours.





And the power hammer has that at 5.3 speed, and with melee mitigation is reduced to 135-269 @ 5.3 AP2 (211-420 @ 5.3 against AP0) vs a 300-350 @ 2.2 which would be 300-320 AP1 (375-400 @ 2.2 speed cap against AP0). Add on the best defenses in the game and it looks imbalanced. Just trying to be constructive

ph: 315 @ 5.3 avg against AP0 (with +75 speed = 238 dps)
master fencer weapon: 388 @ 2.2 avg against AP0 (with +90 speed = 388 dps: 60% more dps than swordsmen)

antares
master pikeman / master brawler / swordsman / fencer / tka

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-22-2004 08:14 AM





Actually, that is very constructive. I will go back and try to revamp the damages on the weapons more. Thank you for a positive and constructive post antares!



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
antares_Kauri
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:23 am
#22

Its the combination of high damage, low min-max difference and high speed that does it.

antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
FURY_Chaser
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:24 am
#23

yes Zion I am aware of the new weapons. What i am not aware of or anyone for that matter is what is in store for Fencers on the combat rebalance.

If you bring in over 350 dmg AP weapons you hinder better changes that will be made in the future.

As a example Ackley stun batons.

Sure doubling our damage output is nice, but it hinders plans that devs have considered before about lowering the speed cap. Putting these in place hinders that now doesnt it? Instead of bringing up dmg output to normal or all weapons, they brought up one and hindered the rest of the current weapons. If they placed a lower speed cap it would be quadruple dmg prior to ackly bones.


VemaGara
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:28 am
#24

Looks a bit more reasonable.

I suggest widening the master blade's damage a bit more. There's not logic to that. This is just a gut feel for the numbers. Personally, I think the light blade should be more 50-250. This makes it a better PvE weapon, but makes it less attractive to PvP. I would also drop the min on the master weapon to 100.

I don't really agree with everything, but this is well thought out. For your next revision, include damage range and speed of each weapon. Those are useful to see.



Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:10 am
#25






FURY_Chaser wrote:

yes Zion I am aware of the new weapons. What i am not aware of or anyone for that matter is what is in store for Fencers on the combat rebalance.

If you bring in over 350 dmg AP weapons you hinder better changes that will be made in the future.

As a example Ackley stun batons.

Sure doubling our damage output is nice, but it hinders plans that devs have considered before about lowering the speed cap. Putting these in place hinders that now doesnt it? Instead of bringing up dmg output to normal or all weapons, they brought up one and hindered the rest of the current weapons. If they placed a lower speed cap it would be quadruple dmg prior to ackly bones.








Yes, I am aware of that now, which is why I said later in this thread that I would be revamping the damage further.


Fury - you are our corrospondant - say that the weapons we have now as - is, were reshuffled to the certifications I mentioned, and the Rantok and Ryyk were made AP 1. Would you feel that would unbalance us, or is that a better short term solution to the complaints of lack of decent swords around here?


Also, in terms of the new weapons, how would you set the damage on both the light foil and the Master blade (referring to only damage here), so that without attachments, they are better in damage than the gaffi (our current top damage getter), but not a serious threat to Heavy Swordsman, our nearest competition? And why would you choose the damage that you did?


I just ask that we leave attachments that go into weapons out of it, because any attachment potentially can unbalance a weapon (such as exceptional and legendary loots), but the offset is that those are rare enough that having just one or two of these weapons on the server does not seriously affect the balance of the game.



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
305 Rebels |4 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
FURY_Chaser
Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:47 am
#26

This is the problem,


The combat system as we know it is going to change. How I have no idea, no one does except Devs. We cant really try to balance out our weapons not knowing this, sure we can do it with the current system, figure out what would be balance right now but we dont know what is in store so discussions are almost nul and void at this point.


Not to say that we shouldnt discuss this type of thing, just not get into too much perticulars
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