Fencer Archive

I actually killed a Master TKM/Master Doc yesterday while he was buffed. It was just a friendly duel. He didn't have armor though, and I did, but I wasn't buffed, either... (I'm master fencer)

Unarmor'd tkm will go down like a 2$ **Something** aginst a fencer.

ARmor'd, odds are the fencer will mop the floor with em there too (Stun baton, bwaha)

Tk is missing 2 things, Dodge, and COB.

Now, if a fencer didnt dodge, and didnt COB, i am sure it would be a race to the KD+dizzy+Warcry

ahh.. thats not true.. TKMs can buff themselfs, get rid if disease is seconds and compltly heal all there wounds in a matter of minutes.. they are more powerful.. not nessacaraly in dmg.. but they don't have to go back to town evey little while either.

Two problems:
A) TKA is not affected heavily by mitigation, the other 3 melee classes are. This effectively allows them to achieve a higher dps.

B) TKA has by far the highest accuracy in the game, and the main attack they spam also causes blind. So what happens is its very difficult to dodge with a 105 modifier (about 220 with COB on) when you're opponent has 205 accuracy. Blind also seems to make you easier to hit. Without our defenses, there is almost no way (short of landing warcry and dizzy/kd, but unless you're buffed its not going to take them long anyway) to go head to head with a TKM in an even fight (no armor since 80% kinetic is the real bane of a TKM).

Look at it this way:
When I was a TKM my vks were 215 damage max, can't quite remember the min but for arguments sake lets put it around 100. With the 250 damage mod, that puts a TKM at 350-465 damage, and after mitigation 3 the damage range for a TKM is about 350-420.

As a Blademaster my gaffi is roughly 150-297 damage with no damage mod. After mitigation 3 that becomes roughly 150-240 damage. In terms of damage (both at the speed cap obviously) who is going to win; the average damage of 385 or the average damage of 195?
Throw in the lack of KD (not that it matters) for a Fencer without master brawler, and the fight pretty much comes down to hoping that warcry, intimidate, dizzy and the posture change stick before they pound the life out of you.

Fortunately a lot of TKMs are dumb (happens when you become one of the most played professions) and only know 3 moves (HH1, UH3 and KD2) so an experienced Blademaster does have a chance.

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thebigmunch wrote:
Trust me, TKA is not more powerful than any other elite combat profession. It's a common misconception. It's just a different style than the others. And after my friends actually started working there way up some of the profs, I was finally able to convince them of this fact. So there it is people, believe it or not.

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The key being working their way up. At novice, a TKA will most likely be absolutely destroyed by a same level fencer. TKA doesn't get powerful until master.
While I was leveling TKA (back in August), even with power 4 I could not beat Leftik (one of the first Blademasters on Ahazi) ever. Once I obtained TKM I routinely won.

I still remember the day the huge defense fix came out. We dueled at least 25 times that day to test the various stuff. In test of just damage vs passive defense mods, I won every time. When we dueled using everything we had (she was also Master Brawler) and started from 25m (both out of each others range) the fight was roughly 50/50. Without the Master Brawler skills, she would of had no chance. For a Fencer to truly wipe the floor with every TKM they meet, they need to have Master Brawler and dabble in pistoleer and possibly TKA itself. Anyone claiming otherwise just hasn't played/tested this long enough.

Note: I haven't played as a two-hand yet and not very high has a pikeman, but I suspect that this also holds true for them. Fortunately the combat balance should fix all of this (since in all fairness TKM's with a VK equipped do probably have the worst HAM cost except for maybe Pikeman but they are so broken its not even worth comparing).

Well me and a friend of mine (who is a very good TKM) had some duels tonite and i won them all even though he was buffed, but thank god for scatter hit 2 and i won. He only beat me when he whipped out his rifleman beat me on ranged.

If fencer had meditate we'd be just as good, maybe even better than a tkm.

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Higginsis wrote:
Well me and a friend of mine (who is a very good TKM) had some duels tonite and i won them all even though he was buffed, but thank god for scatter hit 2 and i won. He only beat me when he whipped out his rifleman beat me on ranged.

If fencer had meditate we'd be just as good, maybe even better than a tkm.

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Yes but you have 210 dodge (roughly 325 with COB). Thats much different than the hypothetical TKM vs Blademaster situation. When I had the same template, a TKM was a joke (hell a TKM is a joke to a Master Gunfighter/Rogue anyway). Notice my comment about a Fencer needing to dabble to equal a TKM .

Note:
I was once a Master Gunfighter, TKM, Rogue. It was an extremely powerful combo. I gave it up for Master Gunfighter, 4/4/4/2 Fencer, Rogue which was essentially an "I win button" template until players figured out the intimidate trick. You can't really subjectively compare TKM and Blademaster when they are just the basis of a template. There are way too many new variables introduced.
It seems that most of the people claiming that Fencer is "uber" are really talking about Fencer dabblers. My personal opinion is that Fencer on its own is about 90% fixed, with us needing some new and/or improved weapons to compensate against a TKM. Swordsman from what I've seen also is very nice (especially with the new Scythe coming out). Pikeman... those poor poor Pikemen . On a side-note I do know a Master Pikeman who is absolutely devestating when he hits something.

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RirdoTheRodian wrote:
ahh.. thats not true.. TKMs can buff themselfs, get rid if disease is seconds and compltly heal all there wounds in a matter of minutes.. they are more powerful.. not nessacaraly in dmg.. but they don't have to go back to town evey little while either.

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ahh..they can't do any of this while fighting you, so what difference does it make. It's a handy skill to have, and if you like it, go get it. In combat though, few will allow you to break off for 30 secs to meditate away disease or wounds. Not any more than I would allow a TKM to med away one of my bleeds.

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Higginsis wrote:
Well me and a friend of mine (who is a very good TKM) had some duels tonite and i won them all even though he was buffed, but thank god for scatter hit 2 and i won. He only beat me when he whipped out his rifleman beat me on ranged.

If fencer had meditate we'd be just as good, maybe even better than a tkm.

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Fencer is just as good as TKA. TK has meditate. We have a sword. But yea, I couldn't choose between the two either, so I took both.

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Coastromo wrote:

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Higginsis wrote:
Well me and a friend of mine (who is a very good TKM) had some duels tonite and i won them all even though he was buffed, but thank god for scatter hit 2 and i won. He only beat me when he whipped out his rifleman beat me on ranged.

If fencer had meditate we'd be just as good, maybe even better than a tkm.

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Fencer is just as good as TKA. TK has meditate. We have a sword. But yea, I couldn't choose between the two either, so I took both.

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Laeren wrote:

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Coastromo wrote:

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Higginsis wrote:
Well me and a friend of mine (who is a very good TKM) had some duels tonite and i won them all even though he was buffed, but thank god for scatter hit 2 and i won. He only beat me when he whipped out his rifleman beat me on ranged.

If fencer had meditate we'd be just as good, maybe even better than a tkm.

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Fencer is just as good as TKA. TK has meditate. We have a sword. But yea, I couldn't choose between the two either, so I took both.

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I'm with you Coastromo When duelling I'll usually start out with Fencer, test their stuff, see what they got, play possive, dodge their stuff, then Blind them, turn TK and lay into them with the targeted pools and high random-hit damage.

The thing to watch out for from TKs is they have UAStun1, and Fencers don't have a Stun hit. They also have a UAHeadHit1 and UALegHit1, which Fencers don't have. Fencers have more powerful Dizzy and Blind hits, however. TK's UAHit3 has a blinding effect, but it's not a very strong one.

(Btw, blind doesn't make you GET hit more, but it makes you miss more. Stun is the one that I think reduces passive defenses such as Dodge, so be careful there.)

If you come at an intelligent TK who sees your pools and adjusts accordinglyi, be careful. They can target any pool and will more likely smash your weak one down even further.

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Its undocumented but Blind and Stun both cause you to get hit more. The main example is dueling an expert bh. First 5 eyeshots all missed, lands one no blind effect and misses a bunch more. Soon as one lands and I'm blinded, I was hit nearly every time. Stun also works this way (and intimidate is similar although affects COB mainly).