Fencer Archive

Raph... I think I love you.

Seriously though,how long does 5000 hits take? Were they all landed hits? and who/what was hitting you? A master fencer would hit a person a whole lot more then a novice brawler... but only because that player's chance to miss would be greatly reduced.Whereas, I suppose, you would only alter your chances of being hit by having special +dodge mod.

So in other words, the more combat skills you master with a weapon, the less chance you have of missing (except for pikemen, hehe). The more defense mods you pick up, the better chance you have of throwing out a special defense move when getting attacked. Interesting. So a master fencer fighting another master fencer would never *miss* the other fencer, but the other fencer's dodge skills would alter the chances of landing the blow greatly. In other words, the defense is dependent mostly on the target, not the attackers skills, after the attack has effectively 'landed'...

First time I've ever thought of it this way.

Oh, and has anyone tried master fencer on master fencer duel? I bet that would come down to tactics and possibly other skills that each person has. Hmm... I think I'd pay to see Altair and Rro fight. Too bad they are on different servers.

Look at my topic wander, wheee!!!!

Odeeso Arnsu, Shadowfire, (On Hiatus, Two more weeks and I am *so* back), Fencer, Ch (bah!), Medic, SWG addict

Raphayl,

Thanks for the information - you dedication and hard work is greatly appreciated.

I only have one question - what makes this arrangement 'unfair' in your eyes? Are you saying that a skill modifier must either be 'universal' (i.e. available to anyone holding the skill) or 'specific' (i.e. available only when using aweapon for that skill tree) to be 'fair'? I can understand the issue of balance but I'm not sure what being 'fair' has to do with it.

Personally I think this affinity between certain professions makes things more interesting.

Isis

You'll note that the first time I mentioned if Ihad any real problem with this personally that I said I didn't. My reference to "fairness" was that I can identify the aspect of this others might feel is unfair.

Let's look at this without are the frills,variances, numbers and any names and it becomes a little easier to see what they are concerned about:

There are7 rooms in a warehouse. They are labled A, B, C, D, E, F, and G.Each of these rooms contain crates of some commodity: Food, Gold, Fuel, or Electronics.Each crate has thesome salesvalue; let's say exactly $1,000.

Rooms A and B both contain crates of Food. Rooms C and D both contain cratesof Gold.Rooms E and F both contain crates of Fuel. Room G has crates of Electronics.

21 salespersons are competing to get the best sales for the month. Each salesperson is directed to they are to enter 2 rooms and take one crate from each. Here are the results:

1. Rooms A and B = 2 crates of Food


2. Rooms A and C = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Gold


3. Rooms A and D = 1 crate of Food +1 crate of Gold


4. Rooms A and E = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Fuel


5. Rooms A and F = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Fuel


6. Rooms A and G = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Electronics


7. Rooms B and C = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Gold


8. Rooms B and D = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Gold


9. Rooms B and E = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Fuel


10. Rooms B and F = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Fuel


11. Rooms B and G = 1 crate of Food + 1 crate of Electronics


12. Rooms C and D = 2 crates of Gold


13. Rooms C and E = 1 crate of Gold + 1 crate of Fuel


14. Rooms C and F = 1 crate of Gold + 1 crate of Fuel


15. Rooms C and G = 1 crate of Gold+ 1 crate of Electronics


16. Rooms D and E =1 crate of Gold + 1 crate of Fuel


17. Rooms D and F =1 crate of Gold + 1 crate of Fuel


18. Rooms D and G = 1 crate of Gold+ 1 crate of Electronics


19. Rooms E and F = 2 crates of Fuel


20. Rooms E and G = 1 crate of Fuel + 1 crate of Electronics


21. Rooms F and G = 1 crate of Fuel + 1 crate of Electronics

Thesee 21 salespersons are told that only those that sell the most will be eligible for a big pay raise, however there is one stipulation. Each salesperson is prohibited from selling more than one type of commodity, but they can pick which. Looking at the above salespersons and their crates... it's pretty easy to see which of them have anadvantage the others might feel is unfair. Salespersons 1, 12, and 19 only have 1 type of commodity... and two crates of it. All of the others will be limited to selling only one of their crates. Where are the big raises going?

Now if you turn the 7 rooms into the 7 combat professions and the 4 different types ofcommodities into Dodge, Block, Counterattack, and DefensiveAcuity you have a pretty clear picture of the current stacking situation.

I know many people hate analogies, please forgive me if you do.I just thought this simplified the situation and provided a better understanding ofwhy some persons might be uhappy with this.

Message Edited by Raphayl on 12-06-2003 04:48 AM

I'm a Master Pistoleer, and whoever said that a Master Pistoleer could take a Krayt Dragon is crazy. Master Pistoleers are worse than Rouges alone IMO. Also way underpowered compared to Master Sharpshooters and Master Carbineers.

I just dont' know what to say, but RAPH, you amaze me again and again.

/bow, you are indeed the best correspondant, as a matter of fact, i have started my own Ahazi fencer correspondat myself, but of coz' nothing compare to you, I am just giving out helpful advice and trainings to newbie fencers. All inspired by you!!

wow... i actually understood that analogy...

Um, I don't see why this is unfair. If you choose to work your template in a way that you take sister professions (fencer/pistoleer, carbineeer/swordsmen, riflfmen/pikemen) than you get the bonus stacking of the evade modifer. If you choose to take a diffrent profession that does not stack your evade modifier you get the other benifits of the chosen professions.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Wow, they should make you 'combat system correspondent' - good work.
What makes it a bit unfair is that fencer and pistoleer is a great combo - can stack 4 bleeds on health. Swordsman and carabineer would suck, they get mind and action bleeds. Just as pikeman and rifleman would suck probably.

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Erebr wrote:

Oh, and has anyone tried master fencer on master fencer duel? I bet that would come down to tactics and possibly other skills that each person has. Hmm... I think I'd pay to see Altair and Rro fight. Too bad they are on different servers.

Look at my topic wander, wheee!!!!

Odeeso Arnsu, Shadowfire, (On Hiatus, Two more weeks and I am *so* back), Fencer, Ch (bah!), Medic, SWG addict

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i would LOVE to take on Rro with Altair. like i said, i've considered making a character on shadowfire just to watch him do his thing and see if i can top him. i've got some fun food tricks that play into my zabrak skills that might make him blink. though i think his doctor buffs might have me beat.

someday, perhaps. someday.

Xendi: if i can solo a krayt, i will personally beg the devs for a "nerf," even though it's a fix, not a nerf.

Name: eva
Server: Shadowfire
Guild: Elite
Rank: Inquisitor


Raphayl, good post I like how you got all the information down. Exactly the same information from testing on my own more or less. I knew about the dodge, counter, block since day three when the patch in updates came out. Honestly, I do not think that what path you take is over powering to any real exent as I found out. Flamers still burn you even if the damage is evaded, but not when it misses cleanly. Combat medic's 100% of the time just deasie, or pison you so thier is no chance in heck to avoid them. TKA's with thier 205 chance to hit, tear though you like a kid eatting a candy bar. Although honestly we will probly see some adjustments but not much, hopefuly they dev's wont nerf us down like they did to the creature handlers. I really feel for them they taken the brunt of all nerfs I ever seen. Its that SONY HATES anything remotely related to beastlords, I guess they cant get the "I wanna kill beastlords out of thier system" (giggle)


Anyhow, I do not play on test, I am very smart in figuring out any adjustments to this game on any character template to use them to my advantage. I report the bugs I come across as well as issues that arise. Anyhow Raphayl, if you want any of my person oppions or such or information I can give you from my testing i'll do my best to provide you with what I can. *so hates keeping written notes laying around* Anyhow I am bored trying to grind for FS slot... Since I got no holo to work on yet... Gotta grind my template back up to strenght.. Cya.

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Erebr wrote:

Seriously though,how long does 5000 hits take?

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On a newbie with no defenses? About4 hours, incuding getting healed periodically by a third helper.

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Erebr wrote:

Were they all landed hits?

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They all technically "hit". If theymissed... it would be an attack, but not a hit. For purposes of determining these "hits", performing aDodgeactually indicates a "hit" because it got past the Melee Defense and the random "to hit" roll.

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Erebr wrote:

and who/what was hitting you?

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To keep the scales perfectly even, it was another newbieuntrained character using no weapon.

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Erebr wrote:

So in other words, the more combat skills you master with a weapon, the less chance you have of missing (except for pikemen, hehe).?

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The more Accuracy mods you accumulate for a particular weapon type, the less chance you have of missing. These can come from advancing in your profession, the range modifiers on your weapon, and some addition situational modifiers.

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Erebr wrote:

The more defense mods you pick up, the better chance you have of throwing out a special defense move when getting attacked.

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The more Melee Defense modifiers you have the better chance you have of the hit missing you. The more Dodge modifiers you have the better chance you have of throwing out a Dodge, if the attack makes it past the first wall of defenses. Same with Block and Counterattack. Both phases are still compared againt your opponent's Accuracy though. A more Accurate opponent is both more likely to get through your Melee Defense AND more likely to get through your Dodge.

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Erebr wrote:

So a master fencer fighting another master fencer would never *miss* the other fencer, but the other fencer's dodge skills would alter the chances of landing the blow greatly.

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A Master Fencer's One-handed Weapon Accuracy is +150 plus whatever is on the weapon plus or minussituational modifiers. A Master Fencer's Melee Defense is only +74 plus or minussituational modifiers. Unless the Master Fencer had additional Melee Defense from another profession, there is still a mod difference of (150-74)= +76 Accuracy. This still gives the attacker a pretty good chance of hitting. But the Master Fencer gets a second chance with a Dodge of +105. Accuracy of 150 - Dodge of 105 = +45 Accuracy. Again a fairly reasonable chance to hit, although not as good as he had on the first pass through. Then again, one of a Fencer's strengths is incredible Accuracy. There is a bit more to how this is actually computedthan I just implied, but this still serves to get the basic point across.

Ahh, so its even more layers of interaction then I was invisioning... Hm... I could ask more questions, but it really isnt important, and its all pretty much semantics. Suffice it to say... Thanks Raphayl.

Raphayl,

Thanks for the response - I happen to like analogies.

If the sales people in your analogy weren't allowed to choose which 2 rooms to enter or didn't know what materials were in which rooms then I would agree that the situation is unfair. Otherwise, it would be fair but some options would be much better than others.

If the company wanted all the materials sold it would be their responsibility (and in theirbest interest)to structure things in such a way thatthere are enough good sales combinations to make it happen.

Also, haven't the dodge modifers always stacked but it wasn't until dodge was recently fixed that anyone noticed the advantage of stacking them?

Isis