Fencer Archive
Thread: Something interesting reguarding stun batons.
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ruehs
Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:13 pm
#1
I was tro....cruising the 19 Answers thread and ran across this tid bit of information in the weaponsmith question.
DarthVillanus
Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:45 pm
#2
Thunderheart wrote:
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be “the weapon” that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
The imbalance is that composite armor's only vulnerability is stun. Even specially layered the resists can only go up to 45%. If armor had multiple vulns then people would use multiple damage types and stun wouldn't be the end all.
Templatesrevolve around weaknesses. Rifleman, fencers, and pistoleers have become the staple they are today because they all have weapons that do stun damage. It's what makes them the most desirable.
It's not the rifleman's, the fencer's, or the pistoleer's fault though. Stun weapons don't need a nerf...armor needs a total revamp. You need to lower the resists on high-end composite significantly to around 50-60%so that using weapons other than stun isn't futile.
What bh wouldn't love to go back to using the scatter instead of the geo? What pistoleer wouldn't love to go back to using the fwg5 or dx2? What fencer wouldn't love going back to using the gad stick?
So to recap what I'm trying to say:
Armor has caused such imbalance. Armor is why the diversity of weapons used in pvp are so limited to stun.
| Kalon Wiekog - Dark Jedi Knight |
PsionicHawk
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:32 pm
#3
Stun and Mind are king in PvP right now. If you have a class that can hit mind and has stun weapon, it will become popular. Fencer has Shatter Hit, and Riflemen are all about the mind.
Rizzaka
Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:37 pm
#4
DarthVillanus wrote:
The imbalance is that composite armor's only vulnerability is stun. Even specially layered the resists can only go up to 45%. If armor had multiple vulns then people would use multiple damage types and stun wouldn't be the end all.
Armor has caused such imbalance. Armor is why the diversity of weapons used in pvp are so limited to stun.
Incorrect. This is partially correct that yes there is a weakness that has been created and yes this creates a preffered weapon but the fact that people are reporting 600+ damage stun batons which is a good damage for a T21 from my understanding. This causes an imbalance when you get within 5m of someone and wack at 'em. So yea, the imbalance is in both and i assume both will be 'nerfed' or fixed in the CB.
DarthVillanus
Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:02 pm
#5
Incorrect. This is partially correct that yes there is a weakness that has been created and yes this creates a preffered weapon but the fact that people are reporting 600+ damage stun batons which is a good damage for a T21 from my understanding. This causes an imbalance when you get within 5m of someone and wack at 'em. So yea, the imbalance is in both and i assume both will be 'nerfed' or fixed in the CB.
I have a 312-734 dmg stun baton and using scatterhit2against a person wearing stun armor and a stun psg, I have never done more than 150 dmg.
Message Edited by DarthVillanus on 06-10-2004 11:25 PM
raxputin
Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:01 am
#6
rizzaka wrote:
Incorrect. This is partially correct that yes there is a weakness that has been created and yes this creates a preffered weapon but the fact that people are reporting 600+ damage stun batons which is a good damage for a T21 from my understanding. This causes an imbalance when you get within 5m of someone and wack at 'em. So yea, the imbalance is in both and i assume both will be 'nerfed' or fixed in the CB.
hmm so that a rifleman can spam mindshots with a t21 at distance for 600+ seems ok to u?
a tkm can deal that damage to an unarmoured person without weapon.
fencer have a hard time to get good acklay bones and ask how much fencers got that uber bones..
SnowChimp
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:22 am
#7
ive been spending alot of time at geos lately trying to get some good loot or make it to the acklay if i find a tkm or something, cause im master fencer/master riflemen, and tkm's tank the kwis better than i can, i cant understand y i suck so horribly aganist them either...i even have 4301 tka extra, but they still hit me 500+ dmg under intimidate and with good armor/buffs, but yea i cant solo the caves, and i havent actually gotten to the acklay in weeks, when i did we got some dam venom
veegen
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:13 am
#8
Like kilon said the armour is one of the big imbalances of the whole PvP system right now. However, the devs have said that composite aromour will be changed (most likely bymaking almost 90% bases almost impossible), and once this is done, the other damage types will become more effective.
LuapLink
Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:13 am
#9
I'm sure someone who was at FanFest said that they were told that after the revamp armour it will cap at about 50-60%. This would mean that armour would have stats similar to what is found on Wookiee armour, a single high defence with low base. This would mean that you would have different armour for different opponents, if you were expecting to fight mobs doing kinetic damage you would use one type and if it was energy you would use a different type. This would mean that there would no-longer be one type of armour that everyone uses, people would start using all the different types of armour, not just composite as they do now.
Rizzaka
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:32 am
#10
armor + high amounts of damage are whats getting nerfed here. Yes riflemen are another shining example of someone who got too over powered and went beyond game expectations.
I know no one likes to look at things from the standpoint of "i'm too powerful" in a game an individual almost always feels they can never be too powerful, and thats okay i understand that myself its a game and you want power in some form or another. It still remains that a balance has to be taken into account, if you reduce armor then you need to reduce damage output as well. Its the ying and the yang, you can't have one without the other.
So its unfair to pin blame exclusivly on armor and thats the only point i was trying to make, i apologize if it came out wrong. Just have faith that the CB will actually work and that the testers will represent you properly and make the correct suggestions on implimentation when the time comes.
Minerunner
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:40 am
#11
It should be noted that Aklay stun bats are the exception, not the rule.
As opposed to Riflemen who can spam mind hits for far more damagealmost as fast(1.3 seconds or so) with a weapon made by any weaponsmith useing just surveyed componants.
I still don't have an Aklay Stun Bat. And I've been master Fencer since... hmmm... August or September?
And if I did it would only be used in the most dire circumstances.... not even normal pvp would warrent the use of one.
Only Dark Jedi players would feel it's sting.
Some silly people use them all the time when they don't need to... but those kids will find their awesome weapons destroyed in no time flat.
Ultimatly I think Armor is the main problem, with Rifleman's speed cap spamming being second.
Rifleman are gettingslowed for sure (said in recent 19 Answers.) And armor is going to go thru a serious revamp. So I don't think it's a big issue.
DarthVillanus
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:17 am
#12
Minerunner wrote:
Ultimatly I think Armor is the main problem, with Rifleman's speed cap spamming being second.
Rifleman are gettingslowed for sure (said in recent 19 Answers.) And armor is going to go thru a serious revamp. So I don't think it's a big issue.
Any class can spam specials at the 1 second cap. Some need skill tapes. Rifleman is no different. They are redoing the speed formula in the combat balance, so everyone will get slower, even masters.
phluxx
Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:25 am
#13
Stun Comp and Imp PSG make Stun damage as old and broken as defense stacking! Please get with the times
Most rifleman PVPrs use the trusty t21 now.. The only weapon fencer's have in pvp is DOT weapons
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