Fencer Archive
Thread: Fencer's Plight
I can onlytackle this issue from a Fencer's perspective, since I rarely PvP and have never used a gun.
This KD timer has crippled all melee classes, and completely destroyed us Fencers. We produce the lowest damage output of all other combat classes in the game. Our boon is meant to be speed, but most other melee professions can match us in speed anyways, or at least come very close.
For a Fencer to produce the damage needed to kill anything, we rmust rely on our special attacks. Unfortunately, even our specials don't deal the damage needed to dispose of an opponent efficiently at all. Our most damaging swords rape our HAM like nobody's business. Coupled with our speed, we burn through our HAM like it was nothing. The best part is, apparently all melee classes got a HAM reduction in their special attacks... EXCEPT US.
This leads to the KD issue. Firstly, I'd like to point out that we DO NOT HAVE A KNOCK DOWN ATTACK. I don't know how many people have called me a 'lamer' for spamming KD. What we have is Lunge, which simply forces someone to their knees, and a second successful Lunge would force the enemy to prone. If able to hit the enemy with our Dizzy Hit, when they attempted to stand up, there was aCHANCE they would fall flat on their back, much like KD. We have a two-hit combo, each move draining our HAM, with nopromises of working.
Knocking our opponents down allowed us the produce our biggest damage, which tended to still be rather pathetic. It also prevented anyone wielding a gun from simply running away kiting us to death the moment we pulled our swords. It is also a defensive measure, since our defensive 'bonuses' don't work, and we're always stuckface to face with our enemies, trading blows
With this patch, both Lunge and Dizzy are worthless. It seems the difficulty in forcing a KD has been increased, and if I did manage to KD my opponent, they seem to pop up after a max ofmaybe fiveseconds. Lunge deals 1-3 damage, all it was good for was the posture change, which in turn allowed us to produce more damage, which we desperately need. Now, I can only use Lunge once every thirty seconds (yes, this KD patch effects posture changes, not only KDs). Dizzy's only effectis that if someone was Dizzy and attempted to recover from a posturechange, there was a CHANCE they would fall. Dizzy seems to only last a max offive seconds now also, MAYBE.
The point I'm trying to make is that us Fencers are totally boned. We have one of two choices: stand in front of your opponent trading blows, and hope you kill him before he kills you, or spam special attacks, praying you don't kill YOURSELF before you kill them.
A Lunge posture change only lasts seconds. Dizziness lasts only seconds. An actual KD lasts only seconds. Our damage is pathetic. Our speed kills our HAM, since specials are our only decent damage dealers. I just don't understand why us meleers got smacked with the almighty hand of nerf. We weren't kings of PvP. We weren't soloing con red mobs. It's understandable to an extent on ranged fighters, if they were able to KD an opponent from 50m away and keep them down, but us? The ones who have to charge headlong into a group of enemies just to get to our targets, and end up drawing all the aggro?
Please, none of that 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight'. This isn't about our ability to battle gunfighters, it's about our abililty to fight PERIOD. Please, if a developer reads this, just let us know why you all decided to throw four melee classes in the game, if they were all meant to be a complete waste of time?
Thanks to anyone who read this 
(To my fellow Fencers: if I get a good enough response from you guys, I'll go ahead and post this on the main discussion board. Can't ever have too many posts out there trying to help us out :smileyhappy
please DO post this on the main discussion board. In our topic "Why were 1-hand users the only melee class not addressed"
Seena
I think there are some other undocumented changes. I usually play in a group with two handed sword fighter and let her do the knockdowns while I concentrate on blinding the opponent and starting a bleed. I have been fighting in the same group against the same opponents (Baz) all day and there appears to be a fairly significant increase in the rate at which both attacks are failing. Can anyone else confirm this? Moreover, the delay in the attack queue appears to have increased to about 5 seconds. It has become almost imposssuble to get a heal off when it matters. Just a impressionistic reaction is that death rate foran identical group consisting of a fencer, swordsman, TK pistoleer/medic and CH appears to have tripled. In addition to absence of knockdown, there appears to have been a change in extent to which a pet can hold aggro. Adds that were previously frozen by pet attacks are now ganging on one group member.
I agree with your point that Lunge+Dizzy isn't a normal "KD" move but let's face it. We use it so that our opponents cannot attack us back as well. It comes down to the same effect as KD, but the disadvantages are:
We have to be in range.
We need to use 2 specials.
Our specials cost a lot.
Knockdown is the problem. It shouldn't even be in the game. Anything that allows your opponents to lay on the floor helpless and unable to fight back is unbalanced, no matter how you use it (ranged or melee).
We, like many other classes, have been so used to knockdown that we are reliant on using it. We HAVE to have knockdown in order to survive. Is this how you want it to be?? It's the cheap and fast solution out to balancing our class, yet it's just going around the same old problem of balancing knockdowns from class to class. Watch, if we have it your way and fencers and other melee get a non-nerfed melee, everyone is going to simply use that KD move to fight ONLY. They will not use anything else. Kimo? Yep... KD. PVP? Yep... KD. This solution will only make things go to the lowest common denominator and people will still be unhappy.
Knockdown should not be our only way of reaching our opponent, which is really the core of the problem. We cannot reach our opponent, so we try to knock them down. We need another way of reaching our opponent without knocking them down into helpless pieces of cabbage.
Again, all the defenses and offenses in the world will NOT help if you cannot reach your opponent. I can sympathize on that.
Possible solutions:
-Give running speed increases to melee based on skill. This will give us ways to fight them while running.
-Make ranged unable to shoot while "running". They can still walk while shooting. The only proffession that can shoot while running should be the Bounty Hunter, and maybe the pistoleer.
-if the 2 of the above aren't implemented, there should be at least larger penalties for ranged shooting while running, and increased damage taken by them while running so it HURTS if they run. This does not solve the problem directly, but it's a start.
I don't think there is anything wrong with knockdown, or the way it used to work for Fencers. It makes perfect sense to knock down an opponent in melee combat or keep them in a lower posture than you as much as possible. I don't think it ever made me too strong, though I don't do but PvP. I was usually able to solo white con enemies and animals, ocassionally yellows, and rarely reds....isn't that what the con system means? If we were able to fight at where they cons are at the rate that is about right using knockdown or lunge....what is wrong with that system? We still had a weakness to adds, and it is not realistic that you could ever keep them down all the time, plus since we rely on special moves, our HAM costs would keep us in check as it was.
The fact of the matter is, some people who had the KD ability abused it, not the melee people who used it well, and lived or died by it, the people who killed everything by it because they were too lazy to do it another way, or too cheap to risk it.
LunaeMinx wrote:
Please, none of that 'don't bring a knife to a gunfight'. This isn't about our ability to battle gunfighters,
Just on this, Granted we aren't carring a light saber but I seem to remember Luke Skywalker taking out a whole bunch of GUNFIGHTERs in the movie without using a **edit** gun, No instead he just Cut their guns in half, why can't a fencer have a skill to KNOCK a Gun, or a Rifle out of somebodies hands? OH I FORGOT swords aren't actually supposed to kill things, be used as a defence or any of that crap.... HOW about even letting 1 hand swordsman use a **edit** sheild? You know ones that can deflect blaster fire? OH MY BAD THAT would over power us, I forgot we are supposed to be gimps.
I have just given up on fencing. Reason --> PvP
even with KD nerf and pistoleers no longer able to chain spamm me on the ground. (fencerdefence mods.. pfft ya right a joke in PvP) ever have fun CHASING a person with a gun only to find they ARE OUT OF RANGE... OUT OF RANGE.... OUT OF RANGE... so you burn up yer HAM trying to LUNGE to stop them from running. PFFT good luck hitting them before they hit STAND and run some more... I try to peeps kiting me all the time...
Ok so you get gtroupt with alot of fellow Imperial Members to go get rid of some Rebels.. yer a fencer for oyu do to anything you have to run that 64m that all yer group is already killing people at, you arrive to just issue the death blows... GREAT FUN for the Faction Points but IT SUCKS for actually getting to kill anything..
Don't Take a knife to a gunfight... OK... I took a SWORD but my Knife has the same range and has less range than a freaking Unarmed person. Honestly I feel for the **edit** JEDI's that will be sooo pumpt to equip their light sabers, cause heh Melee in this game is a total joke.
I still have 200k in fencing exp MAYBE i will come back should they actually make the class fun... Swordplay is great, just the Devs are anti-melee and all about range.
Until they fix this class... Adeu
KD = crowd control something that this game happens to not have, b/c of the nerf!
Why get extreme with the nerfs? why not do this in steps, ALSO STOP basen the game on PVP, if ur maken a nerf for PVP dont let it effect PVE....UR messn the game up DEVS!
PVE = not PVP
Fencer needs luv now cuz ur went wacky with the nerf bat!
Also to add to an above post, I have notice odd delays in combat <NOT lag, and NOT weapon speed>.
There is a silent nerf somewhere in combat mennu, when chaining commands before a fight starts and between healing in combat as melee.
Of which i haev to say. Before all the nerf this and nerf that crap happened, there wasnt a super big reason to have this done on any side of the fence!
UNLESS you just went and based it all on PVP!
As of now, u have little rason to go out and PVE!
Poeple are already maxing out masterys, so why make this dumber'er'er'er...ya...
DEVs get ur heads out of ur butt, MAKE THE GAME USER FRIENDLY, stop worry'n about ur money in ur pocket...give us game content and dont make game content come from longer to do this /command...bla bla...or nerf that longer to ain exp bla bla...STOP changen proffessions...just fix the GAME not nerf like madmen.
Didnt you guys learn anything from PS adn EQ when they came out. We all said the same thing then and we say it now. STOP PLEASE!
nice post u should really e-mail that to the devs!
if nobody noticed either we have the worst weapons IN THE GAME
I think our class should be able to throw our weapon..a weapon..into the enemy to slow them down or something. We need compensation for
1) our lack of power 2) Lack of ability to wear armor in general 3) speed that eventually kills our HAM (speed that the 2hand swordsman also have)
We should be distinct from the other mele classes just as they are distinct from one another.