Fencer Archive
Thread: A Vision of Fencer Now and to Come
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Minerunner
Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:50 pm
#1
Greetings,
I was asked by Straker Atrella to post a Vision Statement for us, based souly on my perception of our Profession and wher eI think it should go. Keep in mind that regardless of my Vision, I bring Your issues to the Developers, not mine (save when they are the same.)
So without Further Ado...
Minerunner's Vision of Fencers Now and to Come
Now:
Overview:
Right now we are a fairly ballanced profession when taken in context by it'self. Everyone knows even if they don't say it that the Fencers that do the best are combo Fencers... Most often Pistoleer (to max Dodge and Defense skills) or TKA for (Melee Defense and State Defense.)
On our own we're a powerfull class capable of doing much that other classes without supporting skills cannot accomplish as easily. We have our weaknesses but they aren't terribly signifigant with one exception that came about when skills got capped, and became apparent when the "High End Content" came out.
Strengths:
Out strengths lay in our malliability, we can offer a wide variety of attacks to benifit our partners and allies. We can also handle "Mid Range Content" Solo and with great ease without any special weapons and with simply a good suit of armor. Example: Warren, Weapons Research Lab etc...
Weaknesses:
Our weaknesses come to lightprimarily in "High End Content", Where on the Corvette we end up only more effective than Dancers, and in the Death Watch Bunker TKM's are tanking better than we are (takeing less damage from hits and getting hit less), while doing more damage.
To Come:
Overview:
We've got alot of changes comeing up, and while no one knows currently all that that will entail for certain, we can be assured that they will address some of our basic problems. I'd like to see us be able to be "effective" in the "High End Content", I'd like to see a variety of new weapons, above all cosmetic variants of all current weapons, to which end I could work with the Weaponsmith Cor. To try to impliment such a change.
Major Hopes:
1: New Weapons, customizable looks to the weapons, especially a Light Foil, and a craftable customizable Master weapon.
2: Removal of our redundant attack, replaced with something as usefull.
3: That the Combat Ballance will set "High End Content" on a more even footing across the board.
Supplimentary comentary.
I'm not a proponant of dual wielding, there are many reasons for this and I've gone into them indepth in the past. But I will rehash if asked.
I'm very interested instead to see what "sci-fi" can add to one handed melee fighting, namelyarm worn personal shield generators and advanced left arm gauntlettechnology used as a counterweight of sorts... perhaps one would give additional level of armor or increase the base defense caps, and the other would add to damage and or evasion chance. Remember by SWG they've had 20,000 years or so to come up with advances to these primitive fighting styles.
Above all though it's about what we as a community want, not what I want.
Frank "Minerunner" Dometrovich
NoonTV
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:28 pm
#2
1st 
But seriously I do hope fencers dont get overlooked with them thinking we are fine now. Fencer needs alot of adjusting, weapons, delays etc but lets hope they get looked at like all the other professions.
Message Edited by NoonTV on 07-02-2004 06:29 PM
Straker_Atrella
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:15 pm
#3
Nice post, I agree. I also think that the Fencer class is pretty well off. Actually fairly balanced, fix our redundant attacks and were pretty set.
The problems with Fencer, it seems like we agree are not so much "Fancer" problems as game design problems. Against most content Defense doesn't matter much, med skill, Armor and buffs make it so getting hit doesn't matter. Against the crap where defense DOES matter the Corvette and DWB for example, we get hit just as often as everybody else. So it's not that Fencer is to weak, it's that the rest of the game isn't scaled properly, if that makes sense.
Which basically seems like what you feel as well.
For example, I don't think Fencers should get better AP weapons. You want to kill faster, go swordsman. However, if I can't kill it, I dang well better be able to tank it for my friends who can.
Nice to see were on pretty close to the same page at least.
Corrupt-Jedi
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:27 pm
#4
Excellent post, I'd love to see some new weapons, especially for the master box 
LunaticFringer
Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:34 am
#5
This is a bit extreme, I know, but the ability to pick up a lightsaber should be an option for a non-jedi fencer. I know Han Solo used one only briefly and only to cut up that Tauntaun for poor old Luke. But still, it's this sort of 'out of the box' thinking I'd like to see applied in game with Fencer and other professions. For most weapons we simply get the 'you are unexperienced in using this weapon and dmg will be greatly reduced'. So, really, this is just a small add on I'd like to see. Besides; it'd be more believeable seeing Non-Jedi running around with 'ancient' lightsabers than seeing actual Jedi. An idea to throw out there anyway. Maybe Force Sensitivity is going to do this anyway though.
As for our ability to tank. I think we're pretty balanced as is without any tweaking needing to be done to us. Our biggest weakness is in needing the strength of a 'dual' master profession if you ask me. But, don't all the combat classes pretty well have this same problem?
I do like the idea of customizable weapons as well. It would be nice if they gave vibroblades in comparison to say an ordinary sword power cells and 'adjustable' stats. Be able to set it for more dmg at a cost of more condition or set or stun batons to be on full stun or turn them off to do only kenetic dmg.
A few more animations would be nice. And a few more skills. A disarm melee opponent move would be very nice. Or a defensive gaurd move we could use in a held state. Skills over more attribute numbers is what I think I'm getting at. I'd rather see an actual Gaurd skill as opposed to a number by dodge. I'm not saying take that out; just add an addition skill for it. One that gives us more boost to defense and costs us some HAM to use as a consequence.
We need somewhere to go after we reach Master Fencer as well. Either in the form of continual Master Quests or perhaps new weapons that require us to special in a certain 'style' of One Handed Weapon usuage. This would go to great lengths to further diversify our numbers beyond our second or third professions we may have.
Congrats on the possition to our new corrospondant as well. May the Force be with you.
The Lunatic Fringer
Minerunner
Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:45 am
#6
Hmmm post eaten... long story short, we won't be overlooked, Lightsabers are realisitcally able to be used by Melee Professions however there is overwealming dislike of the idea of more people running around with a stick that emits plasma contained in a bottle.
Skills over attribute would be nice but it's easier to change an entry in a database than to build a whole new section of the database.
StompyPete
Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:18 am
#7
Yeah, I would like to be able to just pull out a lightsaber. I don't care if it does any damage at all- in fact, it could do damage to ME for all I care. I just want to be able to pull out one without going the long Jedi road. I'd probably rarely use it.
StompyPete
Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:52 am
#8
It would be great if a non-Jedi using a lightsaber would gain visibility in the same way as Jedi do- I've always wanted, as a high-ranking Imperial, to out of the blue be hunted down by a Rebel bounty hunter.
TheHomicidalVerpine
Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:37 am
#9
I'll agree on the discontent about the lightsaber thing I mentioned earlier. However, could be petition for some weaker quest based lightsabers or the ability for Jedi to trade lightsabers to non-Jedi? Just give us a penalty for not knowing how to use it. Or perhaps with the Force Sensitive stuff comming; allow for us to study lightsaber use on a small scale to use with our Fencers.An idea worth pitching since, undoubtedly, all the professions are looking at what exactly 'Force Sensitive' skills as opposed to All out Jedi skills are going to do to all the professions. I just want to make sure that Fencer is being taken into consideration here. It might be a good idea to do this as well:
Pitch for a small degree of usability of regular lightsabers by Fencers and the Dual lightsabers by Swordsmen. If we could see this a low level lightsaber that we could quest for in game this would promote both the use of Force sensitivity with our Profession while not stepping on the Jedi's toes as far as letting a Non-Jedi have a high-quality lightsaber.
On the penalty part of non-Jedi using a lightsaber we shold be just as likely to wound ourselves as any opponent if we have absolutely no skill in using one. We should also be open to attackby any player who sees us use one. To promote the idea that wither Jedi by blood or suspicion just for wielding one of their weapons; you ended up on a wanted list.
Some ideas anyway. Also, love the other ideas here as well. I don't think we should necessarily see our own Armor though. Unless it's going to be a Star Wars version of Fencer padded armor like they use in matches around the world today. Maybe some Capes or even some of those ponchos like the Three Musketeers had might spice up the game for Fencers a little more though. I know, it's a Space Game, but I'm sure some of us Court Fop types that made Master Fencer would be wearing this stuff regardless; the latest craze in the Coruscant Courts. So on and so forth.
Sincerely,
The Homicidal Verpine,
formerly The Lunatic Fringer <bows head in silence for 1 year old expired account>
<looks ahead to a bright new year for the 2nd one>
Tstorm
Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:19 am
#10
As I see it, Fencers are strong in defense and speed, while we're weaker in damage than a profession like Swordsman. It balances out nicely on paper.
The problem I see is what the initial combat system never considered -- the massive tilt to the high end displayed in the Corvette, Geonosian Bio-lab, and Death Watch Bunker. The mechanics in these dungeons slice through our defenses with ease and our lighter damage puts us at a disadvantage compared with other combat professions in these places.
Perhaps the ellusive "combat rebalance" will fix some of these issues. I am more interested in seeing the combat rebalance come to light than new weapons, armor, etc. Don't get me wrong as I would like to see some new toys as well, but the fix to ills of the profession shouldn't be new items that make everything we already have to date obsolete.
The problem I see is what the initial combat system never considered -- the massive tilt to the high end displayed in the Corvette, Geonosian Bio-lab, and Death Watch Bunker. The mechanics in these dungeons slice through our defenses with ease and our lighter damage puts us at a disadvantage compared with other combat professions in these places.
Perhaps the ellusive "combat rebalance" will fix some of these issues. I am more interested in seeing the combat rebalance come to light than new weapons, armor, etc. Don't get me wrong as I would like to see some new toys as well, but the fix to ills of the profession shouldn't be new items that make everything we already have to date obsolete.
Brainplay
Sat Jul 03, 2004 8:55 am
#11
Minerunner wrote:
Major Hopes:
1: New Weapons, customizable looks to the weapons, especially a Light Foil, and a craftable customizable Master weapon.
2: Removal of our redundant attack, replaced with something as usefull.
3: That the Combat Ballance will set "High End Content" on a more even footing across the board.
Supplimentary comentary.
I'm not a proponant of dual wielding, there are many reasons for this and I've gone into them indepth in the past. But I will rehash if asked.
I'm very interested instead to see what "sci-fi" can add to one handed melee fighting, namelyarm worn personal shield generators and advanced left arm gauntlettechnology used as a counterweight of sorts... perhaps one would give additional level of armor or increase the base defense caps, and the other would add to damage and or evasion chance. Remember by SWG they've had 20,000 years or so to come up with advances to these primitive fighting styles.
Above all though it's about what we as a community want, not what I want.
Frank "Minerunner" Dometrovich
A craftable "master weapon" with decent damage and AP1 would be a very very nice add. Sport foils were never combat weapons and shouldn't be now. I could just see the grief posts about being beat by a "wire weeny". How about giving curved swords the ability to be crafted in a a vibro sword with AP1 with a specific or series of looted components (devs can control rarity). And forget lightsabers! Only psg's can defend against those and most if not all npc's in this game are lightsaber vulnerable. Think about it, high defense and a great CoB at master make us hard to hit without other stacking but add in a weapon of that magnitude? The "nerf lightsaber" or "nerf fencers" posts would rival the CM boards
I tend to disagree with your opposition to dual wielding but everyone has their own opinions on this subject. Just to remind you though that every one handed weapon style ever concieved has had a dual wielding variant. Our defenses are already very good and most defense stackers pick up some fencer for that reason alone. They dont pick us for our damage potential though, they pick TK or rifleman for that 
Here's an idea. One handed weapons have always been precision weapons meaning if you wanted to an area you could do so easily. Why not give us advanced abilities past level 1 to precision strike specific HAM pools. I know you're thinking that TKM already have that but I'm just trying to start a brainstorming session here. Not to mention we already have a health hit.
Be the only class that can stack bleeds? Can be easily healed by someone with a bit of advanced medic first aid skill.
Ability to lay ALL states in some way.
Extra damage body or shield slam.
Not the greatest of ideas but ideas none the less and its a start. Lets see some brainstorming people! By the way, even after 20,000 years a primitive fighting technique is still...primitive. The only thing that changes are the weapons and armor available to them.
atjtennis
Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:40 pm
#12
I love our class so much especially for PvP which is what I primarily do. 2 things I really want to see are 1 get us a sword plz as our best weapon. I'm tired of using sticks, batons, and even our little knife.I want a 1 handed sword. Hell I'd even be happy if they took the 1hand cruved sword or ryyke blade was made AR1 and given the stats of the gaffi stick. BUt I'd prefer to see a weapon froma dungeon or quest like Rifleman, Swordsman, and Pistoleer and even carbineer all get. I'd [refer it not to be a foil looking weapon but I'd be even ok with a whip of some sort.
Secondly I'm a huge fan of dual wielding and cannot wait to see it ingame. I'd love to get anupdate ona rough timeline. Iknow they said around or after JTL but what 3 montsh 6 months 9 months how long?
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