Fencer Archive
Thread: Just to convince you.
Greetings.
This thread has two purposes.. venting of emotion and to draw attention from the community as a whole teh reality of imbalances in the brawler elites.
A clanmate of mine, known him for over a month now, he has been training himself in teras kasi as i have been training in fencer... as a novice teras kasi he sometimes couldn't even last 10 seconds to a well planned set of specials and a little luck in a duel (we fight frequently for fun)... And in short:
He recieved training in his first TKA skillbox above novice, I don't know which, today. We dueled, and... in a one minute duel in which I dizzy/posture downed him and left him immobilised for 30 seconds while I went berserk1 on him and unleashed a flurry of moves with my curved sword... after the whole one minute duel I was infact incapacitated by poisoning from his combat medic skills, but this is irrelevant as, with the single new skillbox, he instantly had such good defences that 10 minutes of pure sword strikes took only (roughly) 10% of his health... a minute of striking with an extremely high quality curved sword that can deliver 500+ damage a second to a gunrunner (a good recent example, as i was fighting them before i dueled him) dealt less than 100 damage to him. Over an entire minute of dueling, while berserk for speed, so i hit the speed cap.
For all those skeptics who still exist within the fencer community:
The teras kasi are not brawlers, they are just another imbalance that shuld be shut out and ignored until it is fixed... it is clearly hugely favoured by the idiots who created this game, and we can just hope we are brought up to their level, or they are brought down to ours.
Essentials:
They attack as fast as we possibly can. (This is fine, it's the way it should be)
They do more damage that I've seen on anything short of a high quality sliced LLC. (?!??! We are supposed to do more damage, in the raw 'rock paper scissors' rule of the speed/damage ratio of unarmed/1h/2h/polearm.)
Their resistances seem to be in quadruple of what I have or more, even in a teras kasi of weaker level than my fencer. by this I mean their defencive attributes, which essentially looks to me as if they have skin of steel that can just turn away sword strikes. (AGHHHH!!!!!!!)
They recieve good special moves (In my opinion the majority of ours are just... ack.. terrible.)
No flaming, and no disagreeing with me! 
Just feedback without screaming at me please,I know well the fencer forum is the most tranquil area with the most mature users, but hostility still tends to exist to controversial posts such as this...
So, your attacks were coming at 1 per second?
How often were you hitting?
How much "raw" damage per hit was combat spam reporting?
Any idea what the floaty-number damage was?
Was the dude wearing armor?
I got a lot of problems with the interface and couldn't get damage counts but my estimations were 5-20 damage a hit, hitting surprisingly often considering it was a teras kasi but all the same the damage was just utterly pointless.
Hitting at one a second with a 1.7 speed sword using generic attacks, after lunge+dizzying him i went berserk1 and sliced at him for around 20-30 seconds.
as stated, interface problems, I got no floaty damage count :\
I was a little preoccupied with ranting at him and incapping every 30 seconds from his mind poison and failed to check the combat tab! *slaps himself*
As for armour he was wearing a very expencive set of clothes, however he showed me this set only the other day and the only combat assistance was defence against knockdown on every piece, so he had no wearables effecting the damage.
Regardless of all else, my primary point above all is that with 0/0/1/0 (thats not accurate, i don't know which single skillblock he has) he instantly developed a complete imperviosity to my sword, and ceased to take any real damage from it, in comparison with only yesterday (apart from the fact he was kiting at a laggy time of day) when I could so easily tear him into little pieces.
hmm...my 2 creds on this is that he got Intermediate Precision Striking...though that only gives him a +5 to melee defense and shouldn't have affected your damage as far as I can tell.
Plus...knowing how freaking long it takes to get Combat xp (which is what the Precision Strikin branch requires) I kind of doubt it was that branch. The only other branch that gives increased defense against weapons is the Balance Conditioning branch...but it's the Advanced box that gives him it (+15 to unarmed toughness).
Then again...I am looking at the Prima Guide here...and I know things have changed since the book came out.
ok i know you said not to disagee but ummm have to
what skill ae you in fencer?? if you are equal skill and he DIDNT get KD for his 1 box then you should have destroyed him... your problem comes tat you have a bad dmg weapon. Curved swords a good for spd but you kill yourself unless your are a doctor then yuo still waste a to of mind doing anything. Also once you are at novice lvl of fencer bezerk 1 is not a good ratio for you specialy in a duel. In a duel you shoulg get him down with a spd sliced vibro with dizzy / lunge and once he is down switch to a dmg wep.... my preference is gaffi. Then spam onehandhit2 or bodyit2 if you have it... by time he gets up o has a chance you should have him moe then taken out. BTW a spd sliced gaffi fo me does about 300 dmg with onehandhit2 in a duel.
Also as far as defense mods a tera kasi isnt that muc bette then us. I am a trandosh and with the exception of a trandosh tera kasi i am equal to them in melee defense. We are a little lower to them in toughness but over all atm we have better mods then they do. Add them all up and find out. They comensate for this by having 2 KD moves and actualy a highe dps then us. Now ay kind of monk class should have a igher dps then a fencer. We should be number 2 in that category. Now they have over compensated the tk some but its to be expected. I petty much own any clas in melee except a tk and aganst them i can give them a good fight and win a few.
Did you also check to see if you had been intimidated.... if so then tat i another reaon for the low dmg out put you speak of specuiallly that low. Cause last time i saw tat in a duel was when we were both screwing around and nieter of us had any ranks in unarmed and dueled.
Just some comments and some theories and my perceptions. If you have concrete prove that im wrong... cool then im wrong but if its jut thoughts and observations... well tats what i have so let not argue.
Aye, let's not argue...
There is room for improvement on my weapon certainly, but for now it's the nastiest weapon I've ever touched. Itwas the bane of a hell of a lot of my victims. The only other weapons I carry - Laser rifle, Stun baton.
He simply became a god. (And I have witnessed this with less proof with other low level TK's before, they simply absorb any and all damage I can dish out and deal more with a VK than I can with a sword. Teras kasi are unbalanced to the point of.......... insanity. There is no logic to it, and they can't just explain it away, the difference in abilities between our two classes are just too radical to be error, it's either true stupidity/ laziness on the part of the developers, or intentional favouring.
T-900:
There is something to this story you are not revealing, not to mention the SERIOUS time inconcistencies. You said a 1 minute duel, then 10 minutes, then you were only wailing on him for 30 seconds...which is it!?
If he only had 1 box in the TK tree it would more likely than not be Balance or Power, but neither of those grant an insane amount of Unarmed Toughness, it all comes from the Precision line.
I am willing to bet you erred on the side of exaggeration. I am also willing to bet that you have horrible equipment compared to his (if the story is true), or do not know how to duel very well. 
The remark about damage is also utter BS unless you are wearing NO armor, are Knocked Down, Holding a Rifle, and he uses Unarmed Hit 3. Normally I can get about 300 damage PvP with Unarmed hit 3.
I am a TKM and will say I had always believed I had an "edge" on other melee classes, but after many defeats I know some universal truths.
1) Without Knockdown TK's are worthless.
2) Bleeds of other classes = Bad, TKs have no bleeds
3) There are no tremendous Pool Hits. TKs have access to all 3, but none do tremendous amounts of damage. Two-Hand Head Hit 3 whips out 900 PvP points of damage....and a Bleed.
Do not misintepret what I am saying though. I am just relating information to do with as you please. I know the Strengths and Weaknesses of TKs now, and knowing my weakness allows me to find a way to compensate...which is why I am picking up Fencer. 
I like it when someone asks to duel but specifies no knockdowns.
Sorry, no knockdown, no duel. Simple as that. I worked for that move and I'm going to use it.
If I can't use it, then I'm not going to duel as I dont think very highly of the PVP in this game anyway.
I don't know what this had to do with the rest of this thread but I thought I would throw it out there.
Vylin, i'm afraid the case is not inconsistencies on my part but lack of attention on your part.
Obviously, this is a vent, as I stated. A bit of a rant. But everything there was accurate information.
The duel was roughly one minute long. I started out with a warcry and a quick dizzy/posture down, he still had time to run around a bit and lay a few poisons before I took him to the floor. As he hit the floor I put in an intimidate1 so he wouldn't be able to cause too much trouble should he stand up quickly, and then berserk1, and layed into him with '1 per second' generic attacks (although it feels more like one attack per .7 seconds to me...). After around 20-30 seconds of his dizzied on the floor he managed to stand, and knockdown me. He failed to dizzy me so I stood straight back up after the few second delay, and layed into him with a few specials. Unfortunately his mind poison was wearing down my mind like a belt sander on a wooden ornament at this point. I passed out leaving him (without healing himself) on about 85% health, 90% action, 90% mind.
I found out since part of this was to be explained by the fact he had taken spice before our duel without telling me, to ensure he'd beat me with his new moves, but I've experience dueling in all sorts of states (including drugged) and I know it would not have such a radical effect against the 'damage' i deal. Regeneration rates, perhaps (Not that his bars were noticably moving while I watched him) but not the damage I deal to him like that.
I have fought a 0/0/2/1 (or similar)TKA before, while my friend was only a 0/0/0/0 Novice, and he was truly invincible, my sword 'could not' hurt him, after a 20 second or so duel he smashed my health bar like a child toy in a few seconds of spammed combo's. In comparison with my novice friend the guy was truly a god, as I was a novice fencer (0000) myself at the time, yet did no more than 70hp damage in the duel.
A tiny bit of angry exxaguration when explaining yes, I doubt any of you would fare too well when you are in teh blood anger fueled rant I was in
I wore a high quality Ubese shirt, and some average clothes, since I wasn't expecting a challenge.
Let's do your numbered points:
1) Without knockdown, TKA's are just left with their spammed blur-o-matic combo's that wear down your health pool faster than your graphics card can process the frames.
2) The bleed I have access to does around 50 damage every 15 seconds in PVP... Very useful!!! ^_^
3) We have some fairly nice Health pool hits, but I only have access to the number one, which is only efficient as a quick finishing move when you need to quickly slice off the last 60 health or so. I believe Two-Handed are as bad as BH-eyeshot and Commando-Flamer Dot, in that they kill you before the duels even started, no fun in that. Remember that I am a FENCER. NOT a two-handed.
On the most part I have seen some fair agreement and confirmation on my points in my thread, and I'm quite happy about that... Keep talking 
If only you were on Wanderhome...I have a Wookie novice in my PA I am training in TK (0-1-1-1), but now I see more of what I am saying so let me venture further...
Was your friend ONLY a novice? I think you said he told you he had trained 1 skill. You now say he knocked you down, meaning he HAD to have Balance. Unarmed Dizzy doesn't come until Power1.
You also now mentioned he used spice, and if it was Neutron Pixie then yes I can see how you can get frustrated since that gives a hellacious amount of life, and if you are only a Novice Fencer with a crappy weapon then I doubt you would be doing much damage. Also, was he healing himself? A knocked down opponent can still heal themselves.
To provide a rebuttle to your rebuttle...
1) I have NEVER won a melee battle by being able to successfuly Spam specials. In fact in a TK tournament I participated in I came in 2nd by simply NOT spamming specials. Those things will eat up HAM like there is no tomorrow. Trust me as a TKM and an expert on TK, without Knockdowns TK's are handicapped beyond belief.
2) YOUR Novice bleed is pathetic...yes. DUH! haha, I am talking about all 3 bleeds when stacked. Or even your TOP bleed. My brother loves to Bleed a ranged guy, then run away and let him die that way. It is funny to watch.
3) The Swordsman Mind Bleed was an example simply because I have never seen a Master Fencer. I am assuming they are comparable...although now that I think about it Bleeds are based on Damage, and PowerHammers are way stronger. So you are right there. I didn't think about that.
Regarding your armor choices...bear in mind your wrists and hands (health), head (mind), and legs and feet (action) were unguarded. Did you check the combat tab to see how much damage your shirt absorbed? And also, what was he wearing?
I remember dueling a "Master Brawler" who claimed himself undefeatable in melee combat. Well I didn't prove him wrong. WhenI asked about it he said he knew he would win without any effort when he saw I was a TK. He had taken a few various melee lines for Defense vs. Posture Change and Knockdown, and suffice to say I could get him on the ground with anything. He also had 80% Ubese, and switched weapons to Bleed several of my pools. I have never been beaten so bad....except for that time I tried to solo an AT-ST!