Entertainer Archive

Thread: Cantina Agents and Becoming a Star

Hydzar
Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:17 am
#1

I read a lot of posts on forum, i discussed in the game with a lot of entertainers, master or not, and with other professiosn before started to write on this thread.


Before entering in the subject itself, i'd like to set a few things concerning the game in which the entertainers professions are involved.


1/ The game is now quiet mature. Time has passed by and now we can have a clear view of how players interact with the entertainers professions. They come to cantina and get healed or buffedthe most quickly as they can, without a word except than "play or buff pls?", then they go out for hunt and sometimes they tip. With the episode of the holocron, they have been greatly satisfied. They were laments that it was hard to find entertainers to get some healings, and now they have a lot of them in the cantina. They have also a big advantage, almost of this people are afk so they recieve free healings which allow them to spare momey to buy weapons, armours and so on and getting doctor buffs. So entertainers may only count on some RP players willing to pay them or disccuss with them during the healing process. As they are few, most of players who has worked this profession found it the most boring in the game.


2/ This game is set for casual gamers. That means that the policy is to allow a casual gamer to have the same advantages than an hardcore player. So every suggestions that will allow adantages based on gameplay time cannot be taken into account.


3/ We are all playing in Starwars Galaxy. That means that we must think about what must be the place of the entertainers profession in such an environment. What are their motives? How they deal with the GCW? And regarding gig missions what canthey be?


First who can ask for entertainers in the GCW and what for?


- Cantina patron to entertain their customers.


- Merchant or guild to promote their shops,for advertising, for business fests with important customers.


- Politicians and Mayors to attract people in their town, tobuild up a cultural and artistic life.


- Crime lords to entertain themselves.


- Sports Evenement -racing course-


- Military show -to streighten the moral of the troops-


So Entertainers are people of connections with both the most powerfull people in the galaxy (politicians, merchants) and their darkest counterparts (crime lords). Entertainers may only be performers, but we can also imagine them as a Mata-Hari. Especially for image designer able to provide disguise to other or for themselves. They are the gate between two world and people must go and seek for them to have informations. Check the episode 2 when Obi-wan go to a cantina to find informations. Cantina are since the dawn of times places to collect informations. You want to contact a smuggler, be invited to a important ceremony,go to an entertainer and ask him a way for it.


But entertainers have their own goal too and the most common one is to become famous. The most famous they will be, the most powerfull people they will be asked to entertain and the most money they will earn.


Now the missions must reflect this:


They must take into account the skills of the entertainer and according to it the rewards too. But rewards doesn't need to be just money. As i stated below entertainers are people you go towards when you needed something. We can imagine that gigs missions can give a mix of money and a schematics or an object that will be needed in a theme park quest. So real players will have to contact entertainer. Byexample, master entertainer or masterimage designermay have obtained the schematics of the vehicle customising tools that only a master artisan can build up. Or let's have the entertaienrs give a healing mind schematics to the medical professions or the loudspeakers schematic to architect for a limited use. Without making entertainers crafters they can be providersof new schematics because they get the rewards by one of theircustomers.


Let's eventake the example of some very rare ressource in the game, Ris components, Krayt pearl and Jedi cristal. Some Quest mayask to go to a specific planet and may give such rare loots randomly. Thanks to their mission entertainer will become more fun to play. We can imagine to earn decorative object as well such as paintings. Furthermore, players may be able to find more often entertainers on further planet. And in order to avoid people to stay on the planet in order to collect tons of rare items, make those quest reachable only when take from another planet that the one you are on.


For the money part let's say that quests on the same planet will give a small amount of money from 150 cr to 1Kaccording to the level of the entertainer. And for other planet quest the same basis modified by the cost of the travel. And if a special loot is given then the amount may be halved.


Here are my two cents to this thread


Musically yours


Ankh'Su'Namun



















Ankh'Su'Namun
Master Entertainer/Musicien/Image Designer/Dancer 4043
Fudwah
Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:01 pm
#2

just a couple of suggestions, why don't they hold music festivals or somthing similar. also they could hold battles of the bands in cantinas, the band that wins gets 100k or somthing.
JeffColeman
Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:12 am
#3



This is a simple idea I had that I've enjoyed thinking about. I think it'd bring a lot of excitement to the entertainer professions, and help open up some of the crowded city cantinas a bit.


Entertainer Missions: Cantina Agents and Becoming a Star.


Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians can register with an Agent located in each cantina to receive a basic hourly wage for performing there, with the possibility of being voted “Star” of the cantina by the patrons, on a weekly basis.


Allowing performers to earn a wage for playing in a cantina and to be voted Star of the cantina would have multiple benefits for players of all levels:


Novice Entertainers would be able to earn money for doing their job: entertaining. It would help spread performers out to static city cantinas besides Coronet and Theed, as well as giving audiences an incentive to visit the other cantinas.


Novice Dancers and Musicians would be able to have a crack at the “big time” by becoming Star of a Player City or less popular static city, before vying for fame in Theed, Coronet, or the more popular Player Cities.


Master Dancers and Musicians would be given an outcome to work toward each week, once their experience/skill grind was complete. They’d still be earning money, they’d have a crack at the rare loot rewards of being a Star, plus they’d enjoy the bragging rights of being voted Star.


Dancers’ guilds could promote themselves based on the number of Stars in their employ.


Player Managers could help promote Dancers and Musicians and organize people to vote for them and manage their followings.


1. Cantina Agents.


Cantina Agents are an NPC in each cantina. Anyone with Novice Entertainer has the ability to “Register” with a cantina agent to perform in that cantina. Once a performer is registered in a cantina, they receive a a small hourly wage for playing or dancing in the cantina.


A Cantina Agent can be placed in a player city cantina by the Mayor of the city. This will give performers a reason to populate player city cantinas, and give patrons a reason to visit them.


2. Hourly Wage


A basic, simple wage is paid to any performer who was consistently playing or dancing in the cantina where they were registered. At the very lowest level, the wage is 500 credits per hour of solid performing. Grouping and flourishing modifiers are applied to the wage, just like to the experience gained from performing. So, flourishing regularly and grouped with twenty people who are all performing, the entertainer might make three times the wage, or 1500 credits per hour. Modifiers based on the dance/song performed would also apply. The higher the experience, the higher the wage.


This isn’t meant to be an incredibly high wage, to avoid replacing the need for tips or other income. It’s just meant to represent a cantina performer being paid for working by the cantina itself. The real value of registering comes once the performer reaches Novice Dancer, Novice Musician or Master Entertainer: Becoming a Star.


3. Becoming a Star


Once a performer becomes Novice Dancer/Musician or Master Entertainer, they gain the ability to compete with others to be voted “Star” of the cantina. Any character in the cantina can vote for a performer who is (a) registered with the cantina’s Agent, and (b) is present within targeting distance.


The votes are tallied at the end of each week, and the performer with the most votes is the Star for the week. They receive an added multiplier to the hourly wage, with the rare possibility of a special loot item reward: a dance buff modifier skill tape, a decorative item or a piece of rare clothing.


Players can change their vote for star as often as they like, but the only one that counts is who they’ve chosen when the votes are tallied at the end of the week. This would prevent “stacking” the ballot box or exploiting by voting multiple times.


Jeff Coleman




O.Foods Chef Vendor
(-3833 3510 near Theed) (-236 -5555 near Coronet)
Better than ever have you had your O today?
"ratio tile, the wish power are together with you" --Anakin Skywalker
"do not test me dog-boy I am not macabre" --anakka
JeffColeman
Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:16 am
#4


This is a simple idea I had that I've enjoyed thinking about. I think it'd bring a lot of excitement to the entertainer professions, and help open up some of the crowded city cantinas a bit. I've posted in the In-Concept thread, but came in rather late so I'm mentioning it here too.

Entertainer Missions: Cantina Agents and Becoming a Star.


Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians can register with an Agent located in each cantina to receive a basic hourly wage for performing there, with the possibility of being voted “Star” of the cantina by the patrons, on a weekly basis.


Allowing performers to earn a wage for playing in a cantina and to be voted Star of the cantina would have multiple benefits for players of all levels:


Novice Entertainers would be able to earn money for doing their job: entertaining. It would help spread performers out to static city cantinas besides Coronet and Theed, as well as giving audiences an incentive to visit the other cantinas.


Novice Dancers and Musicians would be able to have a crack at the “big time” by becoming Star of a Player City or less popular static city, before vying for fame in Theed, Coronet, or the more popular Player Cities.


Master Dancers and Musicians would be given an outcome to work toward each week, once their experience/skill grind was complete. They’d still be earning money, they’d have a crack at the rare loot rewards of being a Star, plus they’d enjoy the bragging rights of being voted Star.


Dancers’ guilds could promote themselves based on the number of Stars in their employ.


Player Managers could help promote Dancers and Musicians and organize people to vote for them and manage their followings.


1. Cantina Agents.


Cantina Agents are an NPC in each cantina. Anyone with Novice Entertainer has the ability to “Register” with a cantina agent to perform in that cantina. Once a performer is registered in a cantina, they receive a a small hourly wage for playing or dancing in the cantina.


A Cantina Agent can be placed in a player city cantina by the Mayor of the city. This will give performers a reason to populate player city cantinas, and give patrons a reason to visit them.


2. Hourly Wage


A basic, simple wage is paid to any performer who was consistently playing or dancing in the cantina where they were registered. At the very lowest level, the wage is 500 credits per hour of solid performing. Grouping and flourishing modifiers are applied to the wage, just like to the experience gained from performing. So, flourishing regularly and grouped with twenty people who are all performing, the entertainer might make three times the wage, or 1500 credits per hour. Modifiers based on the dance/song performed would also apply. The higher the experience, the higher the wage.


This isn’t meant to be an incredibly high wage, to avoid replacing the need for tips or other income. It’s just meant to represent a cantina performer being paid for working by the cantina itself. The real value of registering comes once the performer reaches Novice Dancer, Novice Musician or Master Entertainer: Becoming a Star.


3. Becoming a Star


Once a performer becomes Novice Dancer/Musician or Master Entertainer, they gain the ability to compete with others to be voted “Star” of the cantina. Any character in the cantina can vote for a performer who is (a) registered with the cantina’s Agent, and (b) is present within targeting distance.


The votes are tallied at the end of each week, and the performer with the most votes is the Star for the week. They receive an added multiplier to the hourly wage, with the rare possibility of a special loot item reward: a dance buff modifier skill tape, a decorative item or a piece of rare clothing.


Players can change their vote for star as often as they like, but the only one that counts is who they’ve chosen when the votes are tallied at the end of the week. This would prevent “stacking” the ballot box or exploiting by voting multiple times.


Jeff Coleman




O.Foods Chef Vendor
(-3833 3510 near Theed) (-236 -5555 near Coronet)
Better than ever have you had your O today?
"ratio tile, the wish power are together with you" --Anakin Skywalker
"do not test me dog-boy I am not macabre" --anakka
Tenchisan
Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:34 am
#5

Interesting. It, to me, strikes the core of the Entertainer profession: socialization


/sign





Kel'i Masaki
Master Commando / Novice Bounty Hunter / Novice Rifleman / Scout / Novice Medic
Caserta, Naboo; Ahazi

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day."
"A LAN party isn't official until you blow a circuit breaker."
"The aeroplane flies high, turns left, looks right."
Groovymarlin
Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:37 pm
#6

Jeff, I read this in the "In Concept" thread and five-starred you. Very good ideas! The only thing I slightly disagree with is paying more for being in a big group. Grouping should have no effect on the wage that is paid, only performing/flourishing. Part of the reason the two major cantinas (Theed and Coronet) are so crowded now is because all the grinders want to get into the biggest group possible. We need to do things that encourage people to spread out, not continue to flock to the grind capitals.


Thanks for the ideas, though, well done!





La'lepa Ofo

Master Dancer :: Master Swordswoman :: Force Sensitive
AFKing is not entertaining - support real entertainers

NewJedi
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:48 pm
#7

JeffColeman,


Nice ideas.I'll put them, and most other ideas in this thread, into my Big List O Ideas for the Devs.Would you envision that someone could run for Star more than once? Would there be any "termlimit" at all?


FWIW, in the past, the devs haven't shown much enthusiasm for "cantina salary" proposals. But yours has a somewhat different twist, so again I'll be happy to pass it on.


PoetDancer
Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:14 pm
#8

I've got a baaad feeling about this.....


While the proposal is an honest attempt at bringing the fame of the entertainer into the game mechanics, it really shells out a lot of mechanics bonuses to something other than being "entertaining" in truth. Because there are a myriad of reasons why a guild, city, or other players would have every reason to vote for someone with absolutely no entertainment value whatsoever simply to get "the goodies" that await the entertainer with the most votes. Let me give you some examples:


"I'd vote for you, Sirii, because you are the only dancer here that is live, but the guild told me I need to vote for our unattended mule."


"Sirii, I like you and all, but seeing as you are not on at 5AM, and our AFK mule is, I had to vote for her instead."


"Sorry Sirii, we know you are a good dancer and work so hard at being witty, fun, and in-character, but we in guild XYZ want the loot. So we are voting for our lot mule."


See how the voting will not provide anyone with any reason to be "entertaining," and EVERY REASON to provide some manner of a mechanics advantage-entertainment notwithstanding? Something like this will put many hard working entertainers out of a job, and reward those who simply set a macro every day.



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Groovymarlin
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:27 pm
#9

I was hoping (assuming?) that this system would include some check for AFK vs. ATK status. And one would only be eligible for the "fame" system if one were ATK.



La'lepa Ofo

Master Dancer :: Master Swordswoman :: Force Sensitive
AFKing is not entertaining - support real entertainers

Tiaga
Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:48 pm
#10

Sirii, don't take this wrong.. I think you're a wonderful entertainer and all that..

But what do you want entertainers to be? This is a game, after all. Games need mechanics of some sort. Having a loose system works when the mechanics is pencil and paper, but when you're dealing with computers you need a well defined system. However you seem to be opposed to anything that gives entertainers such a system.

You're absolutely right, there will never be a mechanic that perfectly deals with who is really entertaining. That doesn't mean there can't be additional game mechanics. Do you think the people really good at PvP would truly stand a chance against a thug in a dark alley? Or the best doctors would be someone to go to in an emergency? Part of a roleplaying game is that you are filling a role you may not be able to fill RL. Sure, if you can fill it you may have an advantage. People who are entertaining have an edge over those who are not. People who have dealt in military strategies would have an advantage in combat. But in the end, it is the character's ability that matters. The strategist isn't any good without being able to weild a good weapon.

Things like this wouldn't take away from the profession at all. They would only add to it. You wouldn't lose anything. Yeah, with this idea you'll have people who just vote for their friends. But that's what the game is all about, isn't it? Being social? Right now being an entertainer is purely a social experience. You're happy with it that way. I'm happy with it that way. There are others who are happy with it that way. But there are probably more people that have at least some achiever mentality in them. Something like this would give them something to achieve without taking anything away from the profession as it is now.



Inside my heart is breaking, my make-up may be flaking
But my smile still stays on
My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies
Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die
I can fly - my friends
SWG Entertainer.com Fashions by TK

PoetDancer
Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:59 am
#11

Tiaga dear:


What I wantour professions to be is to encourage attentive, in-character, and creative play. I think you want that too. However, you have to understand that unless the game mechanics are very carefully crafted, we will lose that very quality over things attached to our profession that have very little to do with being attentive, in-character, and creative.


I already get votes. They are called player tips, and I get a lot of them. Because I tell you Tiaga, if goodies are handed out on the basis of voting, you can be well assured that it won't be the live ones who get votes. It will be lot mules, guildbots, and AFK grinders who get them.....


And I know you of all people, Tiaga, should be disheartened at the recent Jabba leotard schematic that you cannot even wear that grants a 105% buff to the lot mule thatmacros exotic4 all day in the city cantina, over you or I who like to change costumes regularly for the showmanship value. If "superiority" is to be measured in loot, or clicks on the radial menu due to "fame voting," then people like us will be relics. I already am famous. I do not need a game mechanic to tell me I am. AFK players and unattended mules can only become "famous" if the game mechanics tell them so, because all they have are the game mechanics to exploit. Things like this make our profession about acquiring goodies, and NOT about attentiveness, being in-character, and creative....


And I have an agent in the game, she's a player character. Why do I need an NPC agent? Simply to give me something to do? There is PLENTY to do at the cantina. Most live practicioners I talk to on my server seem to be rather busy and rather happy. The only people who are really complaining are those who don't want to be entertainers, but simply want "goodies," like buffs available for free 24/7, or city cantinas, or jedis....


Because when you get right down to it, Tiaga, AFK entertainment, for all intents and purposes, is bad entertainment. And everything they have to give a player, in a game mechanics sense,is free. Indeed, everything that I have to give in a game mechanics sense is free. However, its not BF healing, buffs, and wound healing I am tipped for. Its my ability to be entertaining while I apply these things that gives me the tip....


And as far as the professions are concerned, the twenty dedicated at the keyboard players of Intrepid can survive in the current Intrepid economy because there is currently no game mechanics advantage between Master A and Master B, and therefore the master with the highest level of showmanship will be the superior one. However, if you disrupt the equity of the two by adding in a game mechanics difference, then it will be about the game mechanics ONLY, and live players will not be able to compete.


And that is why I will NEVER see the wisdom at any game mechanic that doles out goodies on some standard that can be manipulated, because it will be manipulated to the benefit of those that simply do not have the desire to play this profession in the manner by which the developers originally intended.



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Leonae
Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:00 am
#12

I have to agree with PoetDancer that the proposed game mechanic would just reward mules and PA bots. No, imho, we do not need game mechanics. You want to be a star? Then entertain! Make yourself known! As long as the twinks and alts have no mechanical advantage due to loot we can compete and survive. As soon as you need uberloot to compete as an entertainer, all the independent entertainers without some sponsor are disadvantaged. The exotic leotard is a first, wrong step in that direction.


Then there are the roleplaying considerations - not every entertainer can be a star and stay ic at the same time.


All in all a well-meant proposal, but not really what we need. Better to concentrate on the social aspects, and the roleplaying instead of the mechanics.


My tips tell me how I am doing anyway.
JeffColeman
Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:46 am
#13



Thanks,


I figured that, even without the "salary" part, the "Becoming a Star" angle would be a fun "end-game" type of content for any entertainers, from Novice Dancer/Musician up to Master and beyond.


Guilds could brag about how many Stars they have, badges could be given based on being a Star for 10 weeks in a row, or 15, or more... it could be a fun thing.


EDIT: Oh! And how great would it be if you could Register with Bib Fortuna and compete for "Star" of Jabba's Palace? Especially if the Palace themepark worked like a cantina, for healing BF and so on. Or at Nym's Palace on Lok, or wherever else would be appropriate.


Maybe in Moenia's cantina you have to talk to Borvo's guys to Register. Or in Wayfar you can't do it if your Hutt faction is too low. Little twists like that.


Jeff

Message Edited by JeffColeman on 02-23-2004 09:51 AM



O.Foods Chef Vendor
(-3833 3510 near Theed) (-236 -5555 near Coronet)
Better than ever have you had your O today?
"ratio tile, the wish power are together with you" --Anakin Skywalker
"do not test me dog-boy I am not macabre" --anakka
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