Entertainer Archive
Thread: Possible Fix to Entertainer problem?
I posted this on the Discussion Forum but figured it should be here too/instead....
Not sure if this has been posted yet. To be honest I'm too lazy to search through the gazillion pages of whines, spam, etc. to see. So if it has, tough nuggies, read it again. If not, here goes...
A couple problems with entertainers:
- They are not there when you want them
- They are at the mercy of your generosity (even with denyservice) so do not have a surefire consistant way of making money (other than doing missions and making point #1 worse).
- You have to run back to town which wastes valuable gameplay time in order to get your BF and Mind Wounds healed (or drag an entertainer with you again making point #1 worse).
Possible solution:
Give entertainers a new skill. Create a new crafted device called "Holoprojector" made by Master Artisans. Entertainers could then record performances into the device and sell them to people to take out into the field with them. They could then only be used in camps at perhaps only 50% effectiveness of what the live performance might be. This would keep the live performances in demand and not take away from the cantina experience but give an alternative way for a 'quick-fix' for those that don't want to run all the way back to town. It also gives entertainers a badly needed steady source of income.
This is just the base concept and I'm sure there's some tweaks that might be needed.
Thoughts?
I like this idea, it would give entertainers something they could sell that would be in demand to people not in the proffession. all the other proffessions have items that they can craft that is usefull to others.
But it can still work. The holos should be one-use items, and they should not have quite the level of heal skill that the creator has (thus the dancer/musician is still better). It should also cost the entertainer a big chunk of HAM and some kind of resource to create them so we don't spam the bazaar more than it is already.
And, finally, there should be no Usage XP associated with these things. It's already too easy to grind to Master. When Masters are a dime a dozen, we don't want to make them a nickel a dozen.
It's not necessarily the entertainers they hate, it's the downtime. If you give them a way, ANY way, to heal up in the field, they will never enter a cantina again.
Medics don't have this problem because only THEY can use the stimpacks they create. However, if Joe Commando over there can simply turn on a holo recording in a camp and heal mind wounds and battle fatigue by watching it, he'll never enter a cantina again. He'll never visit or tip an entertainer again. He'll simply buy holo recordings en masse from the bazaar.
Sure, we'll all make a killing with holo recordings. But if money was what I was after, I'd have chosen a different profession.
There must be a better solution.
- J
Why I said that Holo's would only BF heal at 50% effectiveness of the Live performance. I would also suggest a max charge of some sort. Idea is to allow for quick fix in the field but for the big stuff, you'd still want to go to cantina for that. I'm would not want to eliminate the cantina experiance. Just provide some relief to the rediculous amount of downtime required running back to town as well as provide the Entertainer profesion a more reliable way to earn an income.
An additional idea I had was to combine this with some DE love as well and make it so the HoloRecorder would spit out a disc which was only playable on a R2 unit with a HoloProjector device installed.
This is a pretty good idea, but I'd like to put my 2c in.
What entertainers need first and foremost are worthwhile missions. They should not have to survive on gratuities. If I worked in a profession where my only income came from tips I'd quit in a heartbeat. Furthermore, entertainers above all other classes have the best potential mission-wise. They can compete in contests, dance-offs, etc, that could have prize money and fame as rewards, making for an exciting experience. They also should be able to buff anybody, of any profession, to provide benefits such as increased HAM regeneration, so that even an artisan might want an entertainer around while he's surveying. The holo recording is a great idea, but I'd have it be part of a record deal, earned by excellence in the field, and have the entertainer or band that records one get minor royalties on each use of the item.
Friends,
Entertainers are a big problem as the game is currently constructed. They are fun, but weak, and underappreciated (/whimper). And, at times, entertainers can be immensely boring (the long, long climb to some ranks) and maddeningly frustrating (see below).
I see several solutions:
1- Remove AFK capability from skill-animating characters. This is even better that just disallowing XPs for AFKs, as at present they take up space, hog customers, tips, and XPs (all) in cantinas. They also structure groups,wander offAFK, and produce a major headache and hassle for all involved. What justification is there for AFKs in this situation? Doesn't it just penalize players who actually want to PLAY the game?
2- Do something about entertainer missions. At best, they aredumb and pay little. At worst? Let's not go there. On one level, why even bother? How many entertainers do these missions? Not sure I've ever met one who did more than one (and fewer who held on to complete that one). Dump them in favor of other fixes?
3- In at least one universe, a strike is being discussed, where entertainers will deny service when adequatetips are not forthcoming. Rather than wait for the software jockies to fix matters, the suggestion is just to take it into our own hands and turn off the tap until the shooters figure it all out (OK, they're none too bright, but...). Sure, there'll always be scabs (close cousins to AFKs?), but there are ways of dealing with that (/grin).
Not sure #3 may not be the most fun, but other options need consideration too. Not sure the likelyhyper-expensive techno-fix discussed here is best or even necessary. We must keep the gun-boys hooked on the cantinas.
Unless you start allowing entertainers to turn tricks (and who wants to write the rules on THAT?!), you really do need to find a fix.
maharao wrote:Friends,
Entertainers are a big problem as the game is currently constructed. They are fun, but weak, and underappreciated (/whimper). And, at times, entertainers can be immensely boring (the long, long climb to some ranks) and maddeningly frustrating (see below).
Excuse me? How exactly are dancers "weak"? What, you mean like in combat? Yeah, that's what happens when you take a non-combat profession. If you want to kill stuff you should be something other than a dancer. Sorry, but that's just how it is. You should be something other than an artisan or a medic too, because none of those classes are strong in combat. Maybe you mean something else by "weak" but I can't imagine what. We have more action than anyone else (usually) so we can dance and stuff a lot longer than they can.
Underappreciated? Yeah, we are that. So are medics. But we're underappreciated by the people who think the only valuable thing there is to do in a game is kill stuff and loot it. Since we aren't good at killing stuff and looting it (just as dancers or musicians) we will never be appreciated by that crowd. It's not worth it trying to "Make them respect" us. You can't. They only respect characters that kill stuff faster than they can.
Immensely boring to climb ranks? Not for me. But then, I actually like dancing and playing my character. That's the goal for me, not levelling. Since I find dancing and socializing fun, I have not ever been bored, and the only time I ever really kept my eye on the skill box bar was when I was stuck with footloose -- which I hate as a dance. Otherwise I just dance the right dance for the song, play my character, and ignore the XP. I level fast enough anyway and it is way more fun than watching skill progress bars all night...
maharao wrote:In at least one universe, a strike is being discussed, where entertainers will deny service when adequate tips are not forthcoming. Rather than wait for the software jockies to fix matters, the suggestion is just to take it into our own hands and turn off the tap until the shooters figure it all out (OK, they're none too bright, but...)
Terrible, awful, horrible idea. Don't do it. Trust me it will backfire. Here's why:
There are three types of players in this game (basically). The entertainers, the combat types who appreciate us, and the combat types who don't. Entertainers, you don't have to worry about. This leaves combat types who do and don't appreciate us.
The combat types who DO appreciate us tip and tip well, thank us, and like what we do for them. They are generous and have a tremendous amount of good will toward us, because they realize that we are sitting in a lonely cantina waiting for them to come in entirely for their benefit. We gain nothing out of them coming in and watching us except the ability to heal them faster, which again benefits them, not us. They know and understand this and they like us and tip us well. These people are in the minority but they are otu there.
The combat types who DON'T appreciate us think there is only one thing that matters in a game: combat. Killing, looting, that's all that counts. The appreciate and respect only one thing in a game: force, and whoever wields the most of it. To them, combat is all that matters, killing things is the only skill worth while, taking risks is what makes a "man" out of you, and anything that is not 100% combat related is a waste of resources and should be taken out of the game. They don't want artisans -- they want MOBS to drop PHAT LEWT. This way they can get what they want from killing (the important stuff) rather than having to actually find a weaponsmith and (heaven forbid) talk to him about negotiating prices. They don't want medics and entertainers -- they want HEALING POTIONS so they can heal out in the field and don't have to come back into town. Simply put these people will never respect non-combat professions and consider them to be "ruining the game." (Read the general forum; you will see this to be true.)
The problem is the combat types who don't respect and appreciate us never, ever will. There is NOTHING you can do to "teach them a lesson" because they don't value anything other than combat, killing, and looting. As such, going on strike will do nothing to these people, except make them go to SOE and yell, "NERF THE DANCERS!" Look at the main board, and you will see this is all they ever do. They lose in combat? It's not because they are unskilled at the game -- it's because the BH is unfair or the CH is too powerful, so they whine to nerf those classes (after which those classes whine for other classes to be nerfed... etc, ad nauseum). They're NOT going to respect you more -- they will just hate you more and want to find as many ways of not needing entertainers as they possibly can.
However, by going no strike what you will do is take those combat types who DO respect entertainers, and anger them. You will lose their good will, and you will end up with nothing. They will be bitter and resentful because of how you are behaving by going on strike. The already disrespectful combat monsters will continue to be that way.. and you'll be left with even less tips and respect than you have right now.
If individuals are being abusive, then sure, sit down and refuse to dance for those individuals. But a galaxy-wide strike? No, this is a bad idea. I recommend against it. I will NEVER honor any large-scale entertainer strike. Period.
C
Easy fix for the ones that dont want down time from hunting. Let entertainers heal in camps. In between I could run along stuck to someone being the comic relief lol. Not just musicians either but dancers too. I do tire sometimes of the cantina and would welcome accompanying my friends on a hunt. They would get to play the heros too when they have to protect my butt. Pleaseeeeeeeeee no artificial means of heal..let us live ones go on hunts!
Oh and I agree with some means of detecting afkers and disable them.
Kristania wrote:
Easy fix for the ones that dont want down time from hunting. Let entertainers heal in camps. In between I could run along stuck to someone being the comic relief lol. Not just musicians either but dancers too. I do tire sometimes of the cantina and would welcome accompanying my friends on a hunt. They would get to play the heros too when they have to protect my butt. Pleaseeeeeeeeee no artificial means of heal..let us live ones go on hunts!
Rangers have been pushing for this for quite a while. SOE seems to be set against it, because they dont' want to do anything which will decrease the need for people to visit Cantinas. (The Cantina experience is an important part of the Star Wars universe)
The latest I've heard on this topic is that the Rangers have scaled back their requestto the following:
If a Master Ranger builds a High Tech Field Base (the best camp in the game), and a Master Dancer, or Master Musician entertains in that camp it should heal battle fatigue.
This will defintely make it so that only HIGHLY organized hunting groups can heal BF in the field, and give Rangers a new perk to help differentiate them from just being advanced Scouts.
I don't know if Entertainers have been pushing for this as well. I just started a new character who is an Entertainer/Medic, so I'm not very familiar with the Entertainer issues right now....
-Ariror - Ranger/Sharpshooter/Surveyor - Tempest
-Cebo - Entertainer/Medic - Shadowfire