Entertainer Archive

I've been trying to think of simple game mechanics that could encourage entertainers to stick around the less-frequented cantinas. It seems most cantinas stay empty as 1 place per planet clusters not just holocron-grinders, but those grinding to get their favorite dance / song unlocked.

Idea 1: Rebalance group XP bonuses. This could be done by capping the bonus to smaller groups (so a group of 5 is as effective as 20) or by limiting it only to people playing the same tune / dance. Another method would be to tie dancing XP to groups, but dividing a base healing XP among the group with little or no bonus. Players seeking healing XP would do better solo or in smaller groups. Pro: Players can be motivtated to make more manageable, social groups and choose a more remote location

Idea 2: Let cantina owners offer entertainer missions. The title explains it all. Pro: it's player driven. Con: cantina owners hardly make a profit on their establishments as it is.

Idea 3: Give dancers unlockable flourishes, schematics, skills or cash bonuses for performing in X number of establishments- working like issuing badges. Pro: People will seek out new and interesting places Con: people will find every cantina they can to grind through these as quickly as they can- and only visit areas ONCE.

variant: If the bonus is cash for performing a "tour," people may continue their travels among the cantinas.

Idea 4: Player-Driven: Combat medics and doctors work together to create "incentives" to dancers to relocate to a specific location for a set number of times. Action buffs and / or mind disease parties are the most direct incentive. PRO: player driven, no programming necessary. CON: Relies on trust (that the dancer will stick around after the buff), a manipulation of game mechanics (disease parties), and the incentive of XP only works with non-master dancers.

Idea 5: Flood the areas with AFK-spamming holocron chasers, driving all sane dancers to the most remote cantinas to escape the incessant yells. This one, apparently, is already in testing.

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So, any other ideas / pros / cons we could work through?

i may add another idea, also already in testing:

Idea 6/
put up heal- and buffbots everywhere so that a travelling entertainer
does not even earn the tips for a flight back to civilization :/

Idea7: Have an anti-macro bomb and a/stopmusic /stopdancego off in cantina's every 30 minutes (preferrably every full and half hour so large bands with real performances can plan in the discontinuity. Those present need to hit a few buttons again to get started, those AFK are stopped dead in their tracks.

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chasyork wrote:

Idea 1: Rebalance group XP bonuses. This could be done by capping the bonus to smaller groups (so a group of 5 is as effective as 20).

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I have suggested this before. Make the max gain of XP in 5-person groups. But you'd also need to somehow limit the # of groups per cantina as well. If you could do that you would see lots of groups all over the galaxy rather than massive groups in 3 places. This is the one idea you put forward I agree with. The others... ugh...

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chasyork wrote:

Idea 2: Let cantina owners offer entertainer missions.

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Useless. Entertainers are socializers. We want to be with other players, not grinding missions at a waypoint.

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chasyork wrote:

Idea 3: Give dancers unlockable flourishes, schematics, skills or cash bonuses for performing in X number of establishments- working like issuing badges.

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Counter-productive. Now you have dancers grinding locations as well as skill boxes. This will increas grinding and increase zombie-hood as you force them to play for X minutes at a time in places they do not want to be at in the first place. We need to decrease the unpleasant aspects of the profession, not increase them.

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chasyork wrote:

Idea 4: Player-Driven: Combat medics and doctors work together to create "incentives" to dancers to relocate to a specific location for a set number of times. Action buffs and / or mind disease parties are the most direct incentive.

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This is totally "out of character" so no roleplayer (of which MANY dancers are) will want to go to a "mind disease party." The only people you will attract to such things are the same zombie AFK macroers who are in search of XP, XP and only XP, that already populate the zombie-villes of the current cantinas. You've got a great way here to attract grinders to an empty cantina. That's it though.

The first idea is a good one. The rest... *hack*... awful.

Sorry.

C

I assume you *didn't* mean to try to find ways that entertainers can scare all the customers out of a venue...

I've been giving a bit of thought to this lately. And BIG warning... I've been rambling this morning...

I think that there are two components to this idea:

1) Since entertainers want to entertain, we hope that people come through the door to see us. No one wants to stand around an empty cantina for hours on end with no one within 5 kilometers to stop by, and

2) Players that need or want to get entertainment don't want to have to always make the trek to Coronet or Theed to be 'entertained' by an overcrowded spam/begging center.

So, we actually have economics at work - there is a supply, and a demand. How do we get these things together?

Part of it, I think, takes entertainers who truly *want* to entertain, rather than race up levels just to be buff-babies; it's simply easier to hang around Theed in a huge group and facelessly play along for the big XP, go AFK, whatever if all you want is to Master as quickly as possible (the Dark Side of entertaining? Easier? More seductive?). We're looking for the ones who want to do good shows... to practice the craft until they can do it well. Those entertainers would need to be shown that remote venues can be rewarding and/or profitable; i.e., worth the time in-game. But are they?

My testimonial to that effect: I started dancing in Tyrena as my home city because I discovered that there were enough people around that either needed bf healing, or wanted a place to relax and chat, or brag about exploits, or look at a pretty girl, or all of the above, and there was almost never anyone else there to perform. As a result, I've actually been *much* more successful there than my couple of experiences in Coronet. The role-playing/socializing aspect is far superior in such a setting, because things aren't too crowded; I've made several good friends there already in a very short time. I've seen reasonable XP gains, though admittedly nowhere near what you see in a large group. And because of the convenient location to heal/relax/chat/brag/drool, and the fact that a real live entertainer was actually perfoming for them, the tips have been very generous. All in all, dancing in Tyrena has been a very rewarding SWG experience for me thusfar.

The XP thing is still a hitch. I assume that the additional XP from larger groups is to encourage formation of said groups, but I like the idea of reducing the number of group members to reach that max bonus. Encouraging groups is good for an MMORPG, but isn't 5 or 6 a pretty good sized group? 3 musicians and two dancers would make a reasonable ensemble for any club-sized gig, and could do quite a bit in the way of organized showmanship. Smaller groups mean that entertainers in general could spread out further, yes... even out to some of the other empty cantinas. The benefits to larger groups would be bigger, more elaborate shows... and hopefully well-publicized ones that drew a good sized crowd, which should equal more tips. Buuuuttt.. they'd have to earn that by organizing a great show, not just by getting 20 people grouped and macroing AFK.

So, let's say we find a group of entertainers who fit the bill. Next, we'd have to find out where in the galaxy there are fairly regular gatherings of players who want or need entertainers... essentially, where are there usually enough people coming and going, or hanging around hunting or questing or whatnot to keep venues fairly lively, even with relatively low numbers of people. Every server must have several 'hot-spots' that really wish they had local entertainers; but how would anyone know?

I wish I had the definitive answer. Maybe one is to encourage active cities and towns that wish they had entertainers to advertise on the forums, or beg the devs to implement some kind of billboard system in-game (a new advertising terminal to hopefully reduce spamming... yeah, I know, as if the spamming would ever cease). Maybe carefully built entertainer PA's whose goals were to train qualified expert entertainers to be sent out into the galaxy to provide R&R during these troubled times (one of my personal goals, once I can find the time and the expertise to do so), or even entire networks of such PA's to form galactic entertainment agencies. Perhaps even marquees over cantina doors, where entertainers and bands could register in advance that they'll be performing there at such-and-such a time so players know when they'll be there; no-shows for scheduled performances start to gain a poor reputation in the community and find themselves out of demand. With marquees, perhaps even tours could be scheduled, and stars born.

Look to the real-world of entertainment for ideas... in many ways, the challenges are the same. Granted, international touring acts don't go to every small town in the middle of nowhere, but they also don't play only London and Tokyo, then go home. If we can even get some entertainers to flee Coronet and Theed once in awhile, I think everyting could be just a little bit better.

Besides the various good ideas regarding XP adjustments to encourage entertainers to venture forth into the galaxy, let's not forget the financial side, as well as the boredom factor of being in a remote cantina, the only person in a 10 km radius...

I myself rely on my tips as primary income... a slow, difficult road, I assure you. And I spend 90% of my time away from the major entertaining hubs. The difficulty for me is in finding other towns and cities where other players need my services, not just for the XP, but for the income and interaction as well. If I do happen to find a somewhat populated area, everything works out great... a reasonable bit of XP, better than average tips, and some conversation and interaction to stave off any boredom.

Now, a little better XP from remote cantinas would be nice. But it wouldn't change the fact that I wouldn't be drawing any income at all, and that staring at four walls in an empty venue is boring. I'd feel like I was forcably driven to that place, which doesn't quite sit right either.


There are three things that I can think of off the cuff that might help me out in this regard...


1) I need some way of finding players who need the services of an entertainer.

If the planet map had a way to display the numbers of active players within some radius of a town or city, I would be able to seek out the areas that had at least 10 or 15 people playing in or around that area, and head for that cantina. As it is, to get out to more remote areas I have to spend the travel credits to town-hop, open the radar as wide as possible, and hope to see living, breathing characters. If it's dead, I'm spending more cash on a gamble that the next town might have someone around. If I had a way of finding the players who needed healing, I'd be out there in a shot.


2) Other players need a good way of knowing entertainers are going to be available.

I always /registerwithlocation to "announce" that I'm working a venue, but do people even check that? I'm not sure... haven't had any feedback yet. So I throw this one in as a possibilty of 'areas to improve'. No brilliant ideas for this one yet, though.


3) Assign a static payment system from cantinas/theatres/hotels to simulate venues hiring entertainment.

Some sort of x credits/hour for just staffing a location would take some of the bite out of working slower towns. If I make myself available to perform/heal/entertain out in the boonies, even if very few players stop by, at least it's a paying gig... and a better one than the entertainer 'missions'. The amount per hour would have to be carefully considered, and should probably be significantly reduced if the entertainer is AFK in all fairness to live players. As it is, I don't make great money at the major hubs... I think because tipping gets spread so thin... so locating tippers at remote venues as well as a paycheck from the venue itself is pretty encouraging.


Once again, I throw these ideas out for comment and discussion.

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Xyrdre wrote:



1) I need some way of finding players who need the services of an entertainer.

If the planet map had a way to display the numbers of active players within some radius of a town or city, I would be able to seek out the areas that had at least 10 or 15 people playing in or around that area, and head for that cantina. As it is, to get out to more remote areas I have to spend the travel credits to town-hop, open the radar as wide as possible, and hope to see living, breathing characters. If it's dead, I'm spending more cash on a gamble that the next town might have someone around. If I had a way of finding the players who needed healing, I'd be out there in a shot.


2) Other players need a good way of knowing entertainers are going to be available.

I always /registerwithlocation to "announce" that I'm working a venue, but do people even check that? I'm not sure... haven't had any feedback yet. So I throw this one in as a possibilty of 'areas to improve'. No brilliant ideas for this one yet, though.


3) Assign a static payment system from cantinas/theatres/hotels to simulate venues hiring entertainment.

Some sort of x credits/hour for just staffing a location would take some of the bite out of working slower towns. If I make myself available to perform/heal/entertain out in the boonies, even if very few players stop by, at least it's a paying gig... and a better one than the entertainer 'missions'. The amount per hour would have to be carefully considered, and should probably be significantly reduced if the entertainer is AFK in all fairness to live players. As it is, I don't make great money at the major hubs... I think because tipping gets spread so thin... so locating tippers at remote venues as well as a paycheck from the venue itself is pretty encouraging.


Once again, I throw these ideas out for comment and discussion.

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1) I've suggested it before and still support it.

2)Tie it in with the audiance size. A single window with two lists, performers in the past hour or so / audiance members in the past hour or so.

3)Definatly useful, but our best bet is to let them revamp the gig missions to pay a lot higher, point to cantinas only, and just run to a mission terminal every now and again to suppliment tips.

Add taverns to the list, and other cantina-like places in cities that have no cantinas, but have you ever seen people go into a hotel? People will tend to go to one, MAYBE two places per city to get their healing; it makes no sense to have entertainer missions force entertainers away from the crowds.

Ok, I like everyone's feedback & other ideas. By the way, I know some of my ideas are "questionable" or out of character (the combat medics offering diseases, in particular) but these were offered elsewhere and included here.

Again, the goal is to ‘encourage redistribution’ of player-entertainers to the many empty cantinas on all planets- not the clusters found in 1 or 2 cities. To do this, players need an alternative to the “group bonus” of dancing in large groups, so rewards need to be scaled to smaller groups. So we don’t get small groups all in one cantina, we need a “capacity” in the cantina that would discourage overcrowding. Finally, entertainers need to have other people present to socialize with- so (possibly) discouraging AFK might be nice.

With everyone’s feedback, I think I've narrowed it down something that seems both "programmable" and effective.

The “venue capacity”
1- Every venue (cantina, tavern, hotel) is given a base “bonus value.” Think of it as a room’s “ambiance.” It’s also given a “capacity”- the maximum number of entertainers capable of benefiting from the bonus before EVERYONE starts getting lesser values.
2- This bonus adds to the entertainer AND healing XP earned by each performer, offers marginal improvements to healing rates, and even a marginal mind-enhancement bonus.
3- If a room population exceeds the ‘capacity”, the “ambiance” goes down, and there’s less bonus for all performers. Depending on the venue, the capacity may be higher or lower.
4- Less easily programmed, but nice: Entertainers grouped together and performing the same song/dance and “band flourishes” count as “1.” This would remove penalties for large, organized performances.
a. To do this, the “count” of performers is more tough- rather than counting the number of performers currently active, each group would have to be checked to see if they count individually or as 1.
5- (optional) Group-bonuses still apply, but the bonus is capped at groups of 5-8 (devs determine- the lower the number, the better the incentive to redistribute) instead of 20.

-For example: Tyrena Cantina- kinda big, base bonus rating of “+10”, stays there for 1-8 entertainers, at 7, it drops to 5, at 8 entertaienrs, to 2, at 9, to 1, then none.

-As a suggestion- theatres could offer high bonus, but quick drop-off, encouraging “shows” where people act in near-unison. Hotels, too profit from a few entertainers rather than a mob (good bonus, low capacity). Cantinas and taverns can be lower-bonus, but higher-capacity locations- more people able to just express themselves while partying- not professional performances. Player med centers and other “viable” locations offer no bonus and no capacity limits.

The results:
Entertainers in overcrowded cantinas may decide to reap the benefit of a less crowded venue. To keep the soloist from getting bored, the bonuses don’t drop until there are a few more entertainers present, and even these penalties can be minimized by synchronizing in a “show.”

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Related AFK-Discouraging Addition: “Infrequent Spontaneous Tipper” (optional)

When surveyors are out sampling, they’ll occasionally get a dialog box stopping the sampling and informing them of a large deposit and prompting them to investigate or ignore it. Investigating reaps a larger sample and higher xp, but requires an interruption of the routine.

Venues (cantinas, hotels, etc) could have a similar mechanism- randomly, while dancing, you may be prompted with a message “a patron is impressed with your skill and has asked you to perform closer to his/her table.”

By accepting, you have the chance to gain a variable “payment” (amount varies - possibly tied to skill / flourishes)” and a trickle of healing XP.

Note: Just as surveying pauses until the dialog box is clicked, flourishes are similarly blocked when the prompt appears- the mega-AFK’er’s days would also be numbered. You could step away for a sandwich or bathroom break without fear, but not go to sleep for the night. It might only appear once in 3 hours of playing, but for an AFK zombie, that’s bad enough.

They’d have to stay closer to the screen & check for prompts.

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Nice idea with the popup boxes, but how do you think they will discourage AFKing when they don't discourage AFKing for sampling? I can AFK sample all day and night without a problem with a minor change in the macro.