Entertainer Archive
Thread: A counterpoint for the AFK debate (devs please read)
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Dialyn
Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:49 pm
#1
This is the first time I've posted in this forum....I started another account on the 14 day trial but had to switch to this onewhen I bought the game used so please disregard all other posts made by this name since this is the first time I am posting with it. The character I've been playing lately is my Twi'lek named Laurelin Telperion,and lately in the cantina all I hear about is debate over the use of macros andlot's of complaining about afk players. I can understand your point about afk spamming, it is annoying and for people with low RAM itmakes us lagg because we have to load all the text they're spewing about. Another point, is how else are people supposed to advertise what they have to sell or what skills they need? That's what /add ignore is for ^_~.Now for the use of macros in afk looping...that has gotten me really angry because I just figured out how to use them (no manual and learn as I go so no noobflaming please)and all of a sudden I'm caught up in this huge debate overafk andatk playersand I just wanted to put my two cents in as a looping macro user that is usuallyatk but enjoy the freedom of handsfree skilling.
I am a mother of a small child and frankly, Idon't have the timeto sit there and constantly press the F1 keys to flourish when instead I can use a handy macro and it can do itfor me so I don't have to worry. The whole debate over looping macro users always being afk and not being social is crapbecause itbefore I started using them I NEVER had TIME to chat because I was always at it with the flourishes. I don't want to stop earningxp because I actually want to get up from the computer and interact withthereal world and use the bathroom or god forbid do something else other than sitting and playing an online game all hours of the day. Everyone has their own preferences and you shouldn't decide for everyone just because certain purists only believe in atk skilling and play. Not everyone bought this game to socialize.....it's great if you meet someone worthtalking to but I do enjoy playing solo...I was never unhappy with the game until I started my career as an entertainer and and was thrust into the social scene that is the entertainers world. It doesn't HAVE to be social.....don't punish the afk'ers just because they have better things to do...after all we ALL paid for the game and pay the monthly fee so technically it's a democracy not a dictatorship.
If the use of looping macros is taken away, I won't have time for chatting and I'll probably play the game a WHOLE lot less since my I'm always busy with my daughter and the responsibilities that come with being a stay at home mother. I'm NOT going to threaten to quit the game though, why anyone feels the need to post threats and then still play.....if you're unhappy with the game then LEAVE it will make this place a whole lot more drama free. Since starting to play this game I've heard nothing but constantwhining about every aspect of this gameand it's really starting to get on my nerves.Please don'taffect other peoples gameplay because of your own opinion.
@@http://profiles.yahoo.com/penpenchicka78@@
Laurelin Telperion @ Ahazi
Igraine Pendragon @ Gorath
Drygo
Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:49 pm
#2
Dialyn wrote:
This is the first time I've posted in this forum....I started another account on the 14 day trial but had to switch to this onewhen I bought the game used so please disregard all other posts made by this name since this is the first time I am posting with it. The character I've been playing lately is my Twi'lek named Laurelin Telperion,and lately in the cantina all I hear about is debate over the use of macros andlot's of complaining about afk players. I can understand your point about afk spamming, it is annoying and for people with low RAM itmakes us lagg because we have to load all the text they're spewing about. Another point, is how else are people supposed to advertise what they have to sell or what skills they need? That's what /add ignore is for ^_~.Now for the use of macros in afk looping...that has gotten me really angry because I just figured out how to use them (no manual and learn as I go so no noobflaming please)and all of a sudden I'm caught up in this huge debate overafk andatk playersand I just wanted to put my two cents in as a looping macro user that is usuallyatk but enjoy the freedom of handsfree skilling.
I am a mother of a small child and frankly, Idon't have the timeto sit there and constantly press the F1 keys to flourish when instead I can use a handy macro and it can do itfor me so I don't have to worry. The whole debate over looping macro users always being afk and not being social is crapbecause itbefore I started using them I NEVER had TIME to chat because I was always at it with the flourishes. I don't want to stop earningxp because I actually want to get up from the computer and interact withthereal world and use the bathroom or god forbid do something else other than sitting and playing an online game all hours of the day. Everyone has their own preferences and you shouldn't decide for everyone just because certain purists only believe in atk skilling and play. Not everyone bought this game to socialize.....it's great if you meet someone worthtalking to but I do enjoy playing solo...I was never unhappy with the game until I started my career as an entertainer and and was thrust into the social scene that is the entertainers world. It doesn't HAVE to be social.....don't punish the afk'ers just because they have better things to do...after all we ALL paid for the game and pay the monthly fee so technically it's a democracy not a dictatorship.
If the use of looping macros is taken away, I won't have time for chatting and I'll probably play the game a WHOLE lot less since my I'm always busy with my daughter and the responsibilities that come with being a stay at home mother. I'm NOT going to threaten to quit the game though, why anyone feels the need to post threats and then still play.....if you're unhappy with the game then LEAVE it will make this place a whole lot more drama free. Since starting to play this game I've heard nothing but constantwhining about every aspect of this gameand it's really starting to get on my nerves.Please don'taffect other peoples gameplay because of your own opinion.
@@http://profiles.yahoo.com/penpenchicka78@@
Laurelin Telperion @ Ahazi
Igraine Pendragon @ Gorath
The thing is, you can still write macros, they just won't loop. For example, I have an exotic macro that is probably only 20 lines long. At the moment it is recursive. However, this particular 20 line macro still takes approximately 3 minutes to perform. If I were to make it 5 times longer, that means this macro would last 15 minutes. And, then basically all that you have to do is make sure you hit F1 or whatever key you use, once every 15 minutes. So, it really won't be that much more of a burden.
PoetDancer
Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:30 pm
#3
Laurelin:
I appreciate that this class has some meaning to you. And I also appreciate the fact that you want to reach the top of the profession. I understand that sometimes you may have to leave the keyboard and do something else. But have you ever stopped to consider that there are players in this thing who buy a second account to pursue entertainment with absolutely no intention of ever playing the character? They log it on, set the macro, and have the entity run from server up until server down. And oftentimes these characters are augmented with high priced articles that make their routines more effective.
And it is your time at the keyboard that will suffer because of this. Because when you do try to actively play this thing and explore the world around you, you'll simply fail by the standards that buffbots place for themselves, and the community demands from buffbots: constant 24/7 service at a single location. They are inhuman and unenjoyable standards for sure. But when you stop to consider that the players themselves are placing buffbots because they do not act like players, then all a player is in their eyes is a "broken buffbot."
You say that players should not care if there is unattended entertainment around. That would be well and good. However, the problem is that players are starting to really not care if there is attended entertainment around. In a world of unattenance at the keys, players do not have to follow pg 26 of the rulebook which states, "Entertainers rely on the goodwill of other players." In fact, players need only rely on the goodwill of another player's dedicated entertaining buffbot and lot mule, and they don't have to give you goodwill at all.
But if you still think unattendance at the keys is a viable playstyle, go right ahead and do it. However, do not be suprised if when you do play this thing if players all the sudden give you comments like the one I got two nites ago saying, "God I hope that's a macro! Why don'tu just **edit** and invite!" They have you over a barrel, and they know it. Because they know that they can get everything they want from you right nextdoor from aguildmate'sunattended mule.
In a world that turns unattendedness into a legitimate playstyle, a real player with real player motivations simply is treated likea broken machine. That is why if you value your contribution at the keys--even in the slightest--you need to understand that this will not be very fun for you in a world that supports unattendedness.
I know real life circumstances pop up all the time. That is why there is an AFK tag and option. However, what is the sense of playing these things when non players can do it the same--if not better--than any player?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-07-2004 06:31 PM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-07-2004 06:32 PM
Padtai
Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:33 pm
#4
The problem, at least for everyone who's thought about this a bit, is that people not only go afk with macros, they try to continue earning experience and money while they do it.
In single player games, you hit pause when called away. You do not let the game play on while your character advances without you. Here there is no way to pause the world, but there is a way to pause your own progress through it by going AFK. Or it should have paused your progress, but many people realized they didn't need to pause the experience or money gain if they wrote clever little scripts to play the game for them, using the tools provided in the game.
You will still be able to go AFK when your daughter needs you. You will still be able to smooth routine, reptitive in game tasks while playing through writing a non-looped macro.But if you feel that the ability to advance in the game when you are not playing is crucial to your desire to play this game, then I can see why you would be against the change.
Then the next question to ask you, is your desire to advance without playing because you don't like the content in the game, or because you have limited hours to play? If its the former, you can spend your time to ask the developers to add things you would enjoy so the experience gain or money is more fun to earn when in game.If the latter, then you're just asking to be allowed to cheat.
Groovymarlin
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:20 am
#5
/boggle
a. They're not getting rid of macros, just LOOPING macros. You can still write a long macro and all you have to do to trigger it is hit a key every once in a while.
b. If your daughter demandsso muchof your attention that you need to be AFK for long periods then YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME.
Good lord, where are people's priorities? Let's see...parenthood vs. SWG, hmm...somebody help me out here....
Erawia_D
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:36 am
#6
Lets see here-
If we take the oft-stated opinion that you can have 100 lines in a macro, and write a flourish and a pause as two lines (one each), and with an average 3 sec pause for the flourish to complete, that means we can have around:
50 sets of /flourish; /pause;
x an average of 3 secs/pause=
150 secs for total length of macro
=2 min 30 sec total macro length.
That means on average you can write a dance macro that lasts 2.5 minutes long, and only have to hit a toolbar key every 2.5 minutes.
This is irrelevant as to whether or not they remove /ui interface or the ability to chain macros from other macros.
How long does CoB last? 15 secs? something like that? So, 50 sets at 15/sec a set, means the above macro would last 750 secs, which is 12 minutes and 30 secs before you have to reactive your CoB macro again.
Someone else with better numbers can fix the above.
Removing recursive macros does NOT mean you have to hit an f-key for each and every flourish or CoB.
Dialyn
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:39 am
#7
/boggle
a. They're not getting rid of macros, just LOOPING macros. You can still write a long macro and all you have to do to trigger it is hit a key every once in a while.
b. If your daughter demandsso muchof your attention that you need to be AFK for long periods then YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME.
Good lord, where are people's priorities? Let's see...parenthood vs. SWG, hmm...somebody help me out here....
Where the heck do you get off telling me I'm a bad parent and question my priorities? Do you know me personally? Have you ever talked to me before? No, I think not....when does giving a contrasting opinion give you the right to FLAME me and question my parenting abilities? Apparently no one read my message...I dont care if a macro can last fifteen minutes, if there is an option to make a looping macro and kill two birds with one stone then I want to do it!! Spare me the lectures....like I said before star wars galaxies is a GAME. As far as my priorities, my daughter is my number one priority, which is why I use looping macros!!! This is the very reason why I never post on ANY message board because everyone is a #$%$$% elitist that thinks they're better than everyone else because of various reasons. I was merely offering my opinion, this is after all a free country and people can have differing opinions. Why do all of you in the profession take this game and your career in it so seriously?
Ifalina
Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:47 am
#8
First Dialyn, learn to read. Nobody questioned your parenting. Its your gaming people question, not even directly.
> Spare me the lectures....like I said before star wars galaxies is a GAME
&
>Why do all of you in the profession take this game and your career in it so seriously?
uhm... its you and allthose in favor of mindless gameplayingthat forgets SWG IS or SHOULD BE a game. You whine YOU don't get exp when you are in the bathroom, like some buffbots whine they cant make ingame creds cause they actually have to work irl. Doh!
You have a child, which is a great gift. Observe your child and notice it takes even the most simple game serious.
/whisper There are even kids that (still) have the ability to play first for fun and not first to win (be it credits or being the uber-char).
> As far as my priorities, my daughter is my number one priority, which is why I use looping macros!!!
Why not buy 5 pc's, 5 online games, put all your toons on a looping macro and play with your child in the meantime,have a great time atin the bathroom... whatever...its afterall a free country.
Dang, I think the goverment should give everyone a PC with a SWG account so theycan run a toon 23/24.. the only problem might be: what if you can't log the toon right after server-up. Its terrible unfair for those people.... let me think.... oh, why not let SOE log all the toons. The only thing left to do is let your pc run all allday. BUt pc's crash.. dang...what then? Oh, then its bill gates fault.
Erawia_D
Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:34 am
#9
Dialyn, if you don't like the entertainer professions so much that you'd rather let it run AFK then actually play, then way is your character in the entertainer profession?
Not antagonistic, just a serious question. If you think its so boring, why are you doing it?
JohnMarble
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:54 am
#10
Dialyn wrote:
Spare me the lectures....like I said before star wars galaxies is a GAME.
I hear this all the time. Actually, if Raph Koster were here he'd admit SWG is a game, but also more than just a game. The devs consciously designed features that encourage an inter-dependent community. Buffbots and zombie discourage this. It is a core part of SWG.
Ifalina
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:00 pm
#11
> O_O I swear.....you must get off on attacking people verbally on this forum, I feel so welcome!!
Don't get so excited. if you can't handle people disagreeing with you, perhaps you shouldn't post in a forum.
Tho the tone isn't very friendly on this subject (I know I've lost my sence of humor on the enormous amount of mindless AKF&Spammacro stupidity in SWG) I miss the part where people are attacking or insulting you. Don't take things so personally, especially not in a heated debate like this that deals with a fundamentalaspect of online gaming in general. This really isn't about you going to the bathroom...
You still haven't explained tho why SOE is responsible for your exp when you are reading a book (or at work, or whatever). I think I am probably very old fashioned on this: either I play a game or I read a book.
Erawia_D
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:41 pm
#12
Dialyn wrote:
Also, I am not afk all the time....I have a laptop and If I happen to do be wanting to do something else (like read a book) I just sit it to the side, but always keep on eye on it if I get pms or send invites if I'm leader at the moment. I am NOT afk 24/7 so why don't you read the post before you make a retort, you all obviously failed to do so. I know I can read....can you? Why don't you all just go and read my first post a little bit more...maybe it will sink in then.
I read your post, dialyn, and this is what I read:
"I was never unhappy with the game until I started my career as an entertainer and and was thrust into the social scene that is the entertainers world. It doesn't HAVE to be social.....don't punish the afk'ers just because they have better things to do."
Which is why I asked, if you're not liking being an entertainer so much that you'd rather be AFK (be it reading a book or whatever), why are you in the profession?
Oh, and I also read the manual and the profession selection at the begging of character creation, which *both* say something to the effect that "entertainers are the social professions of the game".
However, I do believe there is in fact room for an anti-social goth type entertainer, but then again that would be a *played* character, not an afk'ed character. I am reminded of the chinese restaurant in london famed for its rude service, that is always full. You never know, you might have more fun 'playing' that thenafkinga character that is boredwith life.
Dialyn
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:51 pm
#13
Actually, I started the entertainer career because I like it and I think it's fun!! To clarify, I only am afk most of the time at the moment because I am earning xp for master dancer, as youknow there is some pretty long stretches between each rung on the ladder O_o I do like socializing, I'm usually in a group and enjoy talking about
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