Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainers, know your role and quit whining.
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VooDooK
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:37 pm
#1
I still can't believe there's still a lot of AFK entertainers out there, spamming that they are on auto-invite, or we should tip AFK entertainers or watch them.
So I won't support'em. But I'll take advantage of them... why? Cause the non-AFK Entertainers are acting like AFK Entertainers.
Imagine this, you have a lot of BF and lots of Mind wounds. You need an entertainer and you're on the Mining Outpost of Dantooine.
There's two entertainers. One with (AFK) over their head, another without. Of course, I'll watch the non-AFK one. I wait... I decide to say "Hi" since the unsocialable Entertainer refuses to talk. She says Hi as a reply. I say how are you... no response? I then watch the AFKer. A minute later she reponds "Tips are greatly appreciated"... I tell her that I'm watching the AFKer, she complains and asks me why...
I tell her as nicely and simply as I can:
"You were as "AFK" as the AFKer, and at least the AFKer won't complain after I leave without leaving a tip"
She complained back.
What I'm trying to point out is DON'T COMPLAIN ifwe don't tip you! I've been playing for 7 months, I've never seen the Entertainer, Dancer and Musician profession become as boring as it has become today.
Before holocrons. Entertainers were heartwarming and nice people. You'd enter the Cantina, they would great you, sometimes talk if they weren't in tell hell... heck they would do much more than just Macro-loop-flourish! Those are the entertainers that deserve my hard earned credits. Not some lazy entertainer that's in front of their keyboard just macro-loop-flourishing acting bored as hell and expecting to get a tip just because I took the effort to watch them for a couple of minutes.
Know your role. You want tips? Then earn it. macro-loop-flourishing does not mean you earn it. Just like SOE always said, the Entertainer profession is a sociable profession! Sure you are there to heal our minds and BF. But if you aren't even going to at least say "Hi" when we come into the Cantina, don't complain that I go towards the AFK Dancer first and not you.
Drygo
Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:02 pm
#2
I think the majority of active entertainers/dancers/musicians who read and post to these forums would 100% agree with you. You're preaching to the choir.
If you were to ever watch me and say hello, we'd have a conversation. I realize we're on different servers, but my point still stands. The problem is that because of the plethora of buffbots/afk'ers/entertainers-who-don't-care that are out there, people tend to lump us all into the same character. Our profession was tarnished by the hologrind, and the simple fact of the matter is that the hologrinders, buffbots, afk'ers, and people dance while watching TV or what have you, greatly outnumber those of us who care. I suppose it's hard not to lump us all together when 95% of the "entertainers" out there act the way they do.
You will *never* see me with a spam macro while I'm at the keyboard. The entertainer you came across didn't deserve a tip, I seriously doubt I would have tipped her either. And, should you ever come across one of my characters and I don't respond to you? By all means, do *not* leave me a tip...I will not have earned it. And, I suspect the vast majority of entertainers that read and actively respond to these forums would agree with you. So, try not to be too hostile towards us, we're right there with you. 
We hate the afk'ers, buffbots and non-responsive presumably atk entertainers just as much as you do. The problem is, they aren't reading this.
We hate the afk'ers, buffbots and non-responsive presumably atk entertainers just as much as you do. The problem is, they aren't reading this.
PoetDancer
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:53 am
#3
Oh VooDooK! You are the type of player I love to service! Because you understand what "the thing we sell" is, and you are the type that is more than willing to support entertainers that are doing a good job. Believe it or not, a lot of us still view ourselves in the traditional ways. I work hard for the money, and a lot of others do too...but its harder and harder to find us. But you are right. Merely being at the keys doesn't meanan entertainer hasa right to a tip. And moreover, it is us who should be entertaining you, not the reverse. Here's a link of minethat makes this point:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dancer&message.id=20262
And to all you entertainers here, let me in on the little secret unattended AFK characters are loathe to share: they are BORING. What's more, they spend far more time than they should on these boards justifying why their boring play is good play.
But here's another thing, players don't have to tip. And the moreonedemandsa tip, the less inclined they will be to tip you. Now is it easy to earn credits by entertaining? Far from. I see it as the toughest job in the game. But its possible. I and many others do it every day. But here's the nitty gritty of it:
1) Players will tip you if they know you are working.
2) You can't be working if you are not at the keys.
3) Players will not know if you are working if you do nothing an unattended character can't do.
4) The work you do has NOTHING to do with BF healing and mind wound healing.
5) The work you do has EVERYTHING to do with being attentive, observant, immersive, and using your tools properly.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 06-14-2004 08:54 AM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 06-14-2004 08:55 AM
Groovymarlin
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:20 am
#4
I don't disagree with you, although your advice to "quit whining" is perhaps harsh and unwarranted. Personally I think we gave up the whining months ago. Those of us who haven't quit the entertainer professions all together either carry on in stoic silence, or work as community activists to enhance our professions and image in a positive way.
In any case, I'm always glad to know there are still "combat types" out there who remember the way the cantinas used to be and yearn for the return of those days. You might want to have a word with your compatriots though. I've seen way too many a commando or fencer post on these forums that they "prefer an AFKer" and they "can't stand entertainers who try to socialize," and "Sorry Barbie*, I'm not tipping you, you should just be glad you're getting entertainer healing xp from me." (Hey dude, I mastered dancer months ago. I don't need your xp anymore, thankyouverymuch.)
(*Barbie, in this case, was used as a derogatory reference to the plastic doll with unrealistic proportions and and an un-anatomically correct boyfriend.)
If you truly appreciate at-the-keyboard entertainers who socialize, roleplay, and entertain; then take your buddies aside when they make those comments and advise them of the error of their ways. 
Gah, edited because I hit "submit" too soon. I also wanted to say, I never EVER ask for tips. In fact, when I'm asked how much I charge for a buff, I won't state a price. I tell people "whatever you think is fair." If someone is an obvious noob, I tell them it's free. Entertainers who ask for tips, whether in an AFK macro or live, are a pet peeve of mine. I urge you not to tip anyone who dares say "tips are appreciated." Why?
1. Everyone knows tips are appreciated
2. Begging for tipsis tacky and unnecessary
3. Begging for tips is embarrassing to real entertainers who never do it
4. Begging for tips tarnishes our reputation and feeds hostility towards all of us
Thanks.
Message Edited by Groovymarlin on 06-14-2004 12:27 PM
Durinthiam
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:49 pm
#5
people like that stated in #1 are the reason why novice entertainers are ignored and get stressed and leave entertainer because of lack of money, I for one would love to sit on an outpost and greet and chat while healing BF all day if people tipped, but the only time i have been tipped as an entertainer is when someone asked me "you got any money for some new clothes?" lol bring on the revamp!
Draj
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:22 am
#6
Granted just started playing again, but this time around thought I would give the entertainer a try. Going the muscian route, and well at least for now, I wont macro. I enjoy trying to get good flourish combos and paying attention. Plus I like the interactive part and talking to folks when they come and listen.
One thing I usually will do, is go play away from anyone else. Yeah I dont get as many folks watching me, and it will be slower, but I like the solo musician look. Plus I am a Bothan, and just to good looking to be surronded by others.
Also, though from what I have heard, it really doesnt do anything. I will leave the Cantinas and go play thru out town. Say outside Starports and Shuttleports, and then just wonder around, and pick new spots. To bad folks can't get anything from me playing though there. But I like the feeling of being a street musician.
sweatyclimber
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:16 am
#7
voodook glad to know ahaziens still feel this way. I think you will find what your lookin for from any member of FFWB or LIVE as both those bands consists of the players your talkin bout.
fete you should seek out these two bands as well
KeyTokikoMima
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:10 pm
#8
VooDooK wrote:
I still can't believe there's still a lot of AFK entertainers out there, spamming that they are on auto-invite, or we should tip AFK entertainers or watch them.
So I won't support'em. But I'll take advantage of them... why? Cause the non-AFK Entertainers are acting like AFK Entertainers.
Imagine this, you have a lot of BF and lots of Mind wounds. You need an entertainer and you're on the Mining Outpost of Dantooine.
There's two entertainers. One with (AFK) over their head, another without. Of course, I'll watch the non-AFK one. I wait... I decide to say "Hi" since the unsocialable Entertainer refuses to talk. She says Hi as a reply. I say how are you... no response? I then watch the AFKer. A minute later she reponds "Tips are greatly appreciated"... I tell her that I'm watching the AFKer, she complains and asks me why...
I tell her as nicely and simply as I can:
"You were as "AFK" as the AFKer, and at least the AFKer won't complain after I leave without leaving a tip"
She complained back.
What I'm trying to point out is DON'T COMPLAIN ifwe don't tip you! I've been playing for 7 months, I've never seen the Entertainer, Dancer and Musician profession become as boring as it has become today.
Before holocrons. Entertainers were heartwarming and nice people. You'd enter the Cantina, they would great you, sometimes talk if they weren't in tell hell... heck they would do much more than just Macro-loop-flourish! Those are the entertainers that deserve my hard earned credits. Not some lazy entertainer that's in front of their keyboard just macro-loop-flourishing acting bored as hell and expecting to get a tip just because I took the effort to watch them for a couple of minutes.
Know your role. You want tips? Then earn it. macro-loop-flourishing does not mean you earn it. Just like SOE always said, the Entertainer profession is a sociable profession! Sure you are there to heal our minds and BF. But if you aren't even going to at least say "Hi" when we come into the Cantina, don't complain that I go towards the AFK Dancer first and not you.
Hmmm.. I see your point, but I tent to disagree on one point.
You should *always* tip your entertainers, AFK or not. They're providing you a service, even if it's at very little cost to them it's important to you. I honestly don't care how little you tip, but you *should* tip something. The only time you shouldn't tip an Entertainer, is when *you* are that Entertainer.
bawler14
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:15 pm
#9
VooDooK wrote:
Before holocrons. Entertainers were heartwarming and nice people. You'd enter the Cantina, they would great you, sometimes talk if they weren't in tell hell... heck they would do much more than just Macro-loop-flourish! Those are the entertainers that deserve my hard earned credits. Not some lazy entertainer that's in front of their keyboard just macro-loop-flourishing acting bored as hell and expecting to get a tip just because I took the effort to watch them for a couple of minutes.
Yes, I agree with you that entertainers were once heartwarming and nice people... they still are...but much of our nice side is buried under a large heap of bitterness. You'd be bitter too, if your profession ...got no dev attention... blown off by the rest of the player base... taken over by AFK's... had it's static money flow stolen by buff bots... had always had broken quests. I am sorry it has come to this... There are still good entertainers out there... if you take the time to look... but actions like not tipping us and watching the AFK's only contribute to the bitterness. If you want quality entertainers..
Be a quality patron!
Rookgraawl
Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:36 am
#10
*tsk, tsk*
My favorite thing in the game is entertaining. I don't see how anyone can sit there and be non-responsive while at the keys as the original poster described. That's horrible.
At worst, I'll notify Spatial if I'm stepping away for a second, or indicate that I'm in tell-hell, etc.
Upon my own completion of 32 professions, I am sooo looking forward to getting back into the cantina to entertain. I imagine that the entertiner-grinders will be disappearing soon, too. It will all be better soon!
Kagura
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:39 am
#11
Ok, I *have* to say this. :-) I talk to players, I try to keep up the chatter. There is another side to the problem, the player who does not want to talk to the entertainer, who, in fact, will react negatively. Not that that stops me, but it might discourage some others. Sooooo, what do you do about it? The next time you see some yo-yo hassling an AKB entertainer, SAY something. Let them know that they are being a churl. When you see someone moving my nalagorn, express displeasure. Let the entertainers know that they are valued with something besides tips. Let them know with your support.
Ramala, Master Entertainer, Master Musician.
"Don't shoot the piano player. He shoots back."
seannapiersean
Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:44 pm
#12
agreed, and agreed. im up and coming through the entertainer tree, almost to master and just love being in the same bar for a week and building a repor with the locals. Its like cheers, when sobi comes in and i /shout SOBI!!! and he /shouts BOSOKO!!! you know that youve connected, even if on a basic level with someone. I hate afkers, but will confess to being guilty of both cardinal sins, but in the name of progress, im inpatient, sometimes during the day i will let my guy afk macro, but, to stick with my scruples, i always go to the back room in the cantina, where no one goes. So, if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? I still feel a little guilty, but, i dont have loads of play time and id like to explore more musicaly, but at least i have the decency to take it out back. Concerning tiping, im not here for the money, if i wanted money i would grab a gun or axe and go hunt for a living. Im here for the people/music/interaction, often times if someone is new and they tip a small ammount, and i can tell theyre new, il tip it back, plus a little (if i have it) and ask them if they enjoyed the show...
SIDENOTE: wouldnt it be nice if there was an instrument that they would let you play while moving, i mean, it wouldnt buff, it wouldnt huff, but you could walk through the streets playing sweet sweet music... doesnt that sound nice?
KNOW YOUR ROLE AND QUIT WHINING
Echinacea
Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:20 pm
#13
While I appreciate that you want interaction, I'm here to tell you that I'm not an aggressive, in-your-face entertainer. When I play publicly (which is just about never anymore), I greet people with default emotes when they come in so that they know I'm there. If there are other people in the Tavern, Hotel or Cantina, I'm likely to be talking to them so it should be obvious I'm not AFK. When I am, I try to put up my tag.
However...I'm not going to try and draw you out if you come in and don't say anything to me. I react. I'm not going to try and be pushy about chatting. If you come in, park your butt on the floor in front of me (I hate that...sit in a bloody chair if you feel the need to sit, but don't sit on the floor!) and go AFK...I'm not going to work any harder to be socialthan you are.
And dammit, if you're using my skill to fix something that you can't fix yourself...I don't care if I am AFK. It's rude not to express thanks somehow. That doesn't need to mean a tip. You could send me an e-mail telling me "thank you" for having been there when you needed my help.
It's not getting even 'thank you' so often that makes me shy away from performing in public. I'm not a floormat to wipe your BF and mind wounds onto. Treating all of us that way is why there will be almost none of us left after the questable Force Sensitivity...and 80% of those will be AFK buffbots or those on their way to that status. Another 10 or 15% will be complete n00bz who don't know how poorly treated Entertainers are by the player population. So when you have 800 BF that you can't get rid of, don't come walking up to me and demand to be spoonfed social interaction, then get pissy when I don't hold your hand through a simple conversation.
So, VooDooK...while you're telling me how to play nicely with others, I'll give it right back at you: treat people the way you would want to be treated were the situations reversed.
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