Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainers, know your role and quit whining.
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PFD
Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:30 pm
#14
I agree with you on the afk not being entertained but I HAVE SEEN too many times when players are sexually harassed when entering conversations and as in real life can't get the entertainer to file any type of complaint.The devs should take the ULTIMATE hard line with players doing that type of thing.Yes i was grinding out professions but i still like being live sometimes we are engrossed in guild or group conversations and since most players never tip ever you can understand being ignored. Master Entertainer,Musician,Dancer onChilastra no holo's or other professions done since DEC 2003.
En-Sabah-Nur
Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:03 pm
#15
I will agree with the rest. I know full well you want me to say hello and and I will if you're nearby but I'm still a bit annoyed with the AFK'ers around me. Had one that was upset because he was kicked out of the band in theed while he was AFK. I'm sorry but I will never be sympathetic to them. If I didn't love entertainer so much to level my Twi'lek to dancer after dropping all of Torax's entertainer I would have left it all without batting an eye. Entertainer used to be something fun for the more social players and in a few publishes it could be again. We will have to wait and see. For now I will not "Know my role and quit whining". I would treat you with as much respect and expect some in return.
Gooney
Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:45 am
#16
Beery wrote:
"It's not getting even 'thank you' so often that makes me shy away from performing in public. I'm not a floormat to wipe your BF and mind wounds onto."
Exactly the way I feel. I still perform in public because I just like performing, but I shy away from providing mind buffs. Evenwhen I didprovide them, Ifound that many of my customers didn't think any better of me for my services, and they resented any tip they felt the need to give me. SoI decided not to give the service anymore.
For money, I decided to learn ID - at least I can charge for service there, and if the customers don't like my fee (which is comparatively low), they can go elsewhere. As a strugglingentertainermy skills were overwhelminglyexploited for freeheals (meaning I usually didn't even get a 'thank you' in payment for my services)and I wasresented for the fact that I existed on tips (even though Inever asked fortips). I was also resented for the fact that other entertainers were AFK much of the time, even though I rarely performed while AFK. Finally, I was resented purely for the fact that combat professionals didn't like to take time out from killing in order to visit a cantina for heals. It was a no-win situation, so I gave it up. Now I dance and play only when I want to.
If the combat people feel thatthe entertainers are whining too much or AFK too much, well, theybrought this situation upon themselves. If they had shown any respect - ANY RESPECT -for uswe wouldn't be in this situation, and there would be cantinas packed with live players happilyhealing and buffing, rather than an entertainer community which is either cynical, apathetic, downright pissed off, or simply absent. If all you can find are AFKers, blame your fellow combat professionals for driving away the people who cared enoughabout entertaining to be there in person, onlyto have toendure endlessinsults and disrespect as a reward for their conscientiousness. Your fellow combat professionals abused the LIVE entertainers, and now you're complaining that only AFKers are there for you??? I guess no one ever taught you about cause and effect, or that any action results in an equal and opposite reaction.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-20-2004 09:14 PM
Nonsense Beery, I hate to disagree with ya but respect doesnt really come into the equation. IF your seeing disrespect you have to please remember that there is a very large population of young punks playing. The rest of us (probably half the population) are adults and follow the norms of common courtesy.
I understand where the first poster is coming from, although I think that his post was uncalled for. After all the only entertainers reading this forum are the ones actually enjoying the Entertainment profession. Entertainer right now is in a fairly unique and undesireable position. The profession has been totally gutted by the Grind, moreso than any other, just for the reason that the first person felt motivated to post. Entertainer is before anything else a social profession. Due to the full feature macro system it became trivial to master.
These false masters and those skilling up is what has put Entertainer in the position its in now, not the combat proffs. It was the system itself that destroyed it.
Its not all bad though, in the next couple of weeks we should see an end to the holo-dancer/musician and a return of the true entertainer. If there is whining on either side at that point...well then everyone can gripe but until then its all pretty much wasted frustration.
-Gooney
Message Edited by Gooney on 06-22-2004 02:46 PM
Beery
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:39 am
#17
"I hate to disagree with ya but respect doesnt really come into the equation. IF your seeing disrespect you have to please remember that there is a very large population of young punks playing. The rest of us (probably half the population) are adults and follow the norms of common courtesy."
I agree. But I think the problem is that the half of the population you characterize as 'young punks' (and I agree with the characterization) tend to be drawn to the combat professions to a somewhatgreater degree than more mature players. Many of these youngsters tend towards the 'leet' stereotype - they are here to shoot stuff, pure and simple, and to become 'uber' so they can 'pwn'. This means thata bigmajority of the players we see demanding fastbuffs are these 'leet' punks. In my experience these folks are the ones who have least respect for entertainers - they don't understand why anyone would want to dance in a cantina all day, they think we're all "wimps", "gay",or "stupidgirls" (to them,computer gamesshould bea red-bloodedguy's pursuit), and theydon't want to be bothered to take time out from killing toheal anyway. Now obviously my opinions in this regardare generalizations - not every leet is a punk, not every 12 year-old is immature, and not every punk is a leet, but generalizations areusually true when we're talking about groups of people.
"...Entertainer right now is in a fairly unique and undesireable position. The profession has been totally gutted by the Grind, moreso than any other, just for the reason that the first person felt motivated to post."
Amen!
"Entertainer is before anything else a social profession. Due to the full feature macro system it became trivial to master. These false masters and those skilling up is what has put Entertainer in the position its in now, not the combat proffs. It was the system itself that destroyed it."
Well, I think both issues play a major role. It is, after all, the leet dudez (and I agree not all combat people are leet dudez - it's leets who exhibit the attitude I'm reallytalking about)who are thevast majority of those who areAFK hologrinding towards master right now. These folksdon't seem tohave enough respect for the profession to even try it out properly. Many of them have been AFK since day one of their entertainer training, and most probably got their macros set up before they started their first dance or played their first tune. This implicitdisregard is at the heart of the problem between entertainers and the combat professions - if allleets (who I believemake up a majority of the combatclasses)see when they come into a cantina is a chance to heal, they're not seeing me, they're not playing the game as it was intended to be played, and they're running in and out without even giving me the equal respect that a 'thank you' would bestow. While macros and hologrinders have their place in creating the bad situation we're in, the inability of leet dudez to see me as an equal member of the game community (and you can see the attitude everywhere, even on these forums where leets often argue that entertainer issues aren't important enough to take a place in line inthe development schedule) has its place in creating the situation we're in too.
"Its not all bad though, in the next couple of weeks we should see an end to the holo-dancer/musician and a return of the true entertainer. If there is whining on either side at that point...well then everyone can gripe but until then its all pretty much wasted frustration."
Well, whining is one thing. What I'm doing is engaging in constructive criticism,trying to get our issues noticed and respected in the wider community,and hopefullypresenting some workablesolutions.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-22-2004 11:44 AM
Sjafi_VuP
Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:21 am
#18
I have only been playing for a few short days, but really have enjoyed being an entertainer. Because I don't know all the tricks of the trade, I have spent a lot of my time talking to other entertainers, as well as being helped by some really nice patrons of the Cantina. I have to say that I don't want to be overtly pushy to be social to anyone, but I am there to publicly chat with anyone who wishes to do so. I am NOT there to engage in any sort of inappropriate discussions or anything even remotely personal.
Anyway, I hope I get to meet a few more people in this profession, as most of the people I have come in contact with, were afk'ers. I came from another MMORPG that had no tolerance for the afk'er who gained skill while gone. I just assumed that ALL the games were like that, but I have been proven wrong.
Gooney
Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:56 am
#19
Beery,
You are of course right about the majority of the "l33ts" with regards to their behavior towards entertainers.
In my experiance what you talk about is indeed true. Most combat types see entertainers today as simply battle fatigue and mind healers, nothing more nothing less. Although, Im sure they do feel some pitty for their combat brethren who have given up their guns for dance slippers for the sole purpose of trying to unlock. Most of the younger ones doubtlessy look onentertainers and those that play themwith something akin to contempt. Their little minds cant wrap themselves around the concept of playing a game for anything other than the chance to pit themselves against the terrible beasties and other combat proffs.
This type of player you wont be able to influence in any way, they simply can not understand the concept. Most of us that do sympathize with the entertainers plight; or were once entertainers ourselves have come from several years worth of gaming experiance in many different MMOGs. Mostly it will be time that will change their understanding and nothing more, the grind has definatly short-circuited their maturing process by confirming their initial beliefs. Once the grind is over, these attitudes will very likely begin to change, but it will be a long process. It will of course require that we older players enlighten the younger ones, but you know teen-agers you cant tell them anything...they already know! 
. So we'll just have to hope that they grow. On the bright side, it is very unlikely that the "L33T" types will play the game for any significant amount of time. The combat revamp will absolutly gut how they play now, forcing them to re-evaluate how the game is played. Right about the same time WoW will launch and most will bustle off to the next uber game.
. So we'll just have to hope that they grow. On the bright side, it is very unlikely that the "L33T" types will play the game for any significant amount of time. The combat revamp will absolutly gut how they play now, forcing them to re-evaluate how the game is played. Right about the same time WoW will launch and most will bustle off to the next uber game.As entertainers and craftsmen of items not directly combat related it is our burden to inform new or younger players, transfer some of the passion that you hold for your profession to someone young and you just may make someone elses game experiance just a little better.
SWG is here for the long haul, of that I am firmly convinced. It has a strong mythic rich "world" and oodles of fans of the original series. If EQ could last as long as it has being based solely on a relativly new fantasy idea think about something based upon a story line that has spanned 3 generations. (my fathers, mine, and my children) My daughters already like watching the little green guy with funny ears. This Story has power. As long as SWG gives a chance to take part in this story it will be around for a long time.
For me personally it was refreshing to make my way in a game solely by doing somehing other than slaying beasts. Course that is exactly what I do now but, its not what will keep me in this game in the long run. It will be like for many of us the social aspect.
-Gooney
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