Entertainer Archive
Thread: Sultrina's rules of the road
I have been watching the steady decline in entertainers since the last phase of beta. Don’t get me wrong we have some fine people in this class, but as whole entertainers have become rude, whiney and noncreative. In part I blame the AFK macro people who claimed they weren’t hurting anyone. Well guess what you are. Your now masters and new players look up to you. The problem is you haven’t spent your time developing social skills. You haven’t spent this time developing an act. You haven’t spent this time working on songs that sound good or dance routines that look good. You chose to spend you time AFK leveling. The result is the only advice you have to offer the new guys is how to macro. Now a good musician does write songs and commit them to macro so I’m not saying all macros are bad. I’m referring to the constant barrage of flourishes in no particular order to grind out XP. I’m talking about annoying macros with text and emotes embedded in them. I’m talking about being a live dancer and having to work around your rude, non responsive butt parked in the middle of my work environment. I’m talking about AFK macro dancers drifting all over the dance floor and stepping my poor toes. Please for the sake of the class think about the show first and your XP second. Just because Sony hasn’t thought of a way to stop you doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. If you insist on doing this at least park your self off the main floor and leave your text and emote spam at the door.
Thank you,
Sultrina
One trend I don't like is people who try to optimize their action spent vs xp gained. They end up doing just a few flourishes with many measures of no flourishes. I actually like to listen to the music most the time, but more and more I've been doing /stoplisten. Invariably you end up with a band full of woodwinds (Slitherhorn, etc) just going wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa to starwars1. Even if there is a real musician there flourishing, it is drowned out by the sheer mass of slitherhorns.
Sometimes if it's a bunch of AFK musician I'll stop dancing, pull out an instrument and start bandflourishing. Net result is it sounds better, big win. They use action faster causing them to stop playing, then I can go back to dancing with the real musicians playing.
Rude, whiney people are a part of every class, and every MMORPG for that matter... AFK macroing does not cause people to be that way... a lot of people just are that way. The "steady decline in entertainers" you refer to, I would bet is actually a steady decline in the overall population, which wouldn't be unexpected to me when you go from beta to release. Beta communities, for many reasons, tend to be much closer knit than the general population of a game after release.
As far as this comment I keep seeing come up about "good entertainers write their songs down" and so forth... I just want to point out that you can't really write a song when you only have 8 bars of music to work with, which all follow the exact same chord pattern except for the intros and tags. Anyone who has played in a band consisting of one person playing each instrument available can attest to the fact that random flourishing actually adds MORE variety than someone writing a song down and trying to /bandflourish it. Bandflourishes are very limiting, and as I pointed out, since all the flourishes are in the same key, the random flourishes work out great... especially if one person does flourishes at a time occasionally, as sort of a solo effect. However, I would argue strongly that writing down sequences is, if anything, a waste of time.
Fire away. 
PS- if anyone wants to try and prove me wrong and argue how writing songs is more important than the actual makeup of a band - go ahead.
Hijo wrote:Rude, whiney people are a part of every class, and every MMORPG for that matter... AFK macroing does not cause people to be that way... a lot of people just are that way.
While I think you are correct in general about this, it is also true that many AFKMers have no idea either why individuals around them get annoyed by what they are doing, and no clue that what they are doing is harming the class.
As an example, I have a friend from the Moenia cantina, also a dancer, who rarely AFKs and is a good RPer. At one point when it was just the two of us I made some sort of grumbling remark about how the AFKMers annoy me. She doesn't read this forum I guess so she had no idea what I was talking about. "What's the difference if they do it or not?" she asked.
I proceeded to explain the reasons I don't like it, and why many people on this forum have complained about it. After the explanation was done, she decided that she agreed with me. But before that conversation, many of the problems we have discussed at length that are caused by AFKMers just never occurred to her.
I guess what I'm saying is that, yes, there are rude and selfish people, but there are also other AFKMers who just are clueless, and if you ever told them that what the were doing was annoying, they would be surprised, and upset with themselves for bothering others, and they'd cut it out.
C
It is correct that there are going to be problem players in all classes of all games it's a fact of the internet.
However, when Shadowfire opened I took the oppertunity to start an artisian on a fresh server and for the last two weeks I've been playing on Shadowfire almost exclusively. I have been watching the various entertainers around me since the server started and unlike my memory of the beginings of Tarquinas where the community was very close and enterting a cantina at 3 am meant talking to other bleery eyed folks that were at the keyboard long term for skills, I find I walk into more and more of the cantinas at any time of the day to see the majority of the entertainers afk. There are a few exceptions to this I have been impressed by several of the performers and I return to those cantinas when possible.
On average I have been greeted when walking into any cantina on the galaxy 1 in 10 times. I have been thanked for tips given 2 in 10 times (I don't tip folks that are obviously afk).
I always enjoyed the cantina atmosphere and I thought that as an artisian I would be able to sit in the corner of the cantina crafting away and enjoy the atmosphere, instead I run from the cantina in disgust assoon aspossible after I am healed as there is no atmosphere.
I agree there is no fun as a patron in a cantina that everyone is afk in. Cantinas are about being social. I've been in ones that are hopping, and its a blast.
On the other hand, I've played around a bit with the entertainer profession. I reallly enjoy playing music and in small doses I think its really fun. I'll play a bit to heal myself or someone in a cantina and leave. I'll play for my friends, both to heal them and as entertainment. I don't gain exp super fast, but it does add up over time
Playing in a slow Cantina is boring. When patrons do come in they don't talk to you much and then they run out without tipping. This isn't true for eveyone I've met. Many people have tipped me as well.
I think people afk macro because playing the same song or doing the same dance for the hours needed to gain your next skills can be mind numbing. I don't play like this, but many people focus on a goal. So I can see both sides a bit. I think as a whole, the community would be better without the afk macros.
More variety in the entertainer and dancing parts might work to make the profession more fun to play for long periods, but for a start I think its not bad.
I agree Kisedd.
As a-hopefully-soon-to-be Master Musician, I can only agree.
Yes it's very tiresome to listen to the same music over and over again, therefor when I'm leader, I many times make a demand that Folk can be played, just so there can be some variation. I've never been using an AFK-macro, but I do have a macro with up to 20 flourishes in, that I use, instead of pushing the flourishes 20 times. When I play this macro, I sometimes use it to go get something to drink, but in other way I'm never AFK.
Never being AFK is actually tiresome, when there is "newbies" demanding to become a part of the group. But I'm a good person, so I most of the times allow this, but I think most patrons are tired of hearing SW1...
And I just want to mention, that most times the patrons are plain boring, that could be a reason why some entertainers use an AFK-macro. If I'm not talking with the other group members (best way to make it more social), then I actually tries to come in contact with the patron, not because I'm "fishing" for tips, hell I don't need them, but because I like to add a friendly atmosphere. For example when people is gathering a group to go to the Tusken Fort, I usually ask them to come back and wish them luck, followed by a "/think They'll be pretty messed up when they come back" or something like that.
/agree
If you are the Sultrena from Bria beta, I remember you, always a shining example of the profession And I agree quality has declined somewhat. I find I really miss beta days.
I have to agree about the AFKers, if you absolutely MUST do it, please don't do it in the middle of the floor, it looks ugly, it is annoying to those who have to dance around you and its just all-round impolite. I would like to believe people just fail to realise this rather than they just don't care.
-Sen Sun, Tailor, Intrepid
-Neri Sre-A, Dancer, Starsider
What would help also id at some level if musicians could upload MP3's.
I'd like to dance to :Wumpscut:'s version of the Cantina song.