Entertainer Archive
Thread: What do you expect to gain from /deny
For those of you that plan on using the /deny command if it ever goes live... what exactly do you expect to gain from it? Do you think that people you /deny are going to start tipping you? Or do you think they are either going to listen to someone else, or, if no one else is around, go and train novice entertainer and heal themself? Seriously now, do you think anyone would start tipping you if you /deny them? I just cannot see that happening... ever. I see everyone and their brother taking up novice entertainer making you even more irrelevant and making even less tips when word spreads about you.
Then there are those of you that say that you only want /deny to refuse service to people that are bothering you (yea right), but there is a flaw in your argument (lie): if you would /addignore people that are bothering you, they couldn't bother you anymore... so there is obviously some powertrip type of mentality going on here that really isn't about people bothering you, as much as it is about you controlling said people. I know plenty of entertainers like this too, mostly men playing female dancers for some reason.
Whichever reason you choose for wanting this "feature", I think you are going to be very disappointed at the results you get with it. If someone doesn't want to tip your whiny ass now, do you honestly believe they will want to tip it when you try to force them to? I'm afraid you will soon discover that the grass is not greener on the other side... not to mention what you are going to do to further the downward spiral of the perception of entertainers as a whole that seems to be concerning so many of you.
Hijo wrote:Then there are those of you that say that you only want /deny to refuse service to people that are bothering you (yea right), but there is a flaw in your argument (lie): if you would /addignore people that are bothering you, they couldn't bother you anymore... so there is obviously some powertrip type of mentality going on here that really isn't about people bothering you, as much as it is about you controlling said people.
This is unfair.
First, the people who /lick, /kiss, and otherwise /molest the dancers who are trying to dance for a living (or for fun) need to cut it out. They ruin the entire experience for everyone else in the cantina. They are not going to cut it out as a result of /ignore. I've seen it. A friend of mine was being pestered by someone and had him on /ignore. He kept standing there /licking and /fondling her like a fool. Eventually I guess we all put him on /ignore and nobody saw it. But there's the problem. If I put you on /ignore and you /fondle my character (yes, I know there is no /fondle command but you get the idea), I don't see it, but everyone else does! Since I don't respond, the assumption of the observers may well be that I accept and approve of it.
Now, you are right, that /denyservice will not directly fix this problem. What we really need is that any pose that implies contact (/hug, /kiss, /lick, etc) should not automatically succeed. Instead the dancer should see a popup window, "A is trying to lick you. Do you allow it? Y/N" If the dancer picks N, instead of the crowd seeing "A licks B", they see, "A licks B but she slaps him upside the head."
Also if you are on my /ignore and you try to /lick me, it should auto-fail.
You're correct that /deny is not the proper way to fix this problem, but don't try to pretend that /addignore is the panacea solution; it isn't.
C
its just going to:
Make that person listen to a less skilled musician alternatly receiveing the same services just slower and that less skilled musician will get the tip due to the fact he didnt put that person on /deny, therefore making him receive the points he needs to progress to a better musician ie. a better player in game.
Put the listener in a mood to travel to other distances to get what he needs, opposing side is that money for the ticket could have been for the tip, as long as the musician/entertainer is oki doki with the amount given, if not then it puts the listener in a seriously disadvantage because what if: that is really all hes got.
defintly will put a power trip on people, especially the bitching and whinning ones who wont do anything other than sit in that rancid cantina and rot begging for tips.
I say give us musicians and entertainers the right to ruin the game for ourselves because this /deny option will eventually lead to just that, ruin the game for themselves.
You will make a name for yourself and it will be called "**edit**" therefore you will NOT be approached and will have to learn to settle your problems in other manners, so far you only get 1 character per server,making your real game reputation worth squat! ! !
so let them diddle daddle in it for a while see how far it gets them.
Hijo wrote:
For those of you that plan on using the /deny command if it ever goes live... what exactly do you expect to gain from it?
Well, I never wanted the /deny command, but it sounds like it'll be implemented.
If I ever use it, it'll be so I could punish a jerk player (or character) while not punishing the others who need healing.
But I know that it won't change anything. The jerk will continue to be a jerk. I can hope for that 1% of jerks who are actually in a hurry to do something and actually suffer from /deny.
Mostly, the /deny will placate some of the more sensitive entertainers until they realize that it's not changing people's attitudes.
And you can bet that if I hear of some tipping strike where everyone is being /denied unless they shell out money, I will be there dancing for them. I'm in it for the dancing.
Chessack wrote:
First, the people who /lick, /kiss, and otherwise /molest the dancers who are trying to dance for a living (or for fun) need to cut it out. They ruin the entire experience for everyone else in the cantina. They are not going to cut it out as a result of /ignore. I've seen it. A friend of mine was being pestered by someone and had him on /ignore. He kept standing there /licking and /fondling her like a fool. Eventually I guess we all put him on /ignore and nobody saw it. But there's the problem. If I put you on /ignore and you /fondle my character (yes, I know there is no /fondle command but you get the idea), I don't see it, but everyone else does! Since I don't respond, the assumption of the observers may well be that I accept and approve of it.
I agree that people shouldn't do it in the first place, but we all know that asking people to act like decent human beings is usually too much to ask for from a certain percentage of the playing population. However, I don't think you give people enough credit... the general public can tell the difference between two consenting adults flirting and someone who is pestering/spamming/molesting an entertainer. This also comes back to my point that all anyone needs to worry about is their own gaming experience, and not worry whether or not someone else is choosing to ignore the harasser. If everyone did that, then ignore would be the only solution anyone needed.
Anyway, whatever happens, for the love of God, don't make this The Sims Online with the Y/N would you like to hug so-n-so? hehe *cringe* Do you really want to deal with that spam instead of just adding someone to your ignore list? 
Hijo wrote:For those of you that plan on using the /deny command if it ever goes live... what exactly do you expect to gain from it? Do you think that people you /deny are going to start tipping you? Or do you think they are either going to listen to someone else, or, if no one else is around, go and train novice entertainer and heal themself? Seriously now, do you think anyone would start tipping you if you /deny them? I just cannot see that happening... ever. I see everyone and their brother taking up novice entertainer making you even more irrelevant and making even less tips when word spreads about you.
Then there are those of you that say that you only want /deny to refuse service to people that are bothering you (yea right), but there is a flaw in your argument (lie): if you would /addignore people that are bothering you, they couldn't bother you anymore... so there is obviously some powertrip type of mentality going on here that really isn't about people bothering you, as much as it is about you controlling said people. I know plenty of entertainers like this too, mostly men playing female dancers for some reason.
Whichever reason you choose for wanting this "feature", I think you are going to be very disappointed at the results you get with it. If someone doesn't want to tip your whiny ass now, do you honestly believe they will want to tip it when you try to force them to? I'm afraid you will soon discover that the grass is not greener on the other side... not to mention what you are going to do to further the downward spiral of the perception of entertainers as a whole that seems to be concerning so many of you.
Ah. So gladly accepting abuse and a total lack of payment for healing services is a sure path to garner "respect" for the entertainment profession? Please. Even you couldn't possibly believe that. If people don't respect your as an entertainer now, they never will. Some people just don't like that type of gameplay, and are bound to dislike people who do. Do you respect people who mindlessly wander into the wilderness to kill monsters for 6 hours without ever uttering a word to another player? I sure don't; that doesn't really seem like an online game to me. Might as well play Unreal 2; it has better graphics and more ways to kill the monsters in question.
Now I have a question for you: what is your problem? Why are you so firmly against adding this feature? It's entirely voluntary, and if what you believe to be true is true, then you have nothing to fear. If anything, you'll make more money from people who want to spite the other entertainers.
Entertainer abuse is a real issue /deny is not the way to solve it however because it will in turn be abused by the entertainers. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The only way a /deny function would work would be if there were real reprecussions for using it.
/denying your services should do several things in addition to refusing healing
it should place the /deny'd person on ignore, it should be unremovable for at least 24 real hours (therefore you can't /deny then remove the /deny after recieving a tip), it should inform the person who was /denied that they have been /denyied, it should in addition inform all in your group that you are dening a customer and therefore lowering the overall experience for the group and finally it should create a /report (you are denying because of abuse correct?)
CSR's should view those /reports as rigidly as they do all others and if it is found that someone is abusing the /deny /report function it would be detrimental to the abuser's game play to the same extent that harrasment is detrimental to the gameplay of a harraser.
CantinaFly wrote:
Ah. So gladly accepting abuse and a total lack of payment for healing services is a sure path to garner "respect" for the entertainment profession? Please. Even you couldn't possibly believe that. If people don't respect your as an entertainer now, they never will. Some people just don't like that type of gameplay, and are bound to dislike people who do. Do you respect people who mindlessly wander into the wilderness to kill monsters for 6 hours without ever uttering a word to another player? I sure don't; that doesn't really seem like an online game to me. Might as well play Unreal 2; it has better graphics and more ways to kill the monsters in question.
Now I have a question for you: what is your problem? Why are you so firmly against adding this feature? It's entirely voluntary, and if what you believe to be true is true, then you have nothing to fear. If anything, you'll make more money from people who want to spite the other entertainers.
I generally enjoy discussing (ok debating, arguing, etc) various aspects of the entertainer professions on this board, with most people, but Cantina your posts almost never make any sense and contain absolutely nothing of value to the topic at hand. PLEASE, will you show me where I am "gladly accepting abuse and a total lack of payment..." yada yada yada and saying that those things will "garner respect" for the entertainment profession? Do you even read entire posts before you respond? I really think you don't. I've explained my position very thoroughly several times, so if this is all you have "garnered" from it, then I won't even bother trying to explain it to your simple mind again.
Anyway, for the sake of staying on topic for a change... could you please tell me how you feel that a deny services option is going to change anything for the better for entertainers? My stand is that it is going to make things worse for the profession, and I have listed several reasons why I feel this way. How about posting a real post for a change instead of some bull**edit** spin that doesn't even address any specific points made by about five people in this thead alone. Hmm?
Responding with more name calling and cliche sentence structures really won't cut it anymore...
/deny will add more value to the profession because of the people who will sort of "grief" with it.
People will be wary of getting /denied and hopefully it would improve the client/musician relationship for those of us who do not use /deny. I'm not talking about tips, just about appreciation for the fact that I'm playing them music.
Hijo, if you hadn't started to insult our "whiny asses" from the start of this thread, we might have argued with you in a friendly manner.
You will learn at some point in your future life that ignoring problems will not solve them.
Putting people on ignore will not work if they are insulting you in front of five customers. "Real" life example:
I was in the Kadaara Cantina, dancing for 5 customers. I was the only entertainer. Then a rodian came in. His first words were "Dance for me bitch !". Well, I'm a formal dancer in a formal dress. I'm not running around half naked and I'm not doing lapdances. I'm definetly not anyones bitch. He insulted me some more and I stopped dancing because I didn't want to heal this jerk. So the other five customers were left without their healing. He continued for five minutes, I reported him, never heard of him again. Bottom line: 5 minutes wasted for me, five minutes wasted for each of the five customers who were equally offended. If I would have been able to /deny my service for him, like any other class can, this would have been much easier.
Let me try this from a different light.. If I went into the med center, called all the healers gay, punched them, licked them, whatever.. Would you expect me to walk out of there healed? Because that very thing has happened to me in the cantina, yet they were still able to walk out healed.
And if you say that theres no way an entertainer could refuse their services logically.. You'd be surprised what at least dancers can do to make the show enjoyable for someone and not for someone else.
Waho wrote:/deny will add more value to the profession because of the people who will sort of "grief" with it.
People will be wary of getting /denied and hopefully it would improve the client/musician relationship for those of us who do not use /deny. I'm not talking about tips, just about appreciation for the fact that I'm playing them music.
Is this really how you want the profession to be? "Pay us or else." That's not a very good atmosphere.
And beyond this, I don't know about the rest of you but I am in this game for roleplaying purposes. And OK, I will admit it, I am an IC (in-character) purist. Just exactly how in character is it for a Cantina Dancer to have an automated way to force patrons to tip her?
I don't recall the Twi'lek dancer girl in Jabba's palace having a /deny command. When she tried it (saying no) I remember her pretty little butt being chomped on by a larger, er, Rancor-ous creature. I don't recall Sny Snoodles /denying Lando Calrissian or C-3PO.
Where exactly is the in-themeness and IC-ness of /deny? How can anyone possibly justify it in character? /ignore, at least, I can see -- you can literally ignore another person. But /deny? The only way to deny services in character is to stop dancing.
C