Entertainer Archive

Thread: Entertainers and money

JasonK
Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:34 pm
#1

Just curious to know what some of you who make a lot of credits (namely Poet and sweatyguy) think about other entertainers whoare living in poverty. Are they bad entertainers? Are they slackers and don't work as hard as you? Are they dumb and don't know how to play properly?


If you can make bank they should be able to as well, so what is the problem with them?



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Blah, blah, blah.
PoetDancer
Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:39 pm
#2



Thank you JasonK for this opportunity. This is an edited version I did of an earlier post I did on the dancer forums.


They want to know how to be one of the "great ones," and I tell them, it is not, I repeat, NOT about the skill in healing BF, or the pretty effects, or the ability to play the Mando. Those things will do NOTHING if theentertainer him orherself does not have the social skills to make customers feel welcome. If they want the title of Master Entertainer? That's too easy, you can get it in a week, courtesy of the Coronet Cantina and a good macro. The title means nothing. Thereal masters are the ones that take the time to learn how totruly entertain. What do I mean by this? What do you really need to be a good entertainer? Here, in my opinion, are the prerequisites:


1) Decent typing speed. Unless you have this, you'll get swallowed whole.


2) A sense of humor. Jokes and entendres are sure fire tip getters.


3) An ability to carry on multiple conversations, via /tell, spatial, and E-Mail, so they can be responded to quickly and respectfully.


4) A thourough understanding of the in-game social commands and moods. Unless you know these by rote, you do not have the tools to entertain.


If you don't have these four, you may want to choose something else as your primary occupation, because you may have a harder time of things. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but just that it will take some extra time in order to realize how very rich the game contexts are, and also how to deal with the sociability aspect of an inherently social profession.


However, if you do have these qualities, it is my opinion that you can be a successful dancer from day ONE, and I mean, from the day you jete out of the transport with your desert crawlers and red shoes. Manyentertainers feel as if they cannot play until they have the Master's degree in hand. That is simply not true, and in fact, by zipping to Master in a week, itmay make life after Master (and there is PLENTY of life after master) much more difficult. Why do you ask? It is because theentertainment professions, more than any other, depends a LOT on "character development," and by this I do not mean development in the XP sense.


What I mean is that it takes some time in order to develop the kind of synergy between the entertainer and the audience that can only come bypracticing your in-game emotes, dialouge, and characteristic responses. Does it sound like an excercise in improvisational theatre? It is because a night at the cantina IS a night at the Improv, keeping in mind that the BEST improvisational performers rehearse for a great deal of time before they are considered pros. You need this time to rehearse too. This rehearsal time may make the difference between a /tip with three digits and a /tip with five, because the vast majority of my server's characters will be extra generous to areally good performer with witty entendres, appropriate and timed emotes, and whatnot...and if you think that you'll have time to do it after you reach master, then you may be playing catch up with those who took the time to perfect their personality beforehand....time that could have been spent earning lots and lots of high-credit tips and contracts.


It is because at this point, the career of a Master Dancer is essentially this: whena playeris paying out 100k to danceata player eventfor a nite, he is looking for what the difference is between Master A and Master B. And this is how both stack up:


Master A has ground AFK for a week in the Coronet Cantina. She knows nobody, has no grasp of the social emotes, is not "battle hardened" for /tell hells, is not used to carrying on multiple conversations, doesn't even know the full range of her dancer abilities, and has not developed a "personality."


Then there is Master B, me or someone like me, who took seven weeks to get to Master, meeting literally hundreds of players from every PA, faction, and world in the galaxy, who can type like a banshee and is used to carrying on five conversations at once, who knows the in-game social commands like the back of my hand, and has practiced using them to their greatest effect, who has rehearsed routines, bought costumes that flatter me, and has a real "personality" which is fun to be around. Tell me? Who will getthe player'scontract? I can tell you right now, if you are Master A, and I'm in an audition with you, you'll be dancing on the second stage dear....if you are lucky.


What about business as usual? Can Master A and Master Bheal you at the same rate? Sure. Who will make the the patron's minutes go by quicker and funner? Not Master A, THAT'S for sure! Believe me, players who have been around will know it too, and will much prefer the services of an entertainerthat is experienced in showmanship over than one that is not.


Take the time to learn your profession, and when I mean learn, I mean more than stringing together a few macro commands. I mean LEARN your trade, learn how to be "entertaining," and get to know your tools and your customers. The XP structure takes time, because it takes time to learn this business. Believe me, I've seen it happen. Rushing things will only leave you unprepared. A good entertainer with Basic 2 and a ton of developed personality will out bank an AFK or rushed ATK Master ANYDAY. How do I know? I outbanked masters DAILY when I was a novice. It is because cantina patrons are only looking at the speed of BF and wound healing if the act before them is poor and uninteresting. What's more, when that entertainer gets her master's degree, he or she will be better prepared to not only use the new dances and effects, but also has perfected his or her charming personality as well.


However, I'm not saying that it is easy. Far from it. Learning how to do this business from the ground up takes a lot of work, and it starts with the moment the patron walks in the door. Did you greet the patron with more than a /wink or a /blowkiss? Anyone can do those things. Throw out something that shows a little observation. For example, if a Zabrek named Noolos comes in with blue composite armour, say something like "My my Noolos, blue is DEFINATELY your colour!" Of course, if yourcharacter is male, you may want to say something like "Hey Noolos! That's some mighty fine armour!"


Notice something. This shows RIGHT away to the patron that you take your in-game job seriously, that you took the time to notice both his name AND what he's wearing, and that you made the effort to type it out. You'd be suprised how far that goes. Not only that, but it makes the patron feel good about himself, because usually players go to the cantina because something bad has happened, like they died and didn't clone. Remember, we are in the hospitality business, and it pays to be hospitable. Now some may say that this is why our professions are lowly and degrading. I prefer to think of it as armchair psychology, but not really psychology between two people, but between two characters. And let me tell you, it takes attentiveness and wit.


Because the conversation doesn't end with the greeting. And sometimes you have to remind the person behind the character that we are in essance playing roles, and that here he or she is not some assistant manager at some retail store, but here he is "Noolos! Bounty Hunter extrordinare!" Now Noolos has a background and a story. Maybe Noolos never thought about it, but its there. So you have to ask him, "First timeinCoronet?" And he'll either reply yes or no. Then go from there. Say, "Where are you from?" Again, he'll respond, simply because he has really nothing better to doright now than to let you do your work, be it music or dance. He'llsay, "Tatooine." Now, its YOUR turn to say something about your character, like "Oh, Tatooine. I've been there a few times. I wanted to see some big-time merchant prince named Jabba. I hear his palace is huge."


Because you have to think in terms of your character in order to really say that, now don't you? Because we have all seen the movies, and know Jabba's palace is huge, but if your character has never been there, then your character truly wants to know. Indeed, it helps if you can research a little Star Wars background from the Holocron. Your knowledge of the backgound can be useful. This is also inviting Noolos to play in terms of his character, and he WANTS to do it. He does because he wants to forget about grinding the investigation tree for once and think about something else for a change. Something that defines who he is in the virtual world. Something that he has created, but has yet to really think about. But you have totake the initiative. He'll help you along, but ultimately its up to you to get at that thing which will get Noolos more interested in what you are saying to himthan his BF and mind wounds. Because if you do it right, his BF and mind wounds will be gone long after your conversation is through, and he'll say "that was quick," and get this, painless, worthwhile, and fun. THAT gets you a tip. Send him a thank you tell when he leaves, so that he knows he's not alone out there.


Because the AFKers andmany ATK players don't really give Noolos anything to think about other than the mere, preprogrammed flourishes and periodical spam. And this only givesNoolos the impression that HE TOO is merely doing a mechanized routine himself with no enjoyment. That the things Noolos is doing are boring and repetitive. That its all about the XP and levels and boxes in the end-and not only that-but that Noolos is failing...MISERABLY. Because NOOLOS GOT BEAT BY THE SYSTEM. Otherwise, Noolos wouldn't be sitting in the cantina healing his BF and mind wounds. And let me tell you at-the-keyboard players, if you don't make Noolos care about what he's doing, he won't care about you, and he will not only not tip you, but he'll HATE you for having to go out and grind Investigation IV, missing shuttles, getting more droids, and fixing his armour; while you are in the comfort of the cantina flourishing your digital buns talking in groupchat with your fleshwrapped friends getting XP off his misery.


So to those whofind difficulty ingetting tips, ask yourself this: Was there something you could have done better to make Noolos care about paying his monthly fees? As Luke Skywalker said: I care.


THAT'S why I'm good at what I do. And with a little creativity, attentiveness, and skill, you can make Noolos care too.




Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
JasonK
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:01 pm
#3

Since you didn't really answer the question directly let me just use what you did post to abstract why you think the majority of entertainers can't make money.


You think the masses:



  1. Don't have good social skills.

  2. Can't type fast.

  3. Don't have asense of humor.

  4. Can't carry on multiple conversations.

  5. Don't understand the in-game social commands.

  6. Can't develop their characters.

  7. Can't improvise.

  8. Don't rehearse.

  9. Don't learn the profession.

  10. Don't want to work for anything.

  11. Aren't attentive to the other players.

  12. Don't roleplay.

  13. Don't have creativity.

  14. Don't have skill.

I would have just said they must really suck.




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Blah, blah, blah.
JohnMarble
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:02 pm
#4

Ya you are/were a doc, so it's slightly different as an entertainer. What PoetDancer said is true, I wonder if you'll read it all. With a doc you can just squat down and get to work with your droid at some port and not worry about it, but entertainers need connections. Myself, I move around a lot, somehow I pulled in 100k this evening doing that. I find people desperate for a buff, or head off to a player-city pvp hotspot (too bad I can't buff them after they die, so I have to move on). On the bartle test, I score very high explorer, oddly, not socializer. I find by just moving around a lot, blowing credits on the starport, I'll make good credits. I get /tells from people who know me and remember me once in a while, I guess I'm on their friend's list for buffing purposes, or from people just searching for a musician. You have to be friendly, y'know don't be a jerk, there, ol' buddy? O, and I never spam for tips. That probably helps.
JohnMarble
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:08 pm
#5

Ya that part about not being a jerk, very important, wanted to stress that again.
JasonK
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:15 pm
#6

Do you people even read? I DIDN'T ASK HOW TO MAKE MONEY AS AN ENTERTAINER. I asked what you thought about the ones who don't make much, which I'll add is the majority of entertainers.


Maybe you can understand it in a simplier format.


They don't make money because they _________.




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Blah, blah, blah.
JohnMarble
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:21 pm
#7

...aren't jerks?
JasonK
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:42 pm
#8






JohnMarble wrote:
...aren't jerks?





So they don't make money because they aren't jerks? Didn't you just say being a jerk was bad for making money? Now it's good?



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Blah, blah, blah.
nvoigt
Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:55 pm
#9

Jason, as always, your thread looks like an insult in disguise. If you want a constructive answer, post a constructive thread. I could probably give a lengthy explanation and I think the previous poster was right that to differentiate entertainers, it doesn't take in-game skill because we are all the same, but RL skill. Which, for a roleplaying game, is not good. I like it, but from a point of game design, it's bad.
I don't make money entertaining because I only play for friends these days.Yesterday Imade more money with novice artisan in a week than I made with entertaining since beta.



They don't make money because YOU were a jerk and did not tip them.
( ask an insulting question, get a similar answer )



JasonK
Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:10 am
#10






nvoigt wrote:

They don't make money because YOU were a jerk and did not tip them.





LMAO that wasa good one.


Sadly though, nobody will give the correct answer because they don't want to face the truth.





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Blah, blah, blah.
KoraJubali
Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:35 am
#11

Poet Dancer is correct. they don't make money because they don't (or won't or don't want to or can't) work for it.


I've made 70k for an hour and a half of work. maybe that's not a lot. I don't know what Poet and FamousFatWookiee make. Do missions pay that well on some planet? I don't know cause I don't go to Dathomir unless I'm getting paid to go, and it's not to fight.


Working for money in the entertainer prof includes all the things Poet listed. I'll list them again for fun:



  • typing speed

  • humor

  • roleplay

  • a fourth thing I forgot.

Maybe that fourth thing was rehearsal. When I was in my band making 10k each performer each gig (alot, we thought back in July), we rehearsed during the week and did gigs on weekends. It was time consuming and a lot of work. Some people can't do that; take that time to play a game, or don't want to "make their game time work".


That's fine, it's their choice. I can still make my money entertaining whether they do or not. FFW and Poet might be better musicians and better band members/leaders than I, but even if they were both on my server I bet we wouldn't need to compete for business. In fact, I bet we'd be /telling each other about gigs to get someone to fill in when we couldn't schedule one in. My pockets aren't big enough for the cash i'm making and I'm on partial retirement from band work right now. I can't spend the money fast enough. Yesterday I spent 90% of my money on resources for grinding up bartender and made it all back by the end of the night. I made more money tonight.


---------------------------------------


Here's a point you didn't ask about and I'm sure Poet and FFW at least will back me up:


We don't do it for the money. I don't mind people "sucking" at entertainer and being destitute on the street. I mind people sucking at entertainer and making my playing environment a living zombie nightmare. <---That might be a totally different subject you didn't want to discuss, if so, ignore it.





--=+=--
Kora Jubali
Proprietor: Red Lekku Canteen
Located at 5670 5890 NabooClear Water Plains
JohnMarble
Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:41 am
#12

You don't understand! JasonK only cares about the poor entertainers who can't make a living! Himself, NOW, now not him, no, he is just fine himself, here to HELP, he is just here helping out the poor destitute entertainers....


Just posting new questions in threads he has no need of the answers of, y'know, as community service.


blah blah blagggahah lagagag aaaaaaaaaghhhhhaaaaa



Why are you here again?LOL. What is this, forum PvP or something? It's really getting old. This has got to be the worst troll I've ever come across ever on the ineternet, he doesn't even try to hide it! What the heck is the point? "Helping out" are you, Jason? ROFL. Thanks, bro! We love the help! Course, Jason claims he doesn't need any help. If ever there was a lowdown moron who needed help, I'd say it was JasonK. I'm sure you're making the big bucks as an entertainer, though, that's right.



WOOOOHOOOO! Flames! WOOO! FUN!


O ya Jason, bring it on! O ya WOOOOOOOO!



Is this what you wanted? Are you even an entertainer at all? I really doubt it. But the question was good, even though you didn't mean it to be, so you can shut up now.



Anyway, besides JasonK, you can make money as an entertainer. It isn't boring, it can be fun! And you can get rich if you realize this!


Ophistes
Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:51 am
#13

Don't feed the troll or he'll bite your arse




Ophistes Ceimined= Chef and Musician =
= The singing frog =
"I suppose you're entitled to your own delusions." --Threepio



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