Entertainer Archive

Thread: Can I get a rant?

NinjasLovePirates
Sun Feb 22, 2004 2:54 am
#1

Okay... I didn't want to do this. I really shouldn't do this (I should go to sleep). However, I will just because everyone gets to do it SEVERAL times and why not jump on the band wagon so hard it breaks and forces everyone to walk their own path.


AFKers...


There, I said it. Whenever I see that in a thread I know it's either some vet-entertainer complaining about the state of affairs and wacky ideas to kill all AFKers or it's an AFKer themselves defending against the attacks. Eitherway it's the same old stale arguement that will never resolve anything because the 'problem' is being clouded by people's subjective opinions on the effects this and that are having on their tips, fun, time, etc.


JUST STOP!


This pro-AFK/anti-AFK spam is worse than "Jed-eye says: Please don't forget to tip! Heal me if I need healing thx" every 10 sec on the dot. Everyone just needs to step back, take a look around, and try to fix the cause of the problem instead of coming up with ways to deal with the symptoms.


GIVEN:

I'm going to concede that to an entertainer ATK, a person AFK is lowering the gameplay experience of the ATK player.

I'm going to concede that the AFKer is egocentric. Altruistic AFKers are probably pretty rare and aren't in the way when they're AFK anyway (in an empty cantina just in case, in a guild hall, player city, etc).


So from that we can see that a certain % of AFKers are a 'problem' and that those AFKers are doing it for themselves.

Okay, so WHY are they doing it?


AFK dancing can yield a few things:

[1] XP

[2] Money

[3] Presence/Name recognition


Now the third item may not be a real concern, but maybe some people AFK just so people will know that SexyMan will always be there withan instrument and a pair of hot pants when they need him, but I think that it's more of a perk or side item to one of the former.


The second item is a possiblity, but only for the poor. I think that since tips aren't that grand (maybe 1-5k overnight), only those close to broke would AFK dance just for money. Still a possiblity though, but I don't see it as a big problem since they could make a LOT more money in a LOT less time doing any missions except for Entertainer missions.


The first item is the one that gets everyone. This is the big one. Whether you want a Force-Sensitive character, another couple badges, or the ability to buff your Alt, Guildmates, Friends, etc, AFKing is the easy answer to get there sane.


Also, since AFK entertaining grants any of those three things, there are some people who will AFK just because they're getting something that they're not getting while offline.


So, there's that. Pure and simple reasons of why people are AFK (minus the eating/walking the dog/bathroom break. logging in/out takes a lot of time for some people and staying online is a lot easier for them).


Now you're thinking "so what? I've heard this all before and this doesn't do anything for me or those 25 people stumbling around the Coronet Cantina between me and my customers!"


Well, take a breath. Let's see what can be done.


If a majority of AFKers are just doing it for XP gain, and those players caused a majority of the 'problems' that make the ATK players have less fun, then by changing the way XP is gained should fix the problem, yes? If AFKing no longer grants the xp that it does now, then let's say that 80% of all AFKers stop AFKing. Would that be enough to please everyone? Of course not, but people need to stop being so egocentric anyway.


There will never be a way to rid the game of AFKers. Even removing the wonderful macro system wouldn't stop AFKers. However, a huge reduction in the amount of AFK entertainers should be what the Ent Community should gunning for. And alternate ways of getting Entertainer XP should be what the AFKers are gunning for. But instead everyone is ranting on and on and on...


Both sides want the same thing!


I've already suggested a way to make xp way more ATK friendly. Maybe eliminating AFK entertainer xp altogether may be an answer. But if the community really feels that AFKers are an issue that the devs need to address, then why aren't they suggesting different ways to get ent xp instead of different ways to boot AFKers, or have Imperials shoot them, or whatever else they want to think of to vent their frustration at the game. AT THE GAME!


So, while it's late and I no longer know what I'm typing, I ask only one thing. Not to come up with ideas for the Entertainer profession. Not to accept the situation as is. Not to irritate teh situation either. I ask that everyone just shut up about AFKers and see that the problem is within the Entertainer profession itself. So if you think you've got beef with the AFK dancing wookiee, know that your beef is really with the developers and their lack of attention towards the Entertainer profession as a whole. If you don't believe me, just check out the 10 answers to see how much they truly care, and how much they have ready for us in the next few publishes.


Remeber to ask for gameplay, content, and a way to make each entertainer unique through in game mechanics (no social skills since any player in any profession can have good/bad social skills).


Goodnight



Rick Maher
Master Armorsmith, Master Smuggler
"Uh... had a slight weapons malfunction. But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"
~Han Solo proving that Smugglers are the masters of talking their way out of a problem.


nvoigt
Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:42 am
#2

Because in all other games I played and play online, there is a rule and enforcement for banning people who gain anything by unattended gameplay. In every single other game I know, unattended gameplay is cheating. The DEVs said in here it is fine. We complained. They again said it is working as intended and not going to change in the future. I wonder what makes this game so different from all the other games out there. Until I see the big difference, I will be mad at "the game" for not providing a simple feature all other games have.



picklesSW
Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:53 am
#3

There have been numerous suggestions on alternate ways of gaining XP, or ways to encourage ATK play with greater XP. People have been talking this issue over for many months. Fact is, the devs think the profession is working as intended and don't intend to change a thing. They've said as much to our face.

I'm sorry, but while the devs do share some blame for this issue, the players do as well. There are ways they could AFK without impacting core entertainers, but very few people place the welfare of the existing people in the profession over the progression of their XP bar.

Having said all that, after discussing this issue for a long time I'm quite ready to never hear the acronym 'AFK' again, but we have people who start up the conversation all over again every week on these forums. It's a hot topic, it will continue to be a hot topic so long as there are people on either side of it, and it'll be discussed on these forums until the game dies or until they change things, trust me.

Don't solely blame the entertainers for it. We have just as many 'visitors' from other professions who come here and post on that issue, starting up entire new threads all the time. There's nothing more to say, pretty much everything has been said, there's nothing to gain on either side, and yet the threads persist (including this one).

I think we'd all be happier if people stopped posting on the issue completely. It's pointless to argue further at this point.




Ostracized
Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:01 am
#4






nvoigt wrote:

Because in all other games I played and play online, there is a rule and enforcement for banning people who gain anything by unattended gameplay. In every single other game I know, unattended gameplay is cheating. The DEVs said in here it is fine. We complained. They again said it is working as intended and not going to change in the future. I wonder what makes this game so different from all the other games out there. Until I see the big difference, I will be mad at "the game" for not providing a simple feature all other games have.









Wrong. UO allows AFK macros. In EQ you couldnt use third party programs but for awhile you could sit AFK in a zone where critters were weak and let any pets you have kill them for you while they were guarding an area. (they changed the guard function later) this was not banable.


Please make sure and know what your talking about before using all incompasing statements like the bold above.


And also, so what... even if they all did it before... we should be forced to never advance the genre??? Always keep things static yeah THATS the way to do things.


Its a new system... deal with the new rules or go back to the old ways.



1st holo = Jedi

DOH !!!!
Hoavomo
Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:35 am
#5


Somebody please tell me how I am ruining YOUR gameplay by being an AFK Entertainer?? Yes I use macros while I'm not at my keyboard, but I DO NOT anything else in my macro's besides my flourish and effect commands.


So I will say this to ALL the Entertainers out there: While you're AFK and using a macro, take your chat text out of your macro and may be all the idiot who are whining about us using them will have no choice but to find something else to whine about.


And to all who are doing the whining, you have not tried the Dancer or Musician profession, have you?? No, because if you did you would probably have carpal tunnel from typing /flourish 1, 2, 3, etc. etc. etc. for hours on end!!! So until SOE says otherwise, macros are not exploits and I for one will continue to use them.


Have a very happy day!!!


nvoigt
Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:02 am
#6



Wrong. UO allows AFK macros. In EQ you couldnt use third party programs but for awhile you could sit AFK in a zone where critters were weak and let any pets you have kill them for you while they were guarding an area. (they changed the guard function later) this was not banable.


I have played UO for two years and in these two years, unattended gameplay was a bannable offense. If they changed it in the meantime, I apologize, but I doubt that.
Also, why do you think did the guard function change when the behaviour you describe was intended ?

Just looked it up in the UO knowledge base:

Question
What happens if I am caught unattended macroing?

Answer
First, a GM will come to your character and check to see if you are performing an action or skill. The GMs can look at your characters scripts to see what skill you are using, or what object you are manipulating. Once a GM has determined that you are performing an action, they will appear visibly and request that you acknowledge that you are indeed at your computer. If you do not respond to the GM, they will send you to the "macro room." The "macro room" is a room in Buccaneer’s Den where your player can be removed from the game instantly. In the room are five blue moongates for your character to leave with when you log back into the game. If you single click on one of the moongates, you will be given a location where that particular moongate exits. There is also a sign in the middle of the room to inform you as to why you were placed in the macro room. Once you have been placed in the room, the GM will again try and communicate with you. The GM will make a note that you were caught macroing unattended, which character was macroing, and whether or not they emailed you. The only time we do not email players for unattended macroing is when their email address has already been proven to be invalid. Unattended macroing is illegal and will result in penalties to your account.


Please make sure and know what your talking about


Seems I do and you don't. Or UO is as badly documented as SWG differing in TOS and interpretation. But the quote above is directly from support.uo.com and I think that settles the matter about who knows what.


And also, so what... even if they all did it before... we should be forced to never advance the genre??? Always keep things static yeah THATS the way to do things. Its a new system... deal with the new rules or go back to the old ways.


Apart from the date of release and nice 3D look, what exactly is different ? The game mechanics ? Surely not. The player base ? Not that one either, apparently we both know UO more or less. So what is different that makes existing rules of behaviour across game genres and playerbases obsolete for this game ?
nvoigt
Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:39 am
#7

And to all who are doing the whining, you have not tried the Dancer or Musician profession, have you?? No, because if you did you would probably have carpal tunnel from typing /flourish 1, 2, 3, etc. etc. etc. for hours on end!!! So until SOE says otherwise, macros are not exploits and I for one will continue to use them.




Those who are whining have already mastered these professions. And I haven't met any with this syndrom because we know how to use macros. Or maybe hotkeys even. The problem is not macros, but unattended gameplay.
picklesSW
Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:55 am
#8

"Somebody please tell me how I am ruining YOUR gameplay by being an AFK Entertainer??"

If someone asked that question without the obvious chip on their shoulder or without the already aggressive stance and with an open mind, I might be inclined to answer. As it is, since I deem your post to be flame bait, especially given the tone of the post and the vocabulary you used, I will instead direct you to the plethora of other posts about this very topic, which can be found rather easily either by scanning the forum or via a search, to find the answer you desire.

Next time, if you truly want answers to a question, try to ask it in a way that does not insult the very people you are asking for information.




NJ62
Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:12 am
#9

Hecklers! I hate hecklers!


My friend and I went into a cantina, and there was one live dancer there. We started up ceremonial on the mandeviol and the chickenhorn - which sounds damn good. It was Bestine, so it had that annoying background music (ugh). When the audience showed up, I told them to hit control-o and turn down the backgroundmusic, so we wouldn't sound like a cacaphony. Then a guy showed up - let's just call him Smacktard. Smacktard insisted that we sounded like... feces. I informed him to turn his background music down. He kept insisting that we sounded bad, and started calling my female rodian friend all sorts of lousy names. We got a third musician, and we switched to ballad, bandfill+chickenhorn+mando. Smacktard kept complaining and yelling, using every foul word he knew. Eventually I added him to ignore. At this point the once-empty cantina had about 10 patrons in it cheering.


We then switched the SW1 on the mando and bandfill, and the crowd went wild! I could tell that Smacktard was still protesting mightily becuase I would hear others say "you shut up, that sounds frickin awesome!"


Ugh, why must people like that exist?





n'Jessi
former correspondent, former player

All your hawtpants are belong to me.
www.swgtailor.com
PLEASE REGISTER FOR THE SWGTAILOR OFFSITE FORUM (IMAGE DESIGNERS WELCOME TOO)

kirah_ashlin
Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:23 pm
#10







Ugh, why must people like that exist?





Perhaps becausethey haven't lives of their own and therefore must pretend to have one in a game? Who is to say . . . its one thing to make a momentary fool of oneself, however it is an altogether differentmatter to continue to do so when given ample opportunity and reason to cease . . .
JasonK
Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:16 pm
#11

AFKing is good.



----
Blah, blah, blah.
ChaoKuang
Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:58 pm
#12

I'm a Master Dancer. Also a Master Entertainer. And two boxes from Master Musician.


All without AFKing or even macroing.


There's a wonderful feature accessed by pressing Ctrl+A.


Then, using that wonderful feature, clicking the "Other" tab.


Following that line and scrolling down, you see these wonderful icons titled "Flourish 1," "Flourish 2," and so-forth.


Clicking and holding these wonderful icons allows you to drag them to the wonderful hotkey bar that is, by default, on top of the screen of this wonderful invention we call a "monitor." Then, how wonderful! We can flourish by simply pressing these delightful keys listed F1-F8. My, that is so incredibly, wonderfully simple, isn't it? Why, yes it is!


Get the HELL out of my cantina if you aren't live, thanks. You ruin it because you don't contribute a damn thing except for another mindless NPC. I worked, and worked hard, for my titles. All you do is defile those titles and bring on more disrespect than us true entertainers already have.


If you're not going to be live, if you're not going to bother being in the cantina, if you're not going to bother to ENTERTAIN, you have no business being here at all.


Thank you, good night, and good bye.





~*~Chao-Kuang~*~
~*~Kettemoore Server~*~
~*~Master of Entertainment~*~
~*~Zulian Zexxen~*~
~*~Naritus Server~*~
~*~Master of Entertainment~*~
~*~Zuli Zexxen~*~
~*~Naritus Server~*~
~*~Zulian's Evil Commando Clone!~*~
ArgentWulf
Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:17 am
#13






ChaoKuang wrote:

I'm a Master Dancer. Also a Master Entertainer. And two boxes from Master Musician.


...edit...


If you're not going to be live, if you're not going to bother being in the cantina, if you're not going to bother to ENTERTAIN, you have no business being here at all.


Thank you, good night, and good bye.






You get a standing ovation from me!....... /stand;/applaud......




Leivi Esava
Galaxy Girl for May 2005
Life is a journey, not a destination, enjoy the ride! A special friend makes it even more fun.
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