Entertainer Archive
Thread: Why I made a buff bot
Page 1 of 3
Nacoa
Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:57 pm
#1
After a few entertainer threads came up on my server's board, I posted why I have a buff-bot. Mostly to provide the "other side" for the argument.
[Note: I've only looked over the first 3 pages of this board, so forgive me if this has basically already been covered]
Here's why I started a buff-bot.
[Walk into Theed cantina]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes, several entertainers are continuing their conversation]
/say Looking for an entertainer buff.
[time passes, conversations continue]
[Step outside Theed cantina]
/shout Looking for an entertainer buff!
[time passes. Walk over to starport]
/shout looking for an entertainer buff!
[more time passes]
You get the idea. I could never reliably find an entertainer to buff me, even in Theed. I couldn't even find an entertainer who'd say "sorry, I'm just a novice, my buffs aren't worth it yet". So, I created a buff-bot for myself.
Yes, it makes you guys lose business. I'm sorry. But I'm not going to spend an hour searching for an entertainer buff when I'm trying to play a game.
So, I'm getting buffed, and in my adventures I find that on the advanced planets, the cantinas are almost always unstaffed. The only reliably staffed one is the trade outpost on Dathomir. You want healing? Gotta go fly back to Coronet. So, out comes the buff bot, parked in the empty cantina so that there's someone there to heal mind wounds and BF. Again, a 10-20 minute shuttle wait to heal up is not an acceptable way to play the game. (Btw, I suggest getting out to the trade outpost on Dathomir. Even AFK, the bot made some decent credits.)
Now, I am aware that I'm hurting you guys, and I do what I can to minimize the damage. I don't have the bot buff anyone who comes by. And if an entertainer shows up in that empty cantina, I'll either switch to the other profession or shut off the bot. And I always keep the afk tag up so everyone knows this isn't a real entertainer.
Really, the problem comes down to reliability. I can always find 1 buffing doctor in Theed or Coronet. I could only find buffing entertainers maybe 20% of the time in Theed and Coronet. So I had to make my own, or not play the game the way I want to. This was a few months ago, and I suspect with the holo craze ending the situation may have changed...but I've already got a 100% reliable buffer.
Reliability is a major problem in the game, from not being able to find a buff to empty vendors. The only reason I feel I can reliably get a doctor buff is the game is awash with master doctors. Just like I could always find a gun if I didn't make 'em, since the game is awash with weaponsmiths. Unfortunately, the game is not awash with musicians and dancers.
[Note: I've only looked over the first 3 pages of this board, so forgive me if this has basically already been covered]
Here's why I started a buff-bot.
[Walk into Theed cantina]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes, several entertainers are continuing their conversation]
/say Looking for an entertainer buff.
[time passes, conversations continue]
[Step outside Theed cantina]
/shout Looking for an entertainer buff!
[time passes. Walk over to starport]
/shout looking for an entertainer buff!
[more time passes]
You get the idea. I could never reliably find an entertainer to buff me, even in Theed. I couldn't even find an entertainer who'd say "sorry, I'm just a novice, my buffs aren't worth it yet". So, I created a buff-bot for myself.
Yes, it makes you guys lose business. I'm sorry. But I'm not going to spend an hour searching for an entertainer buff when I'm trying to play a game.
So, I'm getting buffed, and in my adventures I find that on the advanced planets, the cantinas are almost always unstaffed. The only reliably staffed one is the trade outpost on Dathomir. You want healing? Gotta go fly back to Coronet. So, out comes the buff bot, parked in the empty cantina so that there's someone there to heal mind wounds and BF. Again, a 10-20 minute shuttle wait to heal up is not an acceptable way to play the game. (Btw, I suggest getting out to the trade outpost on Dathomir. Even AFK, the bot made some decent credits.)
Now, I am aware that I'm hurting you guys, and I do what I can to minimize the damage. I don't have the bot buff anyone who comes by. And if an entertainer shows up in that empty cantina, I'll either switch to the other profession or shut off the bot. And I always keep the afk tag up so everyone knows this isn't a real entertainer.
Really, the problem comes down to reliability. I can always find 1 buffing doctor in Theed or Coronet. I could only find buffing entertainers maybe 20% of the time in Theed and Coronet. So I had to make my own, or not play the game the way I want to. This was a few months ago, and I suspect with the holo craze ending the situation may have changed...but I've already got a 100% reliable buffer.
Reliability is a major problem in the game, from not being able to find a buff to empty vendors. The only reason I feel I can reliably get a doctor buff is the game is awash with master doctors. Just like I could always find a gun if I didn't make 'em, since the game is awash with weaponsmiths. Unfortunately, the game is not awash with musicians and dancers.
Message Edited by Nacoa on 07-10-2004 06:00 PM
Beery
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:57 am
#2
There are a lot of reasons why entertainers don't give buffs:
Firstly, there just aren't that many entertainers - never have been as many as the developers had hoped. Secondly, the profession's needshave been basicallyignored by the developers. This leads toa situation where it's hard to make any money at it, and once you've mastered there's basically nothing left to do. Both of these things lead entertainers to find secondary professions, and these secondary professions soon turn into primary professions and entertainer skills get dumped.
Added to this, there's the AFK problem, which discourages those of us who are ATK. Also, some entertainers feel that buffing is too complicated, too unrewarding for the effort it takes - buffing well requires its own dedicatedmacro (or risk carpal tunnel syndrome), it takes quite a bit of time, and often doesn't work anyway due to bugs. Thetedious nature of buffingcan be offset somewhat by requiring payment for the buff, but payment can only be made in the form of a tip, andmany entertainers don't like demandinga tipfor service. It goes against what tips are supposed to be.
Then, there are some that just don't like how buffing has altered the entertainer profession, so they refuse to do it at all. Finally, many Master Dancers/Musicians refuse to put up their tags because they get constant requests for buffs while they're trying to hold conversations or are otherwiseunavailable. For them, the social aspect of the game is being ruined by the annoyance of having to spend a good few minutes in a clumsy and non-intuitiveprocess of unnatural flourishes.
All of this makes for a situation in which you cannot find anyone willing to buff. Basically, the developers gave cantina entertainersa skill that they hoped would make entertainers more valuable to the combat professions, but in doing sothey failed to consider how it would affect the people giving the buffs, or what was most important to the kinds of people that play entertainers.
Oh, and one more thing: I noticed you posted this on the Entertainer forum. I'm not sure it will get many responses here. It's a little known fact that entertainers cannot buff- not even Master Entertainers. Maybe you're posting here because you thought this forum was for entertainers in general. But anyway, it reminds me of another problem with buffing. Combat profession players tend to think that far more entertainers can buff than is actually the case. When I was a Master Entertainer I was constantly asked for buffs, and I had to respond that a Master Entertainer cannot buff. In fact many dancers and musicians cannot buff either. The only dancer/musicianbuff tree is the Techniques tree, and this is often the last tree that dancers or musicians get, because the knowledge tree allows faster progression in terms of XP gain, and the two healing trees come along faster than the two non-healing trees. So you have a situation where in a rare profession buffs are a very rare talent. Added to this the fact that buffs are only worth getting ifthe buffer iswell up in the techniques tree, and you get a situation where buffs would be extremely hard to come by even without the stuff I explained in the previous paragraphs.
Message Edited by Beery on 07-12-2004 08:21 AM
picklesSW
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:10 am
#3
Just a piece of advice.
Very often, the spam in those cantinas is horrible. Rather than walking in and saying what you did in spatial, which is where all the buffbots and AFKs spam, try looking for the level of dancer/musician you want a buff from and send them a /tell. Better yet, stand right in front of them when you do it and wave or smile.
In any event, I'm sorry you could not find your buff, but difficulty in finding a buff is not a valid reason to help destroy a profession. It would be like me having a hard time finding some rare item on the bazaar, getting angry about it, powerleveling a Jedi and then going and killstealing all the mobs in the area in which you hunt so I could get it for myself. The ends do not justify the means. Rather than trying to help find a solution, you have become part of the problem.
Very often, the spam in those cantinas is horrible. Rather than walking in and saying what you did in spatial, which is where all the buffbots and AFKs spam, try looking for the level of dancer/musician you want a buff from and send them a /tell. Better yet, stand right in front of them when you do it and wave or smile.
In any event, I'm sorry you could not find your buff, but difficulty in finding a buff is not a valid reason to help destroy a profession. It would be like me having a hard time finding some rare item on the bazaar, getting angry about it, powerleveling a Jedi and then going and killstealing all the mobs in the area in which you hunt so I could get it for myself. The ends do not justify the means. Rather than trying to help find a solution, you have become part of the problem.
Warryyr
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:08 am
#4
Nacoa wrote:
After a few entertainer threads came up on my server's board, I posted why I have a buff-bot. Mostly to provide the "other side" for the argument.
[Note: I've only looked over the first 3 pages of this board, so forgive me if this has basically already been covered]
Here's why I started a buff-bot.
[Walk into Theed cantina]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes]
/say Any entertainers buffing?
[time passes, several entertainers are continuing their conversation]
/say Looking for an entertainer buff.
[time passes, conversations continue]
[Step outside Theed cantina]
/shout Looking for an entertainer buff!
[time passes. Walk over to starport]
/shout looking for an entertainer buff!
[more time passes]
You get the idea. I could never reliably find an entertainer to buff me, even in Theed. I couldn't even find an entertainer who'd say "sorry, I'm just a novice, my buffs aren't worth it yet". So, I created a buff-bot for myself.
Yes, it makes you guys lose business. I'm sorry. But I'm not going to spend an hour searching for an entertainer buff when I'm trying to play a game.
So, I'm getting buffed, and in my adventures I find that on the advanced planets, the cantinas are almost always unstaffed. The only reliably staffed one is the trade outpost on Dathomir. You want healing? Gotta go fly back to Coronet. So, out comes the buff bot, parked in the empty cantina so that there's someone there to heal mind wounds and BF. Again, a 10-20 minute shuttle wait to heal up is not an acceptable way to play the game. (Btw, I suggest getting out to the trade outpost on Dathomir. Even AFK, the bot made some decent credits.)
Now, I am aware that I'm hurting you guys, and I do what I can to minimize the damage. I don't have the bot buff anyone who comes by. And if an entertainer shows up in that empty cantina, I'll either switch to the other profession or shut off the bot. And I always keep the afk tag up so everyone knows this isn't a real entertainer.
Really, the problem comes down to reliability. I can always find 1 buffing doctor in Theed or Coronet. I could only find buffing entertainers maybe 20% of the time in Theed and Coronet. So I had to make my own, or not play the game the way I want to. This was a few months ago, and I suspect with the holo craze ending the situation may have changed...but I've already got a 100% reliable buffer.
Reliability is a major problem in the game, from not being able to find a buff to empty vendors. The only reason I feel I can reliably get a doctor buff is the game is awash with master doctors. Just like I could always find a gun if I didn't make 'em, since the game is awash with weaponsmiths. Unfortunately, the game is not awash with musicians and dancers.
Message Edited by Nacoa on 07-10-2004 06:00 PM
A prime example of how uninformed players can easily make a buffbot with little to no effort.
Why are you uninformed? Well, you obviously don't have a fair grasp of the game's mechanics.
First off, try searching fora profession (do CTRL+P and use the Search tab) and look for someone of the profession that you need to interact with. Did you even try a search for a Master?
Second, in case you didn't notice all those chat bubbles in cantinas, it's hard for anyone to read anything in Spatial. I would venture to say that 1 or 2 entertainers replied that they could buff you, yet you were busy fuming over no one personally catering to you and only you while you were in the cantina (or gee, maybe just like them you completely missed their response through all the AFKbot spam and nonsensical banter thathappens in a cantina). Try sending a /tell to a Master, or ask someone in a group (using a /tell) if there are any masters in the group who can buff.
This is the heart of our troubles - this person obviously didn't try all that the game provides in order to find someone of the profession they need. So, just like anyone with 1/2 or 1/4 of a brain, they figured out that it was extremely easy to pay $15 more a month andmake a buffbot with the current macro system. This is called exploiting, ladies and gentlemen. Your $15/month does not permit you to use the game mechanics in a way not intended. And there is no justification, for any reason whatsoever, that one should be able to play this game 100% AFK all day, from server up to server down.
You, whoever you are that posted this, decided to find a solution to your problem. Congratulations, you did. You have an alt that can entertainer buff. This was for your own personal benefit (and maybe your friends' benefit) which was okay - shame you're wasting your money, but OK. Yet, you couldn't leave it at that now, could you. Instead, you now add to the hell that we entertainers deal with, add more buffbot spam to our cantinas, drive away live entertainers, and diminish our profession. For shame. Do us all a favor and leave your buffbot at home where it belongs. You're perpetuating and contributing to the very problem that first frustrated you. Put 2 and 2 together.
Having a hard time finding someone of a certain profession is no excuse to AFK a player all day to provide free benefits to cantina patrons and mock the profession you had a hard time finding in the first place.
Aleyo
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:13 pm
#5
Nacoa wrote:
Aleyo wrote:
Just because entertainer is the root of both professions doesn't mean that the professions read these forums. The novice profession forums tend to be filled with "how do I do this" posts that are not as appealing to most people who have already gotten beyond that point
Yes, and my only defense about posting this here instead of both dancer and musician is I only wanted to make one post.
If this ends up having some sort of interesting discussion, then perhaps y'all can link to it from the dancer/musician boards. So far it seems we've got more of the same. I'm saying I couldn't find a buff, so I resorted to plan "B". This has upset at least one entertainer. But not much movement towards a practical solution that does not take stuff away from the players. After all, you guys aren't the only profession that uses looping macros. Taking them out for your benefit is going to take a benefit away from other professions.
So, ya have my proposal about entertainer droids working like medic droids. That way you're adding something to the game instead of taking something away. Do you guys think this is a good idea or a lousy idea?
I personally think this is an ok idea, if not the best (I personally don't like the starport spam, but I doubt it's going away anytime soon).
After reading your reply to Warryyr, I realized something. You tried to get what you wanted, but couldn't, and you tried to use some of the game mechanics without success (planetary map). You've stated some of the thing you imagine are the root causes of your problem, and suggested a possible solution.
Turns out a lot of your complaints are a lot of our complaints. I know the cantina registration problem is one we've complained about for a while. However, seems the devs don't like listening to us.
So here's my idea. As a combat profession of some sort, please request that these problems be solved in your respective forum. Please tell any friends you play with that have a similar problem to request fixes. Suggest your possible solutions if you have a dev that listens to you. We haven't had a red post in our forums with respect to any of our general outstanding issues in months. Maybe you can help get the ball rolling elsewhere where people might listen.
Also, just wanted to point out that we live entertainers might not mind getting a tell even in tell hell
. It can be flustering sometimes to keep up with conversations, but I'm always happy to meet someone new. A lot of us are the professions we are because we like the socializing, and are less likely to get annoyed by it.I want to say that although I'm sorry you felt the need to make yourself a buffbot, I do appreciate you keep it private. I'm glad to see you making suggestions rather than a lot of the 'you guys are just worthless' posts we tend to get. I hope that you make an effort to help us out if you can.
Xyrdre
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:50 pm
#6
Well, I have to say that this may be one of the more reasonable buffbot threads I've seen in awhile, at least for now.. . Do understand that we entertainers are about at our wits end with this whole thing, and that yes, we're very, very touchy on this subject.
. Do understand that we entertainers are about at our wits end with this whole thing, and that yes, we're very, very touchy on this subject.The idea of entertainers buffing (and/or healing BF/mind wounds)anywhere with droids is not a new one. The issue seems to be that the cantinas were intended to be social hubs by the devs, and by letting the entertainers ply their trade anywhere it would likely empty the cantinas just as med centers have largely been rendered nearly useless by the doc droids. Some entertainers are all for the idea, some are against it, but repeatedly the devs have indicated (since they will not come here, post, and actually say what they're thinking) that they want entertainment to be largely contained to the cantinas (and to a lesser degree, hotels, theatres, player residences) to maintain those locales as social hubs for player interaction. My guess is that as long as the devs want the cantina to be the primary meeting place for players, we will not see entertainer buffs venturing outside of controlled locales through the use of droids, as the medical droid has shown for med centers what the probable results would be for cantinas as well.
It was noted that a large part of the buffbot phenomenon is that players needing buffs cannot find entertainers to provide those buffs. I think in a large part, the entire buffbot problem has come from a lack of understanding of how serious these problems were (and still are), and has now run unchecked into the age of the bot.We too have been screaming for some kind of improvements to the registration system, and the search systems, or literally any way that players can find each other.We've been begging andscreaming for this for a very long time. But it seems it's true... in space, no one can hear you scream. Silence on all fronts from the devs and other SOE representatives. And in that silence, the buffbots were born.
I've taken some steps back from the whole buffbot issue for the last few weeks, in the hopes that some new perspective might arise in my thinking. Thusfar it has seemed to help. I'll try to get a new post out in the next few days outlining my thoughts on another way to end the buffbot thing that hasso many peopleupset, one way or another.
koshman
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:03 pm
#7
I love this thread actually as the inital lines made me smile,
As a "grinder" who has completed Master Dancer and will complete the last ID box of Entertainer tonight the back to the Musician (of which, I am halfway thru, but might actually keep Musican as the secondary to a Melee class), the original postcomments are very true.
I have lead groups formanyhrs at a time on Flurry in Theed and/or Coronet and quite often find it painful. Usually the last several hours prior to shutdown, I will ensure I am not leader but rather AFK to gain a little more xp prior to the next day. The conversation list isbang on, no one wants to buff or the "'Masters" or near-Masters are chatting up a storm or afk or inattentive. The atmosphere is often juvenile composed of alot of /pinch and /kiss and many more risque emotes that in RL would be closertoharassement, and also alot of flaming, teasing and even some beggers spamming (note that I have been introduced to a section of ctrl-O in the line under adjustnig your profanity filter but also BEST--> Turn off listening to AFK spammers<-- really nice). But perhapsthis atmosphere is not really that different than the majority of the late night bar atmospheres in RL.
Personally, Irarely buff as it is my buffing abilities are less than half what the buffbot can do and takes longer, however I cannot wait to be able to provide high quality secondary buffs for guildmates and the odd individual.
Also note that on Guildchat, I have polled numerous guildmates on their perspectives and many will drift into a cantina, heal their BF by focusing on a non-afk entertainer then join the buff-bot for the best buff possible. Many make sure to drift whereever I am playing to help me in this way. In the future, in larger Cantina's, I will most definitely do the same thing. When I am master, I will never play in those 2 Cantinas again as their purposes are only buff-bots and afk'ers.
Last note is that I really enjoy playing Music in a smaller centre, specifically Moenia on south Naboo as it is more enjoyable,friendly and personal not to mentionrarely as harsh visually on my machine.
The reasons I stay in Theed or Coronet are larger groups for better xp and the ever-elusive Entertainment Healing Xp.
In this Thread, I support the buffbot definitely. My two cents for the useless worth they are on this, as I believe the buffbot concept to be within the parameters of SWG and definitely within the parameters of my gameplay.
Red's. (currently Entertainer 3444 and Musician 0134)
Nacoa
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:46 pm
#8
Xyrdre wrote:
The idea of entertainers buffing (and/or healing BF/mind wounds) anywhere with droids is not a new one. The issue seems to be that the cantinas were intended to be social hubs by the devs, and by letting the entertainers ply their trade anywhere it would likely empty the cantinas just as med centers have largely been rendered nearly useless by the doc droids.
Think it would be any different if the droid could only cause a buff? No healing of BF or wounds.
I'm all for the idea of having centers of [whatever] where people go to get a particular task done, but only if it's applied evenly across all professions. If docs had to be in a medcenter/camp to buff, then it would make sense that an entertainer would have to be in a cantina/camp to buff. But having different rules for Docs doesn't make much sense. It also makes camps basically pointless, and the high-level camps all the more so. Imagine how useful the rangers would be if only they could slap down a camp as powerful as a medcenter...instead of every doc having a portable one running around behind them.
Basically, any argument they applied to Docs to get them out of the medcenter applies equally to getting entertainers outside the cantina. And yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir right now.
Beery
Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:23 pm
#9
"If docs had to be in a medcenter/camp to buff, then it would make sense that an entertainer would have to be in a cantina/camp to buff. But having different rules for Docs doesn't make much sense... Basically, any argument they applied to Docs to get them out of the medcenter applies equally to getting entertainers outside the cantina."
No it doesn't. Doctors are completely different - they heal a different kind of wound in a different way. They don't heal battle fatigue. Battle fatigue, as any psychologist will tell you, cannot be healed by a surgeon. It takes a more psychological approach, takes longer, and requires a complete break from the stress of combat. You cannot heal battle fatigue or post-traumatic stress syndrome in a camp on the battlefield. It's just not possible.
Now the game condenses all wounds from their real-life duration, and it already drasticallyreduces the need to stay out of the battle for long periods. It does this to make the game more fun, but it's alreadyvastly unrealisticin terms of the brevity of recovery times. The last thing we need is to make the situation even more abstract. If you take away the one remaining thing that forces players to go to the towns, you may as well kiss this game goodbye. I don't know anything (other thansimply shutting down all the servers)that would kill the game faster than to make BF healing possible in camps. Cities would become ghost towns overnight. It would be the death of the entertainer profession.
"... And yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir right now."
Preaching to the choir?? You're talking about the equivalent ofholding a Devil-Worshippers'Black Mass in a Catholic church. The last thing I want as an entertainer is to have to go on safari. I would be bored out of my mind out there in the bush. Heck, I dropped ALL of my combat skills just so that I could avoid PvP and PvE, and now you're telling me thatyouexpect meto heal wounds in a smelly old bug-infestedcamp in the middle of nowhere where I'm going to be alone for long periods of time whilethe other group members are off killing things for profit??? Thanks, but no thanks.
Heck, I don't understand how you could possibly see that sort of life as inviting for me. I thrive on my art. I am not just a sort of floor mat that you can wipe your wounds off onto. I became an entertainer for a reason, and it wasn't to wait in acamp like a dutiful housewife while you boys go off to chasewomp ratsand paralopes.
Message Edited by Beery on 07-12-2004 09:38 PM
Drygo
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:06 pm
#10
I'll try not to be wordy here (good luck, self)
First, as Beery said, some entertainers don't like going out in the field. On the other hand, there are many who do. When was the last time you offered an entertainer to go out with you to heal mind wounds, rebuff you after 2 hours in camp (or stop in a Cantina with you for BF healing.) Many entertainers also enjoy combat and would be willing to go with you if you paid them to do so for their profession specific services.
Second, I for one, prefer a /tell when it comes to buffing. Cantina spam is, in my opinion to hard to keep with. Except for the three days that I got pissed at my former guild and didn't buff anymore, lol, whenever I've been in a Cantina and someone has sent me a /tell asking me for a buff, they get a buff.
Third, yes, as others said, you are perpetuating the very thing that frustrated you in the first place.
There...that wasn't too long.
Beery
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:32 pm
#11
"First, as Beery said, some entertainers don't like going out in the field. On the other hand, there are many who do."
But what Nacoa is suggesting is the turning of theentertainer professions into a sort of bard class. Entertainers would be primarily combat musicians. It would turn the entertainer class on its head, and would alienate even more players (those of us who became entertainers because wefeel combat is boring). Not to mention the fact that cantinas are avery importantpart of theStar Wars 'feel'.
If entertainers could heal BF in the field, cantinas would empty overnight, and they would never be populated again. Lose the necessity of going to a cantina, and you may as well remove cities altogether. All they do is slow framerate to a crawl anyway. The only reason people would go to cities would be to use the starport. There would be no place to socialize and meet new people, and if you're new to the game, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone to talk to.
Nacoa
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:28 am
#12
Beery wrote:
Oh, and one more thing: I noticed you posted this on the Entertainer forum. I'm not sure it will get many responses here. It's a little known fact that entertainers cannot buff
Actually, I'm aware entertainers themselves can't buff (after all I have a buff-bot). I posted here because this applied to both dancers and musicians, and "entertainer" is the common root of both professions.
Aleyo
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:41 am
#13
Nacoa wrote:
Beery wrote:
Oh, and one more thing: I noticed you posted this on the Entertainer forum. I'm not sure it will get many responses here. It's a little known fact that entertainers cannot buff
Actually, I'm aware entertainers themselves can't buff (after all I have a buff-bot). I posted here because this applied to both dancers and musicians, and "entertainer" is the common root of both professions.
Just because entertainer is the root of both professions doesn't mean that the professions read these forums. The novice profession forums tend to be filled with "how do I do this" posts that are not as appealing to most people who have already gotten beyond that point. I know that personally I read the musician forum every day, whereas I come to read the entertainer forum maybe once a week or every two weeks. I never read the dancer forum, despite their having many of the same issues as musicians do.
After all, we're not the same profession. Even with respect to discussion about finding live buffing entertainers, it would be wise to see the differences. I find live master dancers who'll buff me about 95% of the time I need one. I've found a master musician maybe 3 times ever (need that self buffing power
).
Page 1 of 3