Entertainer Archive
Thread: Why I made a buff bot
Nacoa
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:52 am
#14
Warryyr wrote:
A prime example of how uninformed players can easily make a buffbot with little to no effort.Why are you uninformed? Well, you obviously don't have a fair grasp of the game's mechanics.
My, aren't we full of ourself.
First off, try searching for a profession (do CTRL+P and use the Search tab) and look for someone of the profession that you need to interact with. Did you even try a search for a Master?
No, because I'm well aware of the tell-hell that any master can receive. After all, I'm a master weaponsmith. Some random /tell from an unknown person asking for a buff in Theed when they're out at their house isn't going to earn many friends.
Second, in case you didn't notice all those chat bubbles in cantinas, it's hard for anyone to read anything in Spatial. I would venture to say that 1 or 2 entertainers replied that they could buff you, yet you were busy fuming over no one personally catering to you and only you while you were in the cantina (or gee, maybe just like them you completely missed their response through all the AFKbot spam and nonsensical banter that happens in a cantina)
No, my reading speed is quite capable of keeping up with spatial. And in case you didn't notice, the spatial window has scroll bars. And I've got a separate "chat" window for anyone who sends me a /tell, /groupchat or /guildchat.
There's also the matter that I asked several times, in both Theed and Coronet before resorting to the buff-bot route. I wouldn't buy an extra account lightly.
Try sending a /tell to a Master, or ask someone in a group (using a /tell) if there are any masters in the group who can buff.
Now, if I was in a group, wouldn't you think I'd know if there was a dancer or musician in it? It's not like there's hundreds of people in a group, and entertainers are usually quite chatty.
This is the heart of our troubles - this person obviously didn't try all that the game provides in order to find someone of the profession they need.
Well, the game actually provides very, very little practical way of finding someone who A)Can buff, B)Wants to give buffs right now. I can search, and find someone who fails part B, I can interrupt a master who's having a lively private conversation with a /tell, or I can look at the broken planetary map. The only realistic option I have is to go to the cantinas, /say or /shout, and hope one of the people there is A) ATK and B) Can buff and C) Wants to give buffs right now. And when I was looking months ago, I could not find it. So now I've bought another account.
So, just like anyone with 1/2 or 1/4 of a brain, they figured out that it was extremely easy to pay $15 more a month and make a buffbot with the current macro system. This is called exploiting, ladies and gentlemen. Your $15/month does not permit you to use the game mechanics in a way not intended.
How exactly am I not using the game mechanics as intended? One character is buffing another. There's nothing in the EULA, or the game mechanics that prevent those 2 characters from being owned by the same person.
And, btw, perhaps you'd be slightly less upset if you paid attention to the part that this is a "private" buff-bot. It's not one of the ones spamming all day giving out buffs to anyone that comes buy. She buffs me, and I'll only leave her dancing/playing in an empty NPC cantina. I even pay attention to her enough to switch her to the other profession when a real entertainer shows up.
Having a hard time finding someone of a certain profession is no excuse to AFK a player all day to provide free benefits to cantina patrons and mock the profession you had a hard time finding in the first place.
Well, I'm sorry that the entertainers a few months ago weren't terribly helpful, but that's part of why this situation arose. Buff bots only exist because there's a need in the game that is not getting filled. They're not there to make buffs cheap, they are there to make buffs reliably available at all. The only reason the buffs are free is there isn't an easy way to force other players to pay for them.
If I can't provide a weapon with the stats you're looking for, you'll go to another weaponsmith. If you can't provide a buff when I'm looking for it then I'm going to find another entertainer, even if I have to make that entertainer myself.
Here's the fix I'd propose: Be able to apply Dancer/Musician buffs anywhere when you've got an entertainer droid out. Then much like Doctor buffs with a medic droid, you guys that actually want to give buffs can park yourselves at the starports and let us know your services are available. Yep, more spam. But at least we know you're there, ready and willing to buff.
Nacoa
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:22 am
#15
Beery wrote:
But what Nacoa is suggesting is the turning of the entertainer professions into a sort of bard class.
Actually, what I would have far preferred would be to shackle doctors to the medcenter in order to apply buffs. But that cat's out of the bag.
And really I'm only talking about applying buffs in the field, just like a doctor can apply buffs in the field. Not healing BF.
Message Edited by Nacoa on 07-13-2004 11:25 AM
Kreistor
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:52 am
#16
Nacoa wrote:
Actually, what I would have far preferred would be to shackle doctors to the medcenter in order to apply buffs. But that cat's out of the bag.
/clap
Exactly.
Nacoa wrote:
And really I'm only talking about applying buffs in the field, just like a doctor can apply buffs in the field. Not healing BF.
They can. Dancers and Musicians can buff in camps. It's quite effective during a hunt. I've been invited on a few, and it's amazing how relieved combats are when they don't have to hop three planets to regain their mind buffs 
Message Edited by Kreistor on 07-13-2004 01:54 PM
Drygo
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:27 pm
#17
Well, I guess I don't understand what the need is for having droids. I suppose it would be more convenient. But, if you're in a city, a Cantina is really not that difficult to find or time consuming to get to. If you're out in the field, a well rounded hunting group most assuredly must have at least one person who has novice scout skills. After all, people complain that camps aren't useful anymore. Well, I say they are, just because we can buff in them. Not only should hunting parties actively encourage dancers and musicians to participate, but it would make sense for them to encourage at least a novice scout to participate as well. And, then you have all the ingredients you need to buff nearly any place at any time. It's really not that difficult.
And, just for the record, I actually strongly believe we should also be able to heal battle fatigue in camps as well. Cantinas will never be empty. Entertainers will always go there because that is the one place where they will get the most experience. Entertainers are unique in that, as far as I know, we're the only profession whose experience benefits are this great by working together. I suppose one might say solo "groups" work similarly. But, you are not required to be in the same place during that type of gameplay. Entertainers on the other hand, are. They will always be in the Cantinas. As far as patrons, I think they will still be in the Cantinas as well. Not every group will have entertainers with them and it will be a meeting place to find entertainers who you might want to ask to tag along. On the other hand, if we had droids and could do this in the starports, then yeah...THEN I believe the Cantinas would empty out like the medcenters did. But, since we can't, and since I actually hope that we won't be able to, people that are in a city, will go to the Cantinas.
Padtai
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:15 pm
#18
You say its too hard to find entertainers and you're right but this is a problem with more than entertainers. Its too hard to *find* people to provide services in this game--and it is too hard to find well stocked stores. There's a pretty obvious solution to this end of the buff dilemma...We need a way to advertise services in game without spamming.
The first idea I can think of is some kind of in game vendor map with annotations, that lists services as well as just stores. I'd break this into a few steps:
(1) Registering needs to be fixed. Any profession that provides a "service" shoudl have some city "location" where that service is provided (to help avoid huge spam/lag clusters) and a generic area (maybe starports?) where any profession can advertise training skill boxes. Most NPC cities have tons of unused buildings... this would give these obstacle courses some meaning at least. Entertainers could choose to register in hotels, cantinas and theatres obviously....
(2) When someone registers, it gives them the opportunity to write up a small amount of text (such as in the bio box) about what their services are, what they might (or might not charge)--basically the same thing they would probably spam. This could work off a drop down menu. So as a patron entering the cantina, you would simply pull up your map, click onthe services list, notice there are 3 master musicans registered, 1 master dancer, and 1 person who's partially up the buff line for dance. Perhaps the "advertisement" must be something one places each time one logs in, with a fee to it... (good old money sink). In any case, as someone looking for buffs, you could quickly see which of the players actually want to sell the service you're requesting (since they're advertising), whether they're afk (that code exists in the "search" feature currently in game) then go about sending them tells. Yes its not as easy as going directly to a bot and not passing go, but ultimately bots do not make the game fun for entertainers or anyone else--they just make it easier on those wanting buffs and harder on those who aren't bots trying to sell buffs. itd be nice if the same annotate technique could let merchants update the public on theirvendors, instead of naming backpacks and the building the store is in, but that is another subject. And the registration should end if the player goes AFK or leaves the location--to avoid having people staying registered when they're ready to take a break.
(3) The key to this entire idea however is that spam has to be shut down as being unacceptable behavior. Right now we tolerate it because there is no other way to accomplish the things we need in game--knowing who can train you, who wants to be trained, whos' buffing, who's up for a hunt...whatever it may be, we can't post static messages except here on the forum. The deveopers tried to control the spam by letting people ignore each other--but then you end up ignoring people you may want to itneract with later.. Then the game gave usmerchant bots--which didn't help the situation since now both the merchant and the droid can bark. Finaly they let people turn off the chat from people marked afk--so all the perma-spammers just added a /afk to their macro to toggle the tag. It would be so much simpler to look at a screen of the various people advertising--smuggler slicing 3k, doc buffing 2.5k buffs for 8k, whatever it is.
The trade forum was created partially to let people move some of the ingame interaction to these forums--but I don't think using the trade forums works too well--its too many steps for someone to have to log into the game, walk to the cantina, then alt-tab out to see if any entertainer has posted a recent message on their galaxy trade forum about the fact they're buffing. I suppose people could start doing it--Ive seen people put "leading death watch bunker hunt right now!" before..but in general I don't think much will change if its not in game.
Now this wouldn't get rid of the reason some people want buff bots since they're after making money or saving money in game (even at the cost of real life money), and might not do much for you since it might often be the case that there aren't any entertainers on and wiling to buff when you need one (just as there isn't always going to be a smuggler, someone training you or anything else you want). Making the population of entertainers higher is something that would take a lot more work on the developer end--but maybe implementing something like this that could benefit every player might get more attention than something aimed at just entertainers.
And maybe eventually you would find you wouldn't want to bother with running your bot any more because entertainers are "easy" to find....
Nacoa
Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:41 am
#19
Kreistor wrote:
They can. Dancers and Musicians can buff in camps. It's quite effective during a hunt. I've been invited on a few, and it's amazing how relieved combats are when they don't have to hop three planets to regain their mind buffs
Yes, in camps. But they can't buff anywhere with a droid, like Doctors can. Addressing that inequity would help greatly in getting you guys buff business. If you could buff (not heal wounds or BF) with a droid, you too could be spamming the starport with the Doctors.
Kreistor
Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:47 am
#20
Nacoa wrote:
Yes, in camps. But they can't buff anywhere with a droid, like Doctors can. Addressing that inequity would help greatly in getting you guys buff business. If you could buff (not heal wounds or BF) with a droid, you too could be spamming the starport with the Doctors.
Sorry, but I just can't see how spamming at the startports like the docs do is a good thing. No one likes the spam that AFK bots shout out in cantinas and usually /addignore them on the spot. It would be worse at starports. Besides, if you don't agree with docs being able to do it, why are you suggestions that entertainers be able to do it??
In actual fact, if what your suggesting happened, our business would be worse. AFK buffbots would now congregate at Starports 24/7. Live entertainers still can't compete with that level of availablility. I go to work. I sleep. In game, I go meet friends and party. Buffbots don't have that obligation. And so, putting them at the starports where they have more exposure makes it more likely for them to get our business.
Plus, sure, cantinas won't be empty of entertainers. All the AFK grinders would still be there. But the customers would have absolutely no reason to go there.
Mmaxx
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:30 am
#21
I would have no problem with entertainers using bots at the star ports if there was no way it could be done afk. If entertainer buffing had to be done atk and bots were available for that purpose it would be a great benefit to the fighters and entertainers alike. As it stands now, over 80% of the buffs I receive are from afk buff bots. Sorry but like the original poster said it is almost impossible to locate an ATK entertainer buffer and since a lot of the afk buffers have the proper BE'd clothing and skill tapes, the process is faster and of better quality.
Searching for an ATK buffer while your doc buffs are ticking and knowing where a afk buffer is makes it a fast choice on where to go. Now when it comes to the heals and BF fix, I use afk maybe 10% of the time. I tipically tip the same for the heals as the buffs and more if some actual interaction took place during the heals...actually started giving gifts to the healing atk entertainers.
I do hope your profession will some day change enough so that it cannot be ruled afk but as it stands now the time it takes to locate an entertainer buff from a atk entertainer is time I don't explore, make money, fight the good fights, etc... I actualy give up on getting entertainer buffs after a few minutes and rely on nice BE food to handle that area.
Nacoa
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:53 am
#22
Kreistor wrote:
Sorry, but I just can't see how spamming at the startports like the docs do is a good thing. No one likes the spam that AFK bots shout out in cantinas and usually /addignore them on the spot. It would be worse at starports. Besides, if you don't agree with docs being able to do it, why are you suggestions that entertainers be able to do it??
Because it's much more palatable to give something new than to take something away. Penalizing doctors by removing their ability to buff with droid is going to be a lot harder to get done.
In actual fact, if what your suggesting happened, our business would be worse. AFK buffbots would now congregate at Starports 24/7. Live entertainers still can't compete with that level of availablility.
Well, I don't believe buffbots are being created to make money. They're a lousy money-maker since there's no way to guarentee payment. They're being created because it's currently hard to find a master who wants to buff right now. Doing anything to make it easier to find an entertainer who wants to buff right now is my goal. Adding the ability to buff with a droid means you guys can let the rest of the players know your servicies are available right now.
Plus, sure, cantinas won't be empty of entertainers. All the AFK grinders would still be there. But the customers would have absolutely no reason to go there.
Except that you still have to go to the cantina to heal wounds and BF.
Nacoa
Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:00 am
#23
Padtai wrote:
[A lot of really good stuff-go read it]
The only ability I'd like to add to your scheme is something I've wanted for a long time: The ability to browse a vendor from the planetary map registration. In RL, if I'm looking for a particular widget I can get out the phone book and ask the "registered vendors" if they have the widget in stock. In this game, I've got to drive to each vendor and look. So, I'd really, really like a way in the game to do the equivlaent of making that phone call.
I'm not looking to browse all vendors at once, just something where I could right-click on a registered vendor and see what they have for sale right now. I'm also not looking to be able to buy through this interface.
I'd prefer this to the text-box approch for vendors, since it would be impossible for a merchant to keep the inventory in that textbox up-to-date.
DarkY0da
Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:24 am
#24
"Well, I don't believe buffbots are being created to make money. They're a lousy money-maker since there's no way to guarentee payment. They're being created because it's currently hard to find a master who wants to buff right now. Doing anything to make it easier to find an entertainer who wants to buff right now is my goal. Adding the ability to buff with a droid means you guys can let the rest of the players know your servicies are available right now."
They are being used to make money. Most people don't even bother looking for atk entertainers to see if they are buffing. And the it's hard to find a master excuse is just that an excuse. They have an extra account for the lots. They butt bot is a perk. Free buffs for their main and friends. And some money along the way. To them any money (and I do know of some that make plenty of money off it) is free money. They log in after the server comes up start their macro and leave it alone all day long. If only have the people tip (or use the buff houses) they make a lot more money then atk entertainers do. Would you like to see what a nice friendly mail to a butt bot gets you on my server ?
"YOU go to player city! I am here to make money. There isn't anyone in lonely player city. So I'd appreciate it if you go f*** yourself. Thanks!
W
>
> I know your very busy not being there and all. But Those of us that play as entertainers would greatly appreciate it if you took your bot and put it in some Player City Cantina at the very least. And please go read the Musician and Dancer forums.
>
> Oh-Orb"
> I know your very busy not being there and all. But Those of us that play as entertainers would greatly appreciate it if you took your bot and put it in some Player City Cantina at the very least. And please go read the Musician and Dancer forums.
>
> Oh-Orb"
I've sat in the cantina next to this bot greeting people, mocking the bot, sarcasticly saying things like Ohh I'm sorry I missed you ask if atk entertainers were buffing. Please forgive me for forcing you to use this (insert random mocking of bot). to those that use it. Less then 5% of the people coming through there for buffs ever bother to ask me if I'm buffing. I have a little droid named Oh-OrbFreeBuffs and still they use the bot. Why would any entertainer that is atk sit in a cantina full of afk ents and patrons that would rather watch the butt bot while they go afk ??? It was the afk that made us start to leave first. Why would anyone sit in a little room for hours on end of a game we play 15$ a month for a MMORPG Multi-player Role playing game ? 15$ a month so we can sit in a cantina with no one else and not able to immerse ourselves into the star wars part of it due to spam for tips and healing and blah blah blah. Then we get butt bots showing up.... Why would we pay 15$ a month to sit in a cantina with AFK spam AND butt bots AND patrons that don't even bother or care that your there. I believe the saying is ever time a butt bot gets it's wings 2 atk entertainers die. Hmm yeah something like that.
Veustuh
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:24 pm
#25
Um.. like making to where you have to watch a dancer or listen to a musician for a buff but can't do both at the same time? Yeah that really solved that issue and besides that how exactly would the stop a person from owning a buff bot? So lets say I know thatI'm going to Yavin and would like a quick mind buff so I drag out my bot, have it buff mind for both primary and secondary buffs then log and go about my way? How exactly is that going to solve the buff bot problem?
Kreistor wrote:
Besides, if the rumors are true, ALOT of things are going to be taken away during the Combat and GCW revamps. My hope is that these rumors are true.
Kreistor
Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:49 am
#26
Nacoa wrote:
Because it's much more palatable to give something new than to take something away. Penalizing doctors by removing their ability to buff with droid is going to be a lot harder to get done.
Kreistor wrote:
Sorry, but I just can't see how spamming at the startports like the docs do is a good thing. No one likes the spam that AFK bots shout out in cantinas and usually /addignore them on the spot. It would be worse at starports. Besides, if you don't agree with docs being able to do it, why are you suggestions that entertainers be able to do it??
Very true, it is better to do something nice than to do something bad. But this in no way makes it the right thing to do. If a child is told repeatedly not to do something and does it, I'm not going to give the child a candy.
Besides, if the rumors are true, ALOT of things are going to be taken away during the Combat and GCW revamps. My hope is that these rumors are true.
Nacoa wrote:
Well, I don't believe buffbots are being created to make money. They're a lousy money-maker since there's no way to guarentee payment. They're being created because it's currently hard to find a master who wants to buff right now. Doing anything to make it easier to find an entertainer who wants to buff right now is my goal. Adding the ability to buff with a droid means you guys can let the rest of the players know your servicies are available right now.
In actual fact, if what your suggesting happened, our business would be worse. AFK buffbots would now congregate at Starports 24/7. Live entertainers still can't compete with that level of availablility.
Whether buffbots are making money or not isn't the point. If people are going to buffbots for free buffs, then they are NOT going to ATK entertainers who ask to be paid.Ifbuffbots are more available, then even less people will seek out Live ents. Whether the buffbot makes money or not makes no difference.
Nacoa wrote:
Except that you still have to go to the cantina to heal wounds and BF.
Plus, sure, cantinas won't be empty of entertainers. All the AFK grinders would still be there. But the customers would have absolutely no reason to go there.
Why? They're going to be at the Starports anyway. Unless what you mean is that the droids only provide buffs. Even then, unless the customer is looking for someone to talk to, they'd come to the cantinas alot less than they did before.