Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainer: 10 answers.
Ikkann
Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:17 am
#66
picklesSW wrote:
"you think 90% of the people dont drive too fast?"
I think having a speed limit makes people think twice about driving at reckless speeds.
"This is similar, if you see someone who seems to be afk, you can report him, but how will you proof that he was afk that time the CSR checks the report?"
Because people go AFK for 8+ hours at a time. All a CSR has to do is send a tell a couple of times, and if they get no response, you have your proof.
Even so, you're still missing the point. Tell people that something is illegal and that they will be punished if they do it, and that stops most of the people from even trying. Society itself proves this true every day, and if you cannot see that, then I cannot help you.
This conversation is relatively pointless anyway, they're not going to remove unattended gameplay at this point. My only remaining question to you would be...are you an entertainer?
lol. So you actually think by sending in a report that you "believe" this person is using a program (if macros were out) that a Dev would stop what there doing, check the logfiles, go into the cantina, send that person a few /tells, and try to come up with enough evidance? Im not sure if your famalir with auto-it. but it does your mouse movments, keyboard strokes for you. So you can have your person stop, walk around the cantina, come back and start playing again. Good luck to the person who can actually prove that thats not a person doing that opposed to a program, from one computer to another. And, a person sitting there for 8 hours dancing/playing music not responding to you, or anyone, or there tells is VERY unlikly, however it is possible. So even with that theres no proof.
Panthu
Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:59 am
#67
DarthIguana wrote:
But given the audience that they're trying to satisfy with that catagory of professions, they don't need to give them something else to do. The professions exist to give the socializers a place in the eco system of the game. If you want something else to do, master a second crafting or combat oriented profession as the devs are encouraging us to do with the mix and match profession theory. I ground my way through master dancer. I didn't enjoy the profession but I did get a chance to meet a lot of people that I normally wouldn't and I enjoyed chatting with them. I don't care spend 11.95 a month for a big 3-D Star Wars themed AOL chat room though. For a lot of the people I met in the entertainers group, that's exactly what they're looking for.
Chris
Who are you speaking for here? Females? Socializers? People who have been doing Ent classes as their main gameplay for a while now? Oh what's that, no, none of these describe you? Maybe you should let the target audience talk for ourselves. I think the attraction to the ent classes are a lot more varied than you and the devs are assuming (or we wouldn't even have males apparently *rolls eyes*), but I am exactly the targeted "chatty female likes pretty things and getting attention" kind of subscriber that is supposed to be so happy with these classes and how happy do I sound?
Did you even read the list of questions? We want things to do! We want the class to work and have content.
sweatyclimber
Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:36 pm
#68
is it just me or did others expect a rebuttle coment or two from the dev's by now.
picklesSW
Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:38 pm
#69
"Whine about it or just take it as the way the game is ment to be played. I prefer those who dont whine :-)"
I'm not whining, I'm trying to improve my profession. As for the rest, I'll not argue it further. Go witness the other games that DO successfully clamp down on unattended gameplay, you don't need me to prove anything to you, there's already plenty of proof out there. It's academic anyway, I understand they won't be removing it, so why do you continue to argue the point?
I would ask that those who are NOT entertainers to stop interfering in this thread. It's here to help us try to find solutions to our problems and to communicate with the devs. Don't try to convince us there isn't a problem, because if it's on our top 10 list...WE think there is. It's our profession, let us try to better it for ourselves. I fail to see why you would want to stand in the way of that, I certainly don't go onto your forums and try to stop your profession from getting better.
Let's try to keep this thread positive. We've already decided this is an issue or it wouldn't be on the list. Objections and opinions about the list should have been raised a week ago when we were formulating the list. If you weren't here to do that, and are only here following the Dev Tracker and trying to give entertainers a hard time about what we feel is important to us, then you're not being constructive.
I'm not whining, I'm trying to improve my profession. As for the rest, I'll not argue it further. Go witness the other games that DO successfully clamp down on unattended gameplay, you don't need me to prove anything to you, there's already plenty of proof out there. It's academic anyway, I understand they won't be removing it, so why do you continue to argue the point?
I would ask that those who are NOT entertainers to stop interfering in this thread. It's here to help us try to find solutions to our problems and to communicate with the devs. Don't try to convince us there isn't a problem, because if it's on our top 10 list...WE think there is. It's our profession, let us try to better it for ourselves. I fail to see why you would want to stand in the way of that, I certainly don't go onto your forums and try to stop your profession from getting better.
Let's try to keep this thread positive. We've already decided this is an issue or it wouldn't be on the list. Objections and opinions about the list should have been raised a week ago when we were formulating the list. If you weren't here to do that, and are only here following the Dev Tracker and trying to give entertainers a hard time about what we feel is important to us, then you're not being constructive.
sweatyclimber
Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:44 pm
#70
picklesSW wrote:
"Whine about it or just take it as the way the game is ment to be played. I prefer those who dont whine :-)"
I'm not whining, I'm trying to improve my profession. As for the rest, I'll not argue it further. Go witness the other games that DO successfully clamp down on unattended gameplay, you don't need me to prove anything to you, there's already plenty of proof out there. It's academic anyway, I understand they won't be removing it, so why do you continue to argue the point?
I would ask that those who are NOT entertainers to stop interfering in this thread. It's here to help us try to find solutions to our problems and to communicate with the devs. Don't try to convince us there isn't a problem, because if it's on our top 10 list...WE think there is. It's our profession, let us try to better it for ourselves. I fail to see why you would want to stand in the way of that, I certainly don't go onto your forums and try to stop your profession from getting better.
Let's try to keep this thread positive. We've already decided this is an issue or it wouldn't be on the list. Objections and opinions about the list should have been raised a week ago when we were formulating the list. If you weren't here to do that, and are only here following the Dev Tracker and trying to give entertainers a hard time about what we feel is important to us, then you're not being constructive.
great post sir gypsy! five stars for you.
... you sound inteligent... must have lots of time to read traveling around in the carivans huh? /tease 
JTGAlpha
Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:06 pm
#71
Oh yeah, and just to give you an idea about how bad it is on your customer's end?
I turn the sound off when I go in cantinas now.
nvoigt
Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:08 pm
#72
(And I know this will come up again, so here is why we can’t prevent people from AFK. Given that this is an online game, there are people out there who are very smart and will learn how to play AFK no matter what we do. It is just the nature of the beast. So instead of keep it so that only high-end computer savvy people can AFK, we make it fair so everyone can do it instead of just an elite few.)
Thunderheart, I strongly believe that this is what marketing told you to say. You know better. I know better. The whole board, pro or contra afking knows better. Not because we are terribly intelligent, but because we have witnessed it in any other online game. If the above sentence is your honest oppinion, you are the most clueless employee of a software company I have ever seen. Including my own PHB ( dilbert reference ). And I doubt that.
I don't think it's fair if everyone can run around murdering people instead of the few high-end government killers. (sarcasm off) Two wrongs do not make one right. Unattended gameplay is wrong. If it's not, let me write a real bot and take that "no unattended gameplay" out of your EULA. You have to decide. Is it unattended gameplay for all ( because what every other game has managed is to hard to accomplish for your's ) or for noone ? Change the EULA either way.
lol. So you actually think by sending in a report that you "believe" this person is using a program (if macros were out) that a Dev would stop what there doing, check the logfiles, go into the cantina, send that person a few /tells, and try to come up with enough evidance? Im not sure if your famalir with auto-it. but it does your mouse movments, keyboard strokes for you. So you can have your person stop, walk around the cantina, come back and start playing again. Good luck to the person who can actually prove that thats not a person doing that opposed to a program, from one computer to another. And, a person sitting there for 8 hours dancing/playing music not responding to you, or anyone, or there tells is VERY unlikly, however it is possible. So even with that theres no proof.
There is a solution so easy that you might not believe it. Send a CSR to a reported offender. When he arrives, he tries to talk. If the offender does not answer, the CSR teleports him into a grey box in nowhere land. If the offender still "plays" after 20 minutes and doesn't complain or talk or log or wonder aloud, then it's pretty much proven he's playing the game unattended. Is this a totally new, groundbreaking, high-technology, resource hogging, database busting concept fresh off the press ? I have news, it's not. It's as old as online gaming.
The first graphical (M)MORPG I played was 256 colors 2D. It had 1 CSR on 10.000 Players, who even did it as a voluntery service. Alone and unpaid. Did he catch everyone ? No. Most ? Who knows. But you can bet that there was no crowd of AFKers ina tavern or dungeon, because sooner or later he would catch people. And the chance of being caught, even if small, helped to keep unattended gamepay to a minimum.
So to summarize: SOE's stand is that AFKing is unevitable. Which means they either lie, or are less competent than any competitor out there. Either way, it's not a very smart answer.
I do appreciate answers. If one is either a lie or a show of incompetence, it irritates me. However, thanks for answering our questions TH, it's appriciated. At least I know where SOE stands.
Cloudgatherer
Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:29 pm
#73
Thunderheart wrote:(And I know this will come up again, so here is why we can’t prevent people from AFK. Given that this is an online game, there are people out there who are very smart and will learn how to play AFK no matter what we do. It is just the nature of the beast. So instead of keep it so that only high-end computer savvy people can AFK, we make it fair so everyone can do it instead of just an elite few.)
He's not just blowing smoke here. There are programs that can completely automate a computer (they are often used for testing software before you buy it). I'm a developer on a software product, so I know these get used for test cases. The in-game macro system allows anyone who wants to learn how to be able to do AFK activities. As with most issues in this space, it comes down to the user/consumer (us) and what they opt to do.
Tiaga
Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:22 pm
#74
Cloudgatherer wrote:
He's not just blowing smoke here. There are programs that can completely automate a computer (they are often used for testing software before you buy it). I'm a developer on a software product, so I know these get used for test cases. The in-game macro system allows anyone who wants to learn how to be able to do AFK activities. As with most issues in this space, it comes down to the user/consumer (us) and what they opt to do.
I don't doubt your claims... However entertainersare a social profession. Unless there are people coming to watc/listen there is no point for them to be doing it. So at most you will see a few people setting up a bot for small groups of people. Any more than that and the risk of exposure is too great. Using the speeding example, it would be like a well patrolled strip of road. If people know there will be police around, they will not speed as much.
NewJedi
Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:52 pm
#75
Shug_Ninx, thanks for your further input. Two quick follow-up questions from a Musician's point of view:
1. As others have already said in this thread, revamping Jedi won't fix the AFK problem. At best it will reduce it. People were AFK'ing before Holocrons, and they will do so after Holocrons are gone. The reason, of course, is that the silly in-game macro function allows people to level up faster AFK than at the keyboard. We need fun, interactive content that encourages us to level up our entertainers at the keyboard -- and fun content that encourages us to stay with the profession once we've reached Master. Do the devs have any plans to add this kind of content?
2. Could you explain in more detail what the technical obstacles are to adding new songs if some are already basically done? I for one would live with the same flourish animations; the new songs are more important to me. It's not the size of the song files, is it?
Message Edited by NewJedi on 02-02-2004 02:53 PM
Sir_Voor
Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:59 pm
#76
Thunderheart wrote:(And I know this will come up again, so here is why we can’t prevent people from AFK. Given that this is an online game, there are people out there who are very smart and will learn how to play AFK no matter what we do. It is just the nature of the beast. So instead of keep it so that only high-end computer savvy people can AFK, we make it fair so everyone can do it instead of just an elite few.)
And there are people out there who are very smart and will learn how to dup credits, get master professions in a day and grief. It is just the nature of the beast. So instead of keep it so that only high-end computer savvy people can dup credits, get master blank profession in a day and grief, we make it fair so everyone can do it instead of just an elite few.) Just because someone can do it, does not mean you should not try to stop them, or at least make it hard for them so they spend time trying to AFK instead of dupping, grieffing, etc. etc. Plus if done right you can make those anti-AFK programs Fun for non-AFKers.
Sir_Voor
Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:06 pm
#77
Thunderheart,
P.S. Here an Anti-AFK idea I post just the other day, it's rough but you should get the idea on how you can make anti-AFK programs Fun.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=7417
Karquile
Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:10 pm
#78
This is a crucial misunderstanding.
Entertainers were a social profession as originally conceived by the Devs. Primarily so the "B Ark" types would have something to do, with a little mind heal functionality thrown in.
Then two important changes occurred: the Mind Buff, and the Hologrind.
The Mind Buff is so powerful that all kinds of SWG players suddenly have an excuse to want tobe -or at least visit - high level Entertainers, even if they don't give a d4mn about chatty-Cathy socialization and /emodrama.
The Hologrind is even worse - it gives you a powerful motivation to level up in Entertainer skill trees, without even wanting or using Mind Buff, let alone the rest of the Dance/Music "skills."
As a result, right now you have a significant chunk of "Entertainers" who only want to buff their hunt groups, and the rest of it go take a hike; and an even larger group of Hologrinders who don't care if they ever see or talk to Hug'gee Bun'nee and her "private dances," blech! They just want to get it, drop it, and go on to the next holocron.