Entertainer Archive
Thread: L.A.M.Er (Longterm, AFK, Macro, Entertainer)
Dagradash wrote:
"Contriving scenarios"? I didn't know that the definition of contriving was "to walk into a cantina time and again and see something happening".
Linzen, you're not just an idiot, you're also a jerk, and you need to take an English class. That is not what contriving means, dolt. Look it up.
The problem here is not the definition, but your comprehension. Grow a couple noodles and see me in the morning.
I didn't say the AFKers were contrived, or even that they dont bother you. What I said was that these wild scenarios about how you are actually being hurt by them are contrived. Little what-if stories you make up to try to win your case. If you think about these things critically, your argument doesn't hold water.
Since when does What-if mean "scenario that really happens that linzen wants to ignore"?
We worried about AFKer's costing us respect, and look: The other Professions don't respect us! We worried about newbies choosing other profs because Ents are just robots, and look: Less newbie Ents!
Try not to use phrases like "thinking critically" if you're not prepared to commit to the action. And your poor English is still offending me.
Dagradash wrote:
Try not to use phrases like "thinking critically" if you're not prepared to commit to the action. And your poor English is still offending me.
Shall we try to be more arrogant and elitist? I think you are proving my point quite well. Thanks bro.
linzen wrote:I didn't say the AFKers were contrived, or even that they dont bother you. What I said was that these wild scenarios about how you are actually being hurt by them are contrived. Little what-if stories you make up to try to win your case. If you think about these things critically, your argument doesn't hold water.
You want some numbers? I personally know not less than eight master musicians and master dancers who have quit entertaining in public venues and every single one of them did so due to AFK Macro entertainers.
But no, they still don't hurt us.
On my server there was an AFK Macroer who, in with her AFK macro, had a /shout going telling people that there were strippers in the cantina. The rest of us were trying to dance and play normally and people kept coming in looking for strippers and harassing the dancers who were at keyboard. Meanwhile little miss shout-macro-AFK was not even present to have to deal with the consequences of her obnoxious actions. And no, /ignore was not a solution, because everyone who came into the cantina that night was looking for strippers.
I liked the cantina I was in and the people in Moenia where I started out but I had to leave that cantina I enjoyed because of little miss shout-macro-AFK. Are you trying to maintain that SHE had more right, for her $15/month, to be in that cantina than I did? Because that amounts to what happened. I had to leave in order to be able to enjoy the game at all, due to the actions of a long term AFK macro entertainer.
Luckily, I wound up in Keren, a smaller and much more friendly place, and I like it better than I ever liked Moenia, so the story, by pure luck, has a happy ending. But before I found keren I was this close to quitting entertainment -- a profession I was enjoying otherwise -- entirely, over the actions of Little Miss Shout Macro and all the other obnoxious boors in Theed, Kaadara, and Moenia who were just like here.
But no, this didn't hurt my gaming experience. It's no affair of mine what these people do. They have every right, for $15/month, to make MY gaming experience miserable by making the players who come into the cantina horny or ornery and then not being there to take the abuse that I then have to put up with as a direct result of their macro-spamming actions.
Please.
C
Chessack wrote:
On my server there was an AFK Macroer who, in with her AFK macro, had a /shout going telling people that there were strippers in the cantina. The rest of us were trying to dance and play normally and people kept coming in looking for strippers and harassing the dancers who were at keyboard. Meanwhile little miss shout-macro-AFK was not even present to have to deal with the consequences of her obnoxious actions. And no, /ignore was not a solution, because everyone who came into the cantina that night was looking for strippers.
I liked the cantina I was in and the people in Moenia where I started out but I had to leave that cantina I enjoyed because of little miss shout-macro-AFK. Are you trying to maintain that SHE had more right, for her $15/month, to be in that cantina than I did? Because that amounts to what happened. I had to leave in order to be able to enjoy the game at all, due to the actions of a long term AFK macro entertainer.
But couldn't a dancer who was NOT afk be just as annoying? I have seen dancers and musicians alike spamming stupid things like "please tip the entertainers!!!" who were not AFK. Your example illustrates bad taste and spamming, not necessarily a drawback from being AFK.
If an entertainer is AFK dancing quietly all to herself, night after night, and some of the others decide to quit over that... Im not seeing a problem. I could choose to leave the country because there are "too many people who dress funny", but does the fact that you leave make them bad? No, it only means you dont like them and prefer not to be around them.
Listen people, this argument has gotten way out of context anyways, we could argue till we are blue in the face. The reason I posted in the first place was that I don't approve of calling people LAMERs or any other name simply because of the way they play when it doesn't directly affect anyone else. Even if I concede that there are some indirect reprecussions of players going AFK for extended amounts of time, it still doesn't justify namecalling and belittling people. If you post that you think the dev's should nerf AFK macroing, I would agree with you. The reason being that I think that it should be more of a challenge to get to master then to AFK your way through the whole thing. But I don't put people down for doing everything the game allows them to do in order to progress at the fastest pace possable, even if it could be considered an exploit. Frankly that is part of the fun of joining the game on the first day of release to me... However, I fully expect those things to get nerfed, as they should. You may disagree with me on that last point, and you have that right. But be nice about it...
"Your example illustrates bad taste and spamming, not necessarily a drawback from being AFK."
Actually, the example DOES illustrate a drawback that stems directly from someone being AFK. Had the dancer been spamming 'Strippers here' while at keys, the people coming in to the cantina looking for the strippers would have been bothering HER about it and not the other people trying to play. However, since the person was AFK, she wasn't there to accept the *consequences* for her actions. Had she been at keys, she could have been asked to stop shouting that. The dancers in that situation had no recourse but to leave or suck up harassment *because that person was AFK*.
I don't really care about spammers as I immediately dump them into my ignore list. However, if someone else's spamming is causing ME to get harassed, you better believe that I have issue with it.
I don't think it's any of your business how I or anyone else chooses to label AFK entertainers. Mind your own.
You have no right to tell me what I can call them. I don't see why that term bothers you, it's not like it's directly harming anyone, is it? Again I say, mind your own. *cough* Sound familiar?
psylk wrote:
"Your example illustrates bad taste and spamming, not necessarily a drawback from being AFK."
Actually, the example DOES illustrate a drawback that stems directly from someone being AFK. Had the dancer been spamming 'Strippers here' while at keys, the people coming in to the cantina looking for the strippers would have been bothering HER about it and not the other people trying to play. However, since the person was AFK, she wasn't there to accept the *consequences* for her actions. Had she been at keys, she could have been asked to stop shouting that. The dancers in that situation had no recourse but to leave or suck up harassment *because that person was AFK*.
I don't really care about spammers as I immediately dump them into my ignore list. However, if someone else's spamming is causing ME to get harassed, you better believe that I have issue with it.
I don't think it's any of your business how I or anyone else chooses to label AFK entertainers. Mind your own.
You have no right to tell me what I can call them. I don't see why that term bothers you, it's not like it's directly harming anyone, is it? Again I say, mind your own. *cough* Sound familiar?
First off, you are saying that AFK was the problem because the person wasn't there to accept the consequences (your rightful angry comments I assume). Then you say you /ignored them (understandably). Then other mindless toons harrassed you because of this person? Why did they harass you if they were there to experience the consequences of their actions? Were they AFK harassers?
You contradict yourself. AFK was not the problem, the specific person was in bad form. While we would all like to yell at that person, AFK did not CAUSE the bad behavior.
About the 'labels' you assign to people, they DO matter. AFKer is not an offensive termand is an acceptable label, but stupid, lamer, ignorant, jerk,etc. are unacceptable. Labels do matter, just try calling a black person the N word and see how little it matters. There is no need to to be crude and offensive on these boards, they are discussions not fight clubs. I have an opinion about this matter and you disagree with me. Thats fine but don't be disrespectful like that.
And mind your own, don't bother labeling others.
I'm not new to dancing, in fact I've been a master dancer for nearly a month now. (due to a bug with the SWG board I couldn't log in to post.. and there has been many time I've wanted to reply) Now that that is fixed, expect to hear from me alot.
Linzen, your arguments that AFK macroing are fine, that it's not hurting anyone, and that we should all mind our own business is frankly, just silly. Macro's are fine.. AFK has a purpose. The two should not be used in conjunction with each other, they are not intended to be used as a source of unlimited xp. If this had been a creature spawn or some other 'xp gain' bug you bet the devs would have quickly taken care of the problem, I'm sure they realize it's there, but it currently is not at the top of their list of things to do. That being said, you don't needto preach to me that 'It's in the game, and the devs know about it, therefore it's legal'. It is still a bug that needs to be squashed out of existance.
You said: "... because of the way they play when it doesn't directly affect anyone else." Let me tell you something, You may think that it isn't directly affecting anyone but it is.Let me tell you exactally how it affects others:
Due to skill points and the need to do other things, I am going to be forced do drop dancing. As it is something I love to do, I have gone to the extreme measure of creating a second account that will have dance instead. She has been working her skills the old fashion way, joining a group, and actually entertaining patrons. Last night, I was in Coronet on the Corbantis galaxy, it was about midnight, maybe a bit past that, and there were 6 entertainers in the cantina. 4 with big (AFK) letters floating over their head. Okay, fine let them do what they want to do, I'm still getting my dance xp. I need some healing xp, being late I know it's going to take a while. Some guys come in, lots of black mind bar, I'm thinking great, I'll get some xp off of this. I greet them pleasantly, engage them in converstation and we have a nice discussion on the recent GCW. I start to realize though.... something is wrong.. he's healing but i'm not seeing any entertainer xp.. just my usual dance xp. So I look around.. right behind me (and I'm not directly in the middle of the cantina, a bit off to the left) is a LAMEr. Nari by name (So any corbantian reading will know how this devious little LAMEr works). Anyways, There she is, the Skilled Dancer, wearing her fleshwrap, doing her exotic2,with no AFK over her head (Nice, she turned it off.) So I ask Mr.Wounded if he's watching Ms.Lamer. He replies that yes he is, because she's almost a master and can heal him faster. Now... I am about 80 entertainer xp from my next level of entertainer healing, but I'm not getting any because he's knowingly watching the LAMEr! Tell me again how that does not affect me?!!
You say "Mine your own.." Well, I am. This IS my business. This is MY profession. I can be charming, engaging and dance my heart out for the patrons that come in, even at 3am. But I CAN NOT tell them who to watch. And with them having the LAMEr to heal them for free (though I don't need nor ask for tips, I dance for my own enjoyment of it) why would they watch the live entertainer? Many feel guilty about not tipping, so they choose the lamer to assuge their guilt over being a cheap tightwad. Fine, that's their playstyle and business.
But for you to say "Mind your own.. My afk macroing isn't hurting you." I say YES it is. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Stop abusing the bugs in the system, take the time to enjoy the game, get to know your fellow entertainers and your regular patrons. And stop kidding yourself... everything you do has an effect on others, you may not see it (how can you if you are afk?) but don't try to justify your actions, or kid yourselfinto thinking it's alright because 'It's just a game, it doesn't really affect anyone.'
I'm not sure that I should comment on this thread, as I have been a frequent AFK fixture in my cantina. When I first became a dancer, the afk people made me really angry. I DID use a macro so that I could entertain instead of having to constantly flourish, and swore that I would never be one of those annoying afk'ers.....the tides turned LOL
I play a lot! After a month of spending time alone in that cantina, talking to myself and staring at all of the LD people at my feet, and the afk's all around me I lost it....said to myself that I could be cleaning the kitchen right now....and the rest is history.
There have been many times when I've told the group that I was going to go afk in a back room in the cantina and asked if they wanted me to leave group - only to be told NO WAY we need your exp! Or to tell a room full of people that I was logging off for a bit to start dinner and be begged to stay because I was the only entertainer in the cantina. I do see both sides of this argument, but I have to tell you that there have been plenty of times when I know that I've saved someone's butt, or enhanced THEIR exp while I was afk.........
Do I think that it's fair that we can do this and other classes can't - well no, but when you find that CDEF leotard that get's me better stats....you let me know....in the meantime I'm gonna keep doing my thing......
TiakaCW wrote:After a month of spending time alone in that cantina, talking to myself and staring at all of the LD people at my feet, and the afk's all around me I lost it....said to myself that I could be cleaning the kitchen right now....and the rest is history.
I'm not sure I understand.
Why exactly did you need to remain logged in when you could be cleaning the kitchen? I cleaned my kitchen just last weekend. When I was doing it, my computer was on in screensaver mode and I was not logged into SWG.
I can completely sympathize with being bored with your cantina and other non-reactive players, but I don't see why that necessarily leads to AFK Macroing. I can see why it leads to logging out, or going somewhere else, or playing a new character on another server. But AFK Macroing? What's the point?
C
The point is, that I was in and out. I wasn't gone from my machine for hours on end...I would come back from time to time to see if anyone had wandered in, and if they had then I would sit down and resume at key play. I'm trying to finish up mastering dance before I concentrate on other areas. I'm a one thing at a time kind of girl *smiles*.
I don't play rpg's because I like to run around in the wilderness and kill stuff. I'm a stay around town and socialize person, and when there isn't anyone to talk to....I'll wait around until there is! (Gaining skill as I go).