Entertainer Archive
Thread: Mind Damage, Entertainers in Battle a solution? Comments needed!
To all,
This mind issue is near and dear to me...even as a CM who's responsible for rapid mind depletion...
To that end, while it is not my intention to hijack this thread, I have made a proposal for entertainers to be the solution that doens't make them bardlike, but more artisan like. I would appreciate your comments by looking at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=501318
Jacore
What I don't see is why this requires a new class, and not a simple addition to the existing class sets. I know they don't want to make this a "fantasy" element, and neither do I. But the truth is that music and song have been an integral part of war since the dawn of time. Witness military parades, as an example.
I see this as a new class primarily because of the options that would be unique to it. I've answered your other questions below, but the Master Engager is designed to be a semi-Entertainer, so that they can less than the pure Entertainers but more than what a pure Entertainer can bring to battle.
I agree that logically, a Master Musician/Dancer should be able to bring that talent into an elite profession. But I hesitate to design that elite profession around the battle archetype, which s how I read your suggestion.
Social roleplaying is the primary motivation to hitting Master ranks for those who'll keep them once they get there. If Master simply becomes 2/3 of the way towards the "true" definition of the profession, and the latter 1/3 of the profession involves gaining abilities to affect combat, that essentially means the profession will become viewed as a Bard. People won't be "done" with Master Musician/Dancer until they've got the ability to buff players in combat.
See, and the second you do, the "true" Entertainers are going to scream. Some have mastered both Dancer AND Musician, and did so because they want to be able to have all those flourishes and musical tunes. Making a new class just means you snatched it away from them, and that's not going to make folks happier.
I don't want them to have all of these flourished and musical tunes and combat usefulness 
They've gotta make the choice. Do they want combat usefulness or to continue being pure social roleplayers. People have already made this choice.
I personally don't know any Master Dancer/Musician/Entertainer players who even want combat abilities. They actively chose to not go this way by virtue of their current template. Bands on my server are like this. They don't do music as some sideline activity to occasionally help heal Lok fighters. They are totally immersed in what it means to be an active social roleplayer with some really fun, dynamic and unique abilities.
That's why I suggest Master Engager off of Entertainer. It allows the pure social roleplayer to sound and dance better than hybrids, as they should, because of where they're doing it. The people who would complain, in my opinion, would be those drawn to becoming a hybrid anyway, which makes the Master Engager compelling to them. Someone drawn to this would love to have an Ommnibox, but the Master Engager could co-exist with either Master Dancer or Master Musician anyway. So they get one of the two advanced professions, but not both.
There's no law that says a smuggler has to sell spice, either. But the ability is there, waiting to be used, and useful to those who want to use it. It'd be a way for those who enjoy the cantina socializing to have a shot at taming the uber-powergamers a bit. If you want RP in your groups, why should you expect to stop entertainers of any stripe at the cantina doors, as they're the ones most often involved in RP!
You've been in cantinas where some yutz walks in lamenting the need to interact with **edit** RPers. But that's not the answer 
Nobody's forced to be a Master Engager, but I feel there needs to be a separation between the Combat Entertainer and the Social Entertainer. It's sorta like Scout based crafting and Artisan based crafting. Both are the same system, but both deliver entirely different things. They could have made it easier by just saying only Artisans could make traps and camps, since heck, they're already masters of building stuff anyway. But they didn't because of the nature of the professions and how one is about machines and the other is about "living off the land."
I agree this may unnecessarily complicate things, but I currently prefer this approach because it's a way to reward the social roleplayers. Few opportunities do so currently, and none really as part of the game mechanic. You've got to like other people, but anyone can get tired of Starwars2 when entering the fourth straight hour of playing it 
The thing is though, I disagree with your later point:
I agree, frankly, as should be readily apparent from my vociferous responses here, and elsewhere in these forums. I think Entertainers need to get away from the common conception of "cantina dancer" or "cantina musician" and out into the rest of the world. I think it's fine and well that they can master other professions in order to do so, but I think there's a niche for them to fill with their original profession - mind damage healing.
Why do Entertainers "need" to get out? It's well within their ability to do so already, yet some choose not to. Why? Because they already are enjoying what they do and where they do it. This is a static game where the GCW is sort of in "loop" mode, until the Devs tell us otherwise Some people really don't enjoy the combat system in this game. There are very few games out now that allow people to play them full-time devoid of all need for combat.
And then there's another point of departure I think:
I want to see an ability that demonstrates the entertainer's ability to raise the spirits of others, but I don't want it to be a performance-type ability
That's sorta where I disagree too. An entertainer is performing or fighting already. Giving them an innate talent along the lines of Squad Leader or Ranger ones doesn't make them any more of an entertainer. Personally, I'd put innnate group beneficial stuff into the Squad Leader archetype. Morale and Leadership seem to fit better there.
I'd require entertainers to play in a fight. Yes, it makes them a Bard. But to your earlier point about the time-honoured tradition, battle musicians kept playing during the battles. Until they couldn't any more. That's where the morale boost comes from.
Fighting alongside someone else fighting, who you just happen to know is a musician, is alot different than fighting to the tune of a battle march. The latter is where morale comes from. The former is just a comrade in arms. We have comrades in arms already
Entertainers of many stripes have visited the troops over the years just to raise their spirits
Yep. And that's why I like the concept of Camps and semi-healing in them.
People AFK because it's either better, or because it's boring. This would aim to fix the boring parts by providing an alternative that does not currently exist
People AFK because they're concerned more about Rank than why they have it at all. They see an easier path to "finishing" a skill line, so they take it. The people who think this way are not likely to hold onto advanced Master once they get there, because the skill point price is too high. You've got to really like Entertaining to spend the points on it and keep them.
For what it's worth, the devs now seem to be considering giving entertainers, medics, or squad leaders the ability to heal mind damage in battle
Definitely on board with the Squad Leader approach here. That's what they're for! We don't need a social roleplaying profession turned into a combat one just for the sake of mind healing.
I like the idea of giving entertainers a way into active combat. But unless they do so while being an entertainer, there's no reason to give them abilities that make them more combat-centric. They can do that by learning Marksman or Brawler.