Entertainer Archive
Thread: JustG: We feel that AFK macroers are not healthy for the game.We want it to stop as soon as we can.
Niza wrote:
That would be true if not for the FACT that afk didn't start with hologrinding. It started during beta when people's dancers were erased by character wipes and they were forced to go back through that maddening grind again to get to the level of skill that had the small benefits we get from master dancer. The first few weeks the game was live we saw cantinas packed full of AFK entertainers as those folks that were in beta and wanted their beta level entetainer skills back endlessly looped macros during the night and early mornings. There has never been a time when the game was AFK free and there never will be. As long as a profession doesn't have enjoyable interactivegame play it will be a prime canidate for AFK play... Even in games that forbid AFK game play. Games like UO for instance where there are entire programs written to AFK level upboring skills.
*EDIT* Wow, my post ended up being very long winded, so I appologize ahead of time to those I bore to tears 
In your case Nizayou're talking about a special situation: having your character deleted in Beta. That doesn't happen anymore (at least I hope it won't 
), so that reason for AFK dancing is moot.
I'm not saying and never did say that AFK dancing would completely disappear once the hologrind was gone, creating a utopian atmosphere in all cantinas (*sigh*). In fact I said that there would still be some. In many case these will be for a similar reason that you described in your post: they need to redo their profession.
Sometimes dancers drop a box or two to help someone out, or to do a hologrind of their own. Since they've already ATK Danced once they feel justified in doing it again. Fine. I wouldn't, but some do.But those people are the very small minority. The reason that the cantinas are largely fat with AFK Dancers is because of the hologrind.
You've already probably seen the thread about someone asking which dancers have AFK danced and which haven't. Those that wanted to be dancers for the most part didn't, those that didn't want to be a dancer for the most partdid. Those that didn't want to be dancers were hologrinding.
And why would people who want to be Dancers do these "boring" skills? Because to us they are not boring. The most fun I ever have is Dancing for people. It engages them in conversation every time. When I'm at a starport waiting for 9 mins, the only people talking are the spammers. Until I start to dance. I don't say anything, everyone else comes to me and starts to chat, which draws in other people. I find this satisfying, I find this fun.
Like I said before, it's very possible that the removal of hologrinding will do nothing, that the infection of AFK Dancing has reached a point where it will always be in the cantinas in large amounts. I personally don't think it will. Just my opinion
Message Edited by Kreistor on 03-29-2004 02:08 PM
Pretty sure this is a reference to Naga's thread, which is only extremely funny beacause he was exactly the type of player that would have stayed ATK had there been any content and challange with the dancer leveling. It's the one I linked to in my first reply to Tiaga.
Kreistor wrote:
You've already probably seen the thread about someone asking which dancers have AFK danced and which haven't. Those that wanted to be dancers for the most part didn't, those that didn't want to be a dancer for the most partdid. Those that didn't want to be dancers were hologrinding.
Panthu wrote:Tiaga is in a much better position to actually keep fighting that fight, and if he thinks he can win, I say great. That's why I backed off when he asked me to. I don't think I misunderstood what he was saying, I think he disagreed with my opinion of continuing to chip away at afk problems by "handling them" i.e.: stop hologrinding, add content for the bored, make other ways to make money, blah blah blah. If he feels like he can still tackle the big scary AFK monster, cool. I support that and will try not to make trouble for him or the other corrs.
I don't diagree with that at all. I'm simply not limiting myself to it. I'm going to take every path I can, and I'm not going to wait to see if one has worked before trying another. You might say I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. And I'm not counting my... err... Why exactly do huurton have eggs in their lair?
You are worried that I am discounting your ideas, and are yourself discounting others. I am, in fact, discounting no ideas. I may not think some of them will work, but as long as there is nothing to lose, there is no reason not to. If it is something that has other benefeits as well, then that goes double.
Tiaga wrote:
You are worried that I am discounting your ideas, and are yourself discounting others. I am, in fact, discounting no ideas.
Tiaga, have you lost your mind?
You posted in this thread just to point out the one tiny bit of my reply that was different from your own and say how it wasn't the issue and wouldn't help. How is that not discounting?
The only thing I said I wouldn't be doing is posting anymore "ban afk ents" because they have told us this wouldn't happen. I didn't say the idea had no worth, I didn't say you shouldn't continue this effort, I didn't say they would never change their minds, I even said I would try not to get in the way.
It looks like you pulled a pseudo intellectual "I'm so much cooler than you philistines" when you called out Nizza's and my names... I also think I look like the weaker target of the two so you are focusing all of this pettiness on me.
Grow up, you are out of line.
AFK macroing will continue to exist until the process (whatever it may be) ceases to be mind-numbingly boring and repeatitive.
The idea that HALF the Dancer/Musician's required XP is mandated as Healing XP is ludicrous.
The idea of Entertainment professionsrelying SOLELY upon other people for this XP is moronic. (Even Doctor's can buff their own pets for Medical XP)
The fact that this Healing XPcomes excruciatingly slow is just infuriating.
Having Mastered Entertainer, Image Designer and Musician, I simply cannot WAIT till I attain the title of Master Dancer ...My entire Entertainer tree will be dropped inside of 30 seconds and I will delight in thatfact that I'll NEVER be bothered by such a colossal waste of time again.
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Ss I was trying to figure out the best way to word the closing statement, I think I may have come to a realization as to where the breakdown of communication between us has occurred.
When I am talking about dealing with AFK macroers, I tend to be focused soly on the them. From that perspective, the way to deal with them is to make there be more of them. I have been talking only about the effect that changes would have to the number of AFKers. So to my view, there will not be much of a change.
I am going to make a guess here. Perhaps you are looking at the bigger picture of why they are a problem in the first place? Specifically, that it just isn't that fun to be an entertainer when you're surrounded by people who aren't even playing. The fact that they are AFKers is just a periphery issue to the main point that it just isn't as fun to be an entertainer.
If I am right, then I will say that yes, I 100% agree with you. From that angle, it would absolutely be a step in the right direction. If my guess is wrong... Well I still have that other window open ready to post.
WunuShi wrote:
AFK macroing will continue to exist until the process (whatever it may be) ceases to be mind-numbingly boring and repeatitive.
I don't find it boring at all. I always discover new ways to amuse my patrons. And indeed, if you don't like it, then I recommend you do something that you prefer, and leave the dancing to us.
And yet, I do believe that you are doing this to unlock your jedi character. It's not right that you would have to do something you are uncomfortable with or uninterested in to do this. I never wanted it that way for you. I'd rather you let me service you, and you do something that you'd like. That way, we both get what we need. Unfortunately, the system has made it the way it is for both of us. And yet, I don't feel that this is reason alone to justify why unattended characters can have an effect on the game world in the same way as a playing character. Because while you hate my profession for reasons that have nothing to do with it, I hate the effects of this unfair system as well. Its killing the love of this game world for BOTH of us, and there is really no way out for either of us.