Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainer: 10 answers.
sirkuurus26
Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:42 pm
#27
Well AFK entertainers kind of hurts the professions, it has stopped a lot of people from tipping and even trying to talk in cantina’s. People will go to place like Theed because they know that 30+ afk people will heal them quickly.
Personally I think it would be good to give entertainer types some combat support things, this is just a few ideas.
Musicians:
They play music for the team and the team kind of moves to the music and kind of like dancing in place. There by making it easier for teams to dodge attacks.
Dancers:
Watching dancers kind of relaxes u and thereby making you resist and fight off MIND type poison, disease and bleed faster.
The typical combat support idea would be that the entertainer type profession would always have to be playing or dancing for the team to get the effects. Meaning they couldn’t attack also. But it would make them more useful to the game and can put them at a very high demand. Those that like entertainer because they don’t like fighter and actually like to meet new people will probably find this better to use. However, in PVP the entertainers will get TEF so they will get killed. But the effected range of these entertainers can go up on levels so they can stand fairly far behind the team for some protection.
Anyway, this probably isn’t the best place to put it, but might give those entertainer type something a build off of.
Personally I think it would be good to give entertainer types some combat support things, this is just a few ideas.
Musicians:
They play music for the team and the team kind of moves to the music and kind of like dancing in place. There by making it easier for teams to dodge attacks.
Dancers:
Watching dancers kind of relaxes u and thereby making you resist and fight off MIND type poison, disease and bleed faster.
The typical combat support idea would be that the entertainer type profession would always have to be playing or dancing for the team to get the effects. Meaning they couldn’t attack also. But it would make them more useful to the game and can put them at a very high demand. Those that like entertainer because they don’t like fighter and actually like to meet new people will probably find this better to use. However, in PVP the entertainers will get TEF so they will get killed. But the effected range of these entertainers can go up on levels so they can stand fairly far behind the team for some protection.
Anyway, this probably isn’t the best place to put it, but might give those entertainer type something a build off of.
Naquiel
Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:50 pm
#28
Ok im going to say it, because i feel a little naughty.
______________________________________________________________________
TH said
8.Do any members of the development teams regularly play an entertainer?
Yes. Myself included. Many of their wives play entertainers as well.
______________________________________________________________________
I know that many of the developers wives could be very good entertainers, but we really want to know if their good entertainers in the game (next time word the sentence a little more percicly). 
To many ppl can get the wrong idea, but mostly thinking in a totaly different direction.
Tiaga
Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:28 am
#29
"I know that many of the developers wives could be very good entertainers, but we really want to know if their good entertainers in the game (next time word the sentence a little more percicly)."
Alright I'll take an "I told you so" on that question. Though I think the real test would be to be able to see them in action, which I doubt would happen.
Alright I'll take an "I told you so" on that question. Though I think the real test would be to be able to see them in action, which I doubt would happen.
Paweh
Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:59 am
#30
Velvet-dancer wrote:The AFK problem won't go away when they 'change' the Jedi system. It was *already* a problem prior to the first Jedi slot being unlocked.TH, I know you're just the messenger, but I think the answer to the AFK issue is absolutely pathetic, and pethetic isn't as strong as word as I'd like to use but it's all I can think of atm. Please show the nicely written post with the hacking analogy to the devs.Tell the devs to save a lot of time and trouble and just remove entertainer healing and battle fatigue from the game altogether, and nix all 3 'socializer' professions. It's pretty apparent that they lack the b a l l s to follow through with the radical departure from every other MMOG that they tried by including something that was specifically designed to appeal to socializers, and actually KEEP that profession appealing to socializers instead of the achiever crowd who is just pleased as punch to impersonate an NPC.
Yes, it was a problem prior to the first Jedi slot being unlocked, but it wasn't a problem before Holocrons were introduced. You do realize that Holocrons are going away under the new jedi system, right?
Panthu
Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:59 am
#31
Shug_Ninx wrote:
I'd like to quickly elaborate on a few answers:
1. When the entertainer class was created, what was the vision for role that entertainers would play in the grand scheme of things? Do you see entertainers now as filling that role?
Along with everything that TH cited, the Entertainer was, at its heart, meant to appeal to the socializers in the game. Our goal was to provide a profession that allowed them to enjoy their preferredgameplay style while still providing a valuable role to the other players. Basically, we wanted to make them feel like they were contributing to the online community even while just hanging out and chatting. To that end, we made them part of the healing cycle. I do think we achieved our goal here; most of the EntertainersI know were drawn to the profession because of its verysocial nature and they enjoymeeting all the other players who must come to them forBF healing.
We also hoped that, by driving other players to the Entertainers in cantinas, cantinas would become social hubs where players enjoy some downtime, swapping stories and meeting one another. Although we do realize that the Holocron-grinding has led to quite a few AFK Entertainers (something we're hoping to remedy with the revision to the Jedi system), Ialso believe that the cantinas have become the social hubs that we had hoped for.
Hostages Mr. Blackman, you made every person who didn't want to train novice ent a cantina hostage so social players could chat _at_ them. I was the target market for this class, I read the old Salon article talking about the girlie class with "I can't believe it, we even have a whole tree for hair dressing"... I know what's up.
I am insanely social, morechatter than gamer most likely, but cantinas just aren't fun _most_ of the time. Not very suprising considering that most people in them _really_ want to be off doing something "game like" instead of being there. Healers are loved; healers allow you to play more, get better xp, have less down time... we aren't healers! Doctors would be healing BF and blue out in the field if you didn't feel like you had to force people to talk to a social class... and don't think they don't know it.
Dancer hating is rampant, musician and master ent tags don't get you a whole lot more love... ID gets it's share of name calling too, but at least there it's not a "forced" service. It's pretty cool to be able to do something nice for someone's av that they want.
I will be social in any class in any game you put me in, I talk, you don't need to hold hostages for me. I will jump people at the banks if Iget desperate enough, I don't need the game to make people feel like I'm a burden to their gameplay just so I can talk! It's not working anyway, cantinas need content... there is nothing to do there but chat (if you can find one where people aren't afk or only looking at group chat because spatial is soooo littered). They need games, they need gaming elements... and I mean real rewards, not relief from a contrived punishment like BF. If you think cantinas are "social hubs", you are way out of touch.
CyberGhost
Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:14 am
#32
If we want to combat AFK entertainers there have to be done 2 things :
1. No more holo grinding ( is in the works ).
2. Nerf looping macro's. It makes no sence that a player can make a macro that virtually can run forever and that one can play this game when not even sitting at the computer.
Fix these 2 and that will be a big help.
Further on there should be more fluff for the entertainer ( new flourishes, new songs, etc ) but I am sure that is already mentioned.
Greetings,
CyberGhost.
Masen
Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:26 am
#33
Tip number one..TAKE OUT MACROS. I'm sorry..it was a great idea..But people are using it so that they don't even have to play the game. I'm nearly a master dancer, without ONE macro, and I got the patience of a rabid pitbull. I mean, come on. Is it that hard to simply say 'Prolonged AFK status is against the EULA. Please report anyone you see using it, and we will check in on them, and ban them if necessary.' It's NOT that hard. Using the cheap excuse 'Well..we know people will cheat, so let's make it fair by letting EVERYONE cheat'...umm...Isn't that a bit like playing a game of poker with all the cards face up? Or playing a board game, and everyone just gets to set the dice however they like? It's stupid..It's DESTROYED the entertainer profession completely..and it makes me sick. The ONLY reason I play this game is because of all the new things you can do..well, thanks to Holocrons and Macros...the only unique parts of this game have gone down the crapper.
Karquile
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:04 am
#34
Yes, and while you're at it, TAKE OUT F KEYS. Make people type "/flourish 1" by hand. That'll teach these lazy Entertainer slackers a lesson! 
The previous poster was correct, AFK entertainers were an extremely common sightwell before the Hologrind was introduced - not just before the first FSCS was unlocked, but before anyone started grinding meaningless Masters at all. If you walked into a Cantina in August or September, most of the musicians and dancers were macroing, AFK or both. (Many a non-AFK "Socializer"entertainer has time to /emote and chitchat with all their socializer friends because the real flourish work is looping in the background.)
I also don't think you quite got what Haden was saying about macros. Sony is acutely aware that as a Windows game, SWG can be automated by clever programmers in ways that are nearly impossible to detect or prevent. By leaving macros in, they are trying to level the playing field so that theuserbase isn't divided into uber hackers and powerless peons. If you got what you think you really want, and they took the macros out of the game, I guarantee you that people would still do all kinds of AFK powergaming. Only the average SWG player would suffer. That's not a profitable outcome.
The underlying problem with Entertainer is that it's a grotesquely boring grind for a profession that's basically in there for atmosphere and chatterers. Before the Hologrind, you at least knew that the AFK dancer frugging in the corner was someone who WANTED to be an Entertainer, and would be back at the keyboard later to talk or whatever. After the Hologrind, it all became meaningless.
Mordaris
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:17 am
#35
Take out macros? Why? Just because we don't play like you do? Don't you think that smacks of elitism? SOME of us leave our characters there for the benefit of others that have to play at 2 or 3 in the morning so that there will be someone in the cantina to heal them. I will soon be amaster musician, mostly due to leaving my character playing overnight. When I wake up the next morning, I have lots of fresh healing experience, and why is that? Because some poor soul came into the cantina and NEEDED HEALING. Once I make Master, I plan to do more of the same for the benefit of others. If SOE were to take YOUR advice, I would only use my skills for the benefit of my group, friends, or guildmates, and nothing more, because I don't have the time to be actively at the keyboard 24/7.
Which way makes more sense? To take macros out so that only active entertainers are in the cantinas, rendering them empty during the wee hours, or leave macros in so that there is at the very least an AFK troupe of performers to heal people, giving the illusion of a 24/7 band? If someone wants to AFk macro, who are we to tell them they can't? It's pretty easy to tell who is actively behind the keyboard (and therefore who should be tipped) by the presence or absence of an "AFK" tag.
Just my 2 credits.
Moepple
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:19 am
#36
Hi,
I played an entertainer myself and I really regret that I had to unstrain all the Entertainer-Skills. However, I think Entertainers are a dead class, which is sad(sp?). Entertainers were a good aproach for an MMORPG and they are ver starwarsy, but empty cantinas because noone wants to play an entertainer arent. 90% of the cantinas are empty when I visit them (not because I visit them :-) ) and thats what I hear from others too. If I have to go to Theed or Coronet to meet an entertainer something is wrong. At the moment there are some entertainers on other spots, but before the word "hologrinding" was invented I saw them only on those two spots, Theed and Coronet. At the very beginning of the Game there were a lot of entertainers, they lasted until they decided to make something else with their skillpoints. And thats the actual situation, almost nobody really wants to play an entertainer as a main char, most people do it when their main-server is down on other servers or if they have a very special way of playing online games (not a bad way, just not mainstream).
The first Time I saw those entertainers I instantly remembered the one and only thing I liked at AC2 was to be able to play music with other Players. This is what I am missing now, and others too. Being able to play and dance together with other Players is something that would make Star Wars Galaxies more "Starwarsie", but also something that never works until the system changes.
What might be a good aproach to change this and to bring life to cantinas again after the Hologrinding is gone?
Well, my suggestion is a Skillpoint-free Entertainer-Skill-Line. This could be a totally new Class like a "Amateur Entertainer" class which is not able to Heal. Or simply remove the skillpoints-cost for all Entertainer, Musician and Dancer skills which arent Healing or Image-Design related. That way you get Skillpoints back in the Pool for new classes and give entertainers more points to give their Profession more diversity. In other words, you would save28 Points to become a Master Entertainer, 56 Skillpoints for Master Dancer or Master Musician.
If you like it or not, by reducing costs noone will be hurt, the class will stay the same cause you can only heal if you spend the points.
What I amalso missing is a way to pay for entertainers without tip them. Paying for such services is something that only those people accept as "normal" who are used to such things, like citiens of the United States :-), other countries might not even understand the concept of a tip (well, in germany you usually give a tip, but its not like in the u.s., in europe the service is always included and tips are very low). Entertainers Should be able to set a fee for their service and if you watch or listen to them you simply should get a pop-up that asks you "do you want to pay xx credits per point healed or buffed to that entertainer?" and if you accept it automatically transferred to the entertainer every tick.
It might look a bit weird the first time you think about it, but at the end of the day you will see that this might be an aproach that has some benefits for the game, the entertainers and even the Devs and designers, cause they would get points back into their "pool" :-)
Read ya.
Moepple
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:27 am
#37
TH said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Do any members of the development teams regularly play an entertainer?
Yes. Myself included. Many of their wives play entertainers as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This best describes the Problem, Entertainers are the "My Wife" class. Maybe this is why there are only a few entertainers, most of the players might not have seen a RL woman in their room except their mother yet :-) (well, and in those magazines noone reads).
Read ya.
sweatyclimber
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:37 am
#38
Mordaris wrote:
Take out macros? Why? Just because we don't play like you do? Don't you think that smacks of elitism? SOME of us leave our characters there for the benefit of others that have to play at 2 or 3 in the morning so that there will be someone in the cantina to heal them. I will soon be amaster musician, mostly due to leaving my character playing overnight. When I wake up the next morning, I have lots of fresh healing experience, and why is that? Because some poor soul came into the cantina and NEEDED HEALING. Once I make Master, I plan to do more of the same for the benefit of others. If SOE were to take YOUR advice, I would only use my skills for the benefit of my group, friends, or guildmates, and nothing more, because I don't have the time to be actively at the keyboard 24/7.
Which way makes more sense? To take macros out so that only active entertainers are in the cantinas, rendering them empty during the wee hours, or leave macros in so that there is at the very least an AFK troupe of performers to heal people, giving the illusion of a 24/7 band? If someone wants to AFk macro, who are we to tell them they can't? It's pretty easy to tell who is actively behind the keyboard (and therefore who should be tipped) by the presence or absence of an "AFK" tag.
Just my 2 credits.
you know this is just an excuse ... i run an all entertainer guild and we alway have about 5-10 people on no matter what the time of day/ nightis ... it is against guild rules to afk..... so how are there not healers out there? we are just one guild. At odd hours there are simply less players but does that mean we should make afk doctors when i want a heal or a buff? how bout afk hunting partners? or afk ch to train my new pet i bought fromt he afk BE. Its notpeoples right to get healed everywhere at anytime but there is also player out there ATK do do so.
Vaelorn
Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:41 am
#39
Iconcur with several other people here.
Letting people use macros to gain experience or loot while they're AFK is GAME-BREAKING. It's not "the nature of the beast". It's "the currentplague of this game".
As far as I'm concerned, these AFK macro-zombies don't have as many rights as the people who are actually at the keyboard. Why? Because the AFK macro-zombies ARE NOT ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME. The player is nowhere near the computer, it's just thegame interface running the character in a constant loop. There is no player involved at all. What do AFK macros accomplish? The users of AFK macros get FREE EXPERIENCE AND LOOT, because they're not earning it if they're not even there playing! Meanwhile, the people who actually *are* playing the game have to suffer from lower framerates and higher ping times because of all the macro bots draining resources.
Give us the definition of "exploit" in this game, and AFK macros will fit pretty well.
Before the flames come in telling me why AFK macroexploitation should continue to be allowed to plague this game, I'll go ahead and offer rebuttals to some of the most common excuses:
Excuse #1: "They're playing the game the way they want to. You have no right to tell them how to play this game!"
Rebuttal #1: "THEY ARE NOT PLAYING THE GAME AT ALL. That's the crux of the entire problem! There is no player involved, just an empty player-character sucking down *my* framerate and *my* ping times and getting *them* all the benefit of exploiting the macro. Everyone who is actually at the keyboard has to suffer the consequences of everyone who is using an AFK macro to cheat for free loot and experience."
Excuse #2: "Vendors can still make money for merchants while the merchant is AFK or not even online! What's the difference if Joe Schmoe wants to use an AFK macro to gather loot from NPCs, or gain experience from newbie city monster spawns, or sample for resources?"
Rebuttal #2: "Vendors cost money to run. Vendors require skills to use them. Vendors require items to sell, items that have already been worked on by a player, or produced in a player's factory which also costs money to run. Even using the bazaar costs some small amount of money, and has limited space for wares. A personal harvester is not at all expensive, but it does have cost; half the people using an AFK macro to sample resources are probably just doing it for the experience anyway."
Excuse #3: "AFK macros do not hurt this game, because EVERYONE can use them! You shouldn't get upset that someone is using an AFK macro, because you can use the exact same macro to do the exact same thing. The playing field is even, so you have no right to complain."
Rebuttal #3: "You almost had it right. AFK macros DO hurt this game, because EVERYONE can use them. You will know this game has died when you log on and find 23 people in a city, and every single one of them is AFK and using a macro to gain experience or loot. AFK entertainers completely ruin the game for the players who actually want to PLAY an entertainer. AFK people slumming the newbie monsters around newbie cities for weapon or creature experience completely ruin the game for the real newbies who cannot go anywhere else to hunt. AFK spammers sitting in front of the Coronet starport shouting out locations to a shop ruin the game for everyone who hears them shouting dozens of times in a row."
Excuse #4: "Fine. If you hate AFK macros so much, just put the character on ignore. Then you don't have to listen to them anymore."
Rebuttal #4: "No, it's not fine. The command to ignore other player characters does absolutely nothing for the 13 AFK macro-zombies bumbling around in the middle of the cantina floor. The ignore command only prevents text from the character, it does not completely hide the character or remove them from the game."
Excuse #5: "If you hate the game so much, why don't you quit playing it, and stop crying about it here on the boards?!"
Rebuttal #5: "I don't hate the game. I hate the AFK macro-zombies in the game. The playerbase should not be forced to deal with them on a nightly basis, so I fully expect them to be removed orhindered to preserve the integrity and spirit of this game."
Telling the players that AFK macroexploitation isan unwanted but permanent activity, and that you have absolutely no plans to remove or hinder them,is simply inexcuseable.
If you *really* don't want people using AFK macros to cheat at your game, then you certainly will implement a system to prevent or hinder the use of AFK macros; the computer savvy elites who work around your system to continue using AFK macros to cheat will then be open to bans from this game.