Entertainer Archive
Thread: Pub.23 Can't buff myself anymore...
Thunderheart wrote:
NoviceRangerFlurry wrote:
Tell that to any of the great composers!
For the sake of discussion...
I don't necessarily disagree, but the ability to do that is one of the things that makes them truly great. Not everyone can do that.
How about only allowing master entertainers/master dancers/master musicians to inspire themselves then? I believe this would be a reasonable solution.
TH, it's not typical to see lifeless dancers or musicians either. You don't go to clubs or concerts and see the performers going "Tip me plz, top tippers in bio..." and other such. You see the performers electrify and interact with the crowd. You see the musicians, singers, dancers energizing not only the crowd with their performance, but themselves, because they feed off the energy.
I don't see how you can dare compare real life with this when we have other important non-realistic issues such as the AFK bots filling our cantinas. The only thing I can say you all managed to get right(and about time you all got something right) was making these buffs unable to be AFK-macro'd. Unless I'm wrong there, but time will tell.
People who don't enjoy the profession play it. They buy an account, grind our profession, and have a 24-7 bot available for their desires. Another thing "not typical," because I've never heard of someone going to their closet, dragging out an ever-ready performer, and making the performer entertain them. People ALREADY take advantage of our skills by AFK grinding and then using the bot for their purposes, and now they even get the general, artisan, and entertainer at a low level, before the novice boxes of Dancer or Musician.
Your explaination of "not typical" does not stand, TH.
Thunderheart wrote:
DrElJefeMD wrote:
By this Logic then....
What is the point of skill points? If i invest in skill points I should get the benefit of those skill points. Why can doc's heal themselves? Take this idea to its logical conclusion and what's the point? Major step backwards.
I would say that the major difference is that Doctors have a very strong role in the field. Regardless of their ability to buff themselves, they are needed to heal.
Entertainers are relying on Inspiration Buffs as a key interdependency.
But Thunderheart,
That is not interdependency.
That is dependency.
So more players will take entertainer skills for the benefits. As an entertainer, this is a great thing! It means more people may enjoy entertainer!
Really, you developers need to chill out and not take this issue so seriously. Sometimes, we have no individuals who need what we have, and our only "customer" is ourself.
QFE
PoetDancer wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
DrElJefeMD wrote:
By this Logic then....
What is the point of skill points? If i invest in skill points I should get the benefit of those skill points. Why can doc's heal themselves? Take this idea to its logical conclusion and what's the point? Major step backwards.
I would say that the major difference is that Doctors have a very strong role in the field. Regardless of their ability to buff themselves, they are needed to heal.
Entertainers are relying on Inspiration Buffs as a key interdependency.
But Thunderheart,
That is not interdependency.
That is dependency.
So more players will take entertainer skills for the benefits. As an entertainer, this is a great thing! It means more people may enjoy entertainer!
Really, you developers need to chill out and not take this issue so seriously. Sometimes, we have no individuals who need what we have, and our only "customer" is ourself.
I don't really see the point in forcing entertainers to be dependent on other entertainers. That doesn't create income through interdependency at all because it simply shifts the existing cash from entertainer to entertainer within the class, rather than gaining income from another profession.
In addition, with every other profession, if you want to do something yourself, you can take the skill points and do it yourself. If you want to harvest hide, all you need is novice scout. That is a huge ability that comes rather "early on" and isn't gated in any way. Why should the entertainer professions be any different? If you want to get the skills, you should be able to buy them, same as any other profession.
Now, the issue of buffing "early on." I would agree if the buff were something extremely beneficial or necessary. It really isn't though. It's 10% xp, which isn't a big deal. The real good stuff is the later buffs which are provided by dancers and musicians. And hopefully if the good stuff is added for combat profs, it will be added in exactly the same manner. Yes, the buffs come early on, but they're not worth much either, so it's not a big deal if people are buffing themselves with very very minor unnecessary buffs.
Finally, I have to bring up the b-word. Bots. Not being able to buff yourself combined with a still-passive mechanic on the general buff will lead to bots. If you, as an entertainer, are out with your group, you cannot buff yourself along with your group for hunting. Therefore, even with an entertainer in tow, it's better for the group to see a bot.
In short, I think entertainers need to be able to benefit from their own skills, otherwise they continue to feel marginalized as a double standard is applied to them.
Thunderheart wrote:
Boatsheets wrote:Perhaps you can make it so that MASTER dancers or musicians can buff themselves, but anything less can not. Just a thought.
Thunderheart wrote:
NoviceRangerFlurry wrote:Tell that to any of the great composers!For the sake of discussion...
I don't necessarily disagree, but the ability to do that is one of the things that makes them truly great. Not everyone can do that.
It's a good thought
I certainly can't promise anything, but I will pass the idea along.
I'm baffled.
I sing in the shower. I sing when the radio is busted in the car on the way to work.
I'm not great.
I don't know if it INSPIRES me, per se... but my amateur efforts certainly have a greater effect on ME than they would on an audience.
salvestrom wrote:
TheCapn2000 wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
DrElJefeMD wrote:
By this Logic then....
What is the point of skill points? If i invest in skill points I should get the benefit of those skill points. Why can doc's heal themselves? Take this idea to its logical conclusion and what's the point? Major step backwards.
I would say that the major difference is that Doctors have a very strong role in the field. Regardless of their ability to buff themselves, they are needed to heal.
Entertainers are relying on Inspiration Buffs as a key interdependency.
That is an idiotic explaination...if entertaniers cannot buff themselves...then neither should a doctor be able to buff themselves...
I agree that a doctor must be able to heal in the field...
healing and buffing are 2 very different things though....
A doctor buff is a medical injection that requires very little expertise to apply - god knows the human race knows how to stick a needle in itself. But being inspired is something totally different. It relies on the watcher to observe something "moving". While it's possible for an artist to find inspiration in their own work, the reality of the game is that inspiration buffs are now what they do for the game - unless you like to just watch and listen for the hell of it. Preventing self-buffing is a means of securing the usefulness of full entertainers, not just weaponsmiths with a little dancer thrown in.
knock...knock...this is a game not real life...
but to use your example...are you saying that an entertainer cannot "inspire" themselves with their own performance?
lammergeier wrote:
I don't know if it INSPIRES me, per se... but my amateur efforts certainly have a greater effect on ME than they would on an audience.
LOL
I inspire myself all the time!
Thunderheart wrote:
Bionic wrote:
TH said yesterday that he was going to try to find out the details for us and post when he got them. I PM'ed him today reminding him, and he read it, so we'll see what happens.
Greetings,
Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be able to buff themselves with Inspiration Buffs.
Here's why:
On the game side of things, basic Inspiration Buffs come early. The concern is that folks can take just a few basic skills to buff themselves and the Inspiration Buffs provided by dedicated Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be in as much demand as they should be because other players will be able to do it themselves.
While I understand that it certainly isn't as convenient as it would be tobuff yourselves, other players will want that same convenience for themselves. They will buy a small amount of skills for the convenience and the demand for your Inspiration Buffs will drop.
Simply for thesake of discussion: conceptually, the idea of the buff is that your character is "inspired" by watching a fantastic entertainer perform for you. Inspiring yourself by entertaining, dancing or playing music is certainly possible, but it isn't typical.
Tralmek wrote:
lammergeier wrote:
I don't know if it INSPIRES me, per se... but my amateur efforts certainly have a greater effect on ME than they would on an audience.
LOL
btw, I do a GREAT Tom Waits.
Panthu wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
DrElJefeMD wrote:
By this Logic then....
What is the point of skill points? If i invest in skill points I should get the benefit of those skill points. Why can doc's heal themselves? Take this idea to its logical conclusion and what's the point? Major step backwards.
I would say that the major difference is that Doctors have a very strong role in the field. Regardless of their ability to buff themselves, they are needed to heal.
Entertainers are relying on Inspiration Buffs as a key interdependency.
You are replying to a crafter there TH, not a dedicated Entertainer as you call us. If he wants to pick up Novice Musician or Dancer to buff himself on his crafter rather than come to one of us, let him. I'd much rather see him do that than pick it up on an alt. It's still one more person to dance with and play music with at a party or in a cantina, even if he is mainly a crafter, he's still someone to be social with. If he wants to come to it from our side and not the patron side, that's fine.
Rather than trying to trick people into talking to us and force the point, you guys need to loosen up and let the social players do what we do best, socialize with people. We have so many goofy restrictions and arrangements to force interaction that the whole thing loses it's point, rewarding Social players.
Tailors count on people buying their clothes for their interdependency, they can still wear what they make. People often pick up a skill set for their own usage primarily. The functional parts of Entertainer should not be viewed any differently. IDs can change their own looks. Are they not Entertainers who count on that same skill being applied to others for their interdependency?
If you are concerned about our income, give us better missions with higher pay outs. Do not deny us access to our own abilities we have earned though. It isn't fair, it isn't fun, and it does not improve our social playstyle nor support our social play goals.
DrElJefeMD wrote:
Actually, I have 5 accounts and 6 characters (one account is a full template jedi with alt). Only three of those characters are completely combat or ranger oriented. The rest, yes are crafters. Nice for once that we are agreement on something.
DrElJefeMD wrote:
What is the point of skill points? If i invest in skill points I should get the benefit of those skill points. Why can doc's heal themselves? Take this idea to its logical conclusion and what's the point?