Entertainer Archive
Thread: Posted on the corr forum: State of the entertainers game
Electro
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:51 pm
#27
Tiaga,
As a twice over Master Dancer (two galaxies), Master ID, Master Entertainer and Master Musician (twice)you have summed up exactly the state of things. I have slowly become entirely bereft of any hope for the professions I want to play. Something has to be done, it has to be done soon, and the Holocrons going away will NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEMS.
Elhana
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:44 pm
#28
I've been a Dancer since the first day I bought the game over 7 months ago. Back then things weren't too bad, I danced, I chatted to people, made several friends. Even over the course of my first two weeks things changed. More and more people would go AFK, at first for good reasons, then overnight, then while at work/school until the 23/7 "bots" came in. The game's simply not been as much fun for me since then. I still drop by cantina's every so often but the large numbers of AFK'ers, still, and spamming macros makes me walk out practically every time.
I've considered dropping Dancer several times but I just can't bring myself to do that not unless there was some hugely important reason I did. I've never been a huge combat fan, I've tried and dropped a couple of other MMORPG's purely for the forced combat to level systems. That sort of game just isn't for me.
The forums have been getting a lot more hostile recently and a few weeks back I was feeling very hostile towards the devs as well, infact in one thread reply I called for the Entertainer professions to be revamped. The holo grind may well end with the Jedi publishes but the problem won't go away now. The door leading to 23/7 buffbots, wound and fatigue healers has been opened and it won't close now until the devs do something.
Sure the Hutt Casino is something I really can't wait for as it sounds like something completely new and never seen before. Just a shame it only serves as a distraction and not as any sort of solution to our problems.
I really hope we do get some attention from the devs but I really don't expect much to happen anytime soon.
"Que se ra, se ra"
Drygo
Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:48 pm
#29
I don't think I've ever seen a more a propos post then this. For once, I truly don't think I have anything to add, and my post will be under 50 lines. LOL
I'm just here to say, great job. In my mind, you've summed up everything that concerns me. This is probably the best post I've ever read on these forums.
Cirroco_Una
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:48 pm
#31
Great post Tiaga! It's high time we started getting the attention we deserve! Entertainers are just as important in this game as combat players are, and we deserve just as much achknowledgement and help from the devs as they do!
KeyTokikoMima
Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:40 pm
#32
I think there DEFINATELY needs to be a more direct pipeline for communication. I'm sure ThunderHeart, JustG, and RuneSabre do their best, but.. Either they have their hands tied, or just don't understand Entertainer issues.
Perhaps a special Dev just to talk to Entertainers, another for Hybrids, andanother for Crafters? I'm add one for Combat, but it seems like what the 3 Devs we have are focused on already.
And frankly, 'not enough resources' is not going to cut it. Especially when we KNOW they are transferring their 'resources' to JtL (e.g. GreenMarine, apparently ALL the UI programmers, etc.) Hire more! Don't tell me theres no one you could hire.... We pay you $50 for the game, and $15/month to SUPPORT the game. If it's not enough, raise the rates. I'd gladly pay $18 dollars a month if I knew $3 were going to pay the salaries of extra people that add content. Good company's don't allow shoddy service to go on because 'there aren't enough resources.'
Panthu
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:08 am
#33
I know I've said it multiple times already Tiaga, but thank you again. I hope we all see some good results from your effort. 
Ravanne_Esi
Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:55 am
#34
Kwee wrote:
Excellent document Tiaga. I know there are plans in the works for Dancers/Musicians, but I feel one big reason we (speaking as a Dancer and Musician) feel neglectedis that therehas beenless communication from the devs than would be desirable.
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There is definitely a strong feeling of being misunderstood as social professions. I have never heard of a dev talk fondly of his Dancer or Musician or Image Designer character, and while I do believe they have much love and good intentions for all four Entertainer trees it is not comfortingnotknowing ifthey have ever walkedin our shoes.
The problem is that there has been communication, and it has said that they have no time or desire to do anything for us until they do the things they deem important. Since they have said they can't or won't do anything for us till after JTL it is the same as saying they have no plans for doing anything for us, since by that time they will have a whole new set of priorities and we aren't one of them.
I think one of the fundamental problems the DEVs have with dealing with us, a social group, is that the types of people who are drawn to becoming programmers and developers are not normally social people. This is not to say there is anything wrong with them but they are unlikely to really understand our issues and game play style. Are any of the DEVs women? Are any of them real world entertainers, and I don't just mean do they play an instrument or dance occasionally, do any of them perform in front of an audience? How are they going to fix any of the problems we have when they do not understand the issues that are important to us and are unwilling to listen to what we are trying to tell them?
A good example of how they don't understand our issues and gamestyle is the problems with the base dances in lyrical and formal, yes they look good which seems to satisfy the DEVs but they look horrible to anyone watching us which is a major concern to us.Or the issue of falling as a master dancer, it does nothing to interfere with game mechanics but it does interfere with us giving a good performance for our audience. Or the hand animated flourishes, they work but they don't look good and many of us don't use them because of it.
Just_Bri
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:51 am
#35
I would have liked to say something insightful here, but it seems to have all already been said.
KittySung
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:54 am
#36
Awesome post Tiaga. You wrapped together thousands of words and emotions into one clear post on how most if not all entertainers throughout SWG feel. Thank you for this.
The only thing I could imagine that might at least work against buffbots (which is only a tiny portion of the problems) is a buffing "minigame". It has most likely been suggested before, if not multiple times, but if a system message tells you what flourish or what dance/music piece to do next randomly to get someone buffed it'd hard to write a macro for it, as long as doing the wrong one (or a few wrong ones) messes up the buff. It's not fun, convenient and whatnot, but it stops botbuffing.
Too bad we have to come up with something to counteract that which the devs made possible eh. 
Sir_Voor
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:28 pm
#38
Tiaga, your 100% right but they will never listen toour needs and the results of their action,because they don't see the finacial down fall of their current actions. So I suggest a need to fucus on how improving social professions will improve their bottom line.
- Market share; there is a large growingmainly untapped female gamer and social gamer market thatSWG hassome of, but they are lossing. The money to be made in this market could easly be in in the billions.
- It takes money to make money; it is pass time to hire a social devs team! The current dev teams are great at what they do, and need to keep working on combat parts of the game. But to really tap into the social gammer market a new dev team is needed, and like the current dev team there will be a 10x return on the investment.
- Don'tlook at other failures; The Sims Online was a big failure to into the social gammer market, but failed for reasonsSWG will not incounter. TSO failed to see that spouses would not mind player hitting on and flirting with real people, instead of NPC like in The Sims. Thus thisis why it failed and is something you need not take into account in deciding to invest.
- TV viewer market is decreasing; With the ever shrinking market of viewers of TV, that are looking for new sources of at home entertment, the the money to be made is.... well you can guess how big it could be
and I'm sure SWG is already tapping into it, but with a good social aspect of SWG that can grow. - How big should the team be? Answer: How big of the market share do you want? bigger the team the bigger the market share.
Message Edited by Sir_Voor on 06-12-2004 03:37 PM
Starlance
Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:47 pm
#39
I don't really have much to add. Just wanted to say how much I agree with everything Tiaga has said and a big thanks to her for saying it! Then entertainer professions all need some help and it is, indeed, much overdue.
Honestly, I haven't been playing SWG all that much lately, but I still have my account, and still do play some. If things ever do improve, I'm looking forward to playing more. Right now though . . . it's just lost a lot of the fun. I'm still willing to hope, and keep that account going a little longer but . . . well, the fact that it's $15 a month and it's buying me less and less actual 'fun time' is not entirely lost on me. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Still a Master Dancer on Chilastra
-- 'Seph Iridan
Honestly, I haven't been playing SWG all that much lately, but I still have my account, and still do play some. If things ever do improve, I'm looking forward to playing more. Right now though . . . it's just lost a lot of the fun. I'm still willing to hope, and keep that account going a little longer but . . . well, the fact that it's $15 a month and it's buying me less and less actual 'fun time' is not entirely lost on me. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Still a Master Dancer on Chilastra
-- 'Seph Iridan