CUEmu - Thread Posts

Atiknin

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:49 pm

It's curious to me... I have been an entertainer for a long, long time. I have played in every (NPC) cantina or tavern in our galaxy. I occasionally go out into a small cantina just to see if people are there, and they never are. For example, two weekends ago, I spent a fair amount of time on Dathomir. I did get one, very appreciative, group, but for the other 2 hours I was there, nothing was going on. When I was last on Naboo a couple of weeks ago, I hit all of the NPC cantinas, and there was no one in the smaller towns (no bots, no afkers, nobody). The way I figure it, anyone in the game is, at most, 15 minutes from an entertainer, because you can reach Theed or Coronet from just about anywhere in 15 minutes. I'll concede that there are places where you're farther, but in those cases you're also 15 minutes from any town where you can find a bot.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't notice buffbots stealing my business. Maybe they are and I don't know it, but tips were just as bad a year ago as they are now. People don't tip -- they just don't. There's no interaction really required with us.

That is, as I see it, the ultimate problem with buffbots. Flaws (design flaws, I mean) in the abilities of entertainers allow people to use our services without tipping or talking or anything. When you give what is essentially an NPC the ability to do our jobs, you completely dehumanize us. I have read many of the posts in this thread, and TH's, and there is a large portion of the population which sees no need for PC entertainers at all. Many, many players have a sense of entitlement to the services of entertainers, and that sense of entitlement is reinforced by the very premise of performing for tips.

I agree that entertainers should be given abilities that favor at the keyboard playing versus away from keyboard. There has to be a few fundamental changes to our class to make at the keyboard players more valuable in a gameplay sense. I have little faith that such a thing will be done in the short term, and not much faith that it'll be done in the long term.

The no-recursive-macro fix is a blunt tool for this kind of repair. I would by far prefer new abilities, but it ain't gonna happen (please, oh please, somebody prove me wrong). The real question is: should entertainers simply accept the roles of NPCs? It seems like a large portion of the community would say yes -- we should accept the fact that a social playstyle is not valuable unto itself.

To answer the question posed by the thread, no buffbots are not really the problem. The problem is a profession which needs meaningful abilities. My concern is that without some relief there will be no real (I mean non-afk, I mean people who play their entertainers as a primary character) entertainers left. Eliminating buffbots will give us some relief -- primarily from a sense of entitlement to our services. And maybe we'll be reborn as humans again in the eyes of most of the community.

Gramon Blatt, ME/MM

SpaceCrazy

Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:59 pm

#249

ArthurP wrote:
I've been Master Entertainer and owner of my own cantina for many months - and I'm NOT happy about this nerf. I don't a buff-bot macro - but I DO run a flourish macro while I'm at my keyboard so I can run my city in /tells - welcome vistors to my cantina and entertain them at the same time. Now, this will kill my songs, and add to the things I have to jungle.

Sheesh... The whiners ruin the game again. Keep it up folks! Your arrogant superiority over other players will teach SOE all they have to do to make ppl happy is alternate NERFing professions instead of actually coding new content.

So instead of looping the macro, make one that runs for 30 minutes or so, displays a nice bright colored message on the screen when it's done so you know to push the function key again? Have it also send you a tell just to cover your bases. Pressing a key every half hour shouldn't put too much of a burden on you.

I use a macro when I perform buffs - ATK buffs, but a looping macro nonetheless. And I LOVE this change. It's necessary to keep dancer and musician a viable profession choice for people. I'll simply create a macro that will run long enough to apply the buff.

Mesca Phost - Scylla - Rifleman/Ranger/Pilot
Crem Darkstrider - Wanderhome - Smuggler/TK/Brawler/Pilot
Mesca' Phost - Bria - Grand Master Entertainer
(Master Ent/Music/Dance/ID)

Cancelled 7/27/05 - I joined to play Star Wars, not Jedi-BH Wars. You've ignored/gutted/abused just about every other profession in the game, while spending most of your time working on Jedi and BH as they related to Jedi. You've basically killed the game for anyone who doesn't want the glowstick. Congratulations.

Schardour

Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:40 am

#250

They won't be doing much good anymore, will they?

TIL KISMETA

lTlSlCl

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable,

but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

XzXzXzXzX

Also...Tayel [PLD]

PistolDance

Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:03 am

#251

Groovymarlin wrote:

PistolDance wrote:

you forgot...

There are lots of entertainers, everybody's happy

>> Masters are AFK in cantinas because the profession is a bore

No, I didn't forget it. I left it out because on my server IT NEVER HAPPENED. All the master dancers I knew had a blast playing their toons. The only long-term AFK masters I ever saw were buffbots.

I'm sorry you think the profession is a bore. I do not! I love it! And I know plenty of other musicians and dancers who love it as well. You can just take your negativity back to your server and pout, I'm glad you're not on mine.

Well I know a lot of musicians and dancers that quit because it was a bore. Im glad you have fun, a lot of people see a lot of stuff wrong with the profession.

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

Kealles

Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:30 am

#252

PistolDance wrote:

Groovymarlin wrote:

PistolDance wrote:

you forgot...

There are lots of entertainers, everybody's happy

>> Masters are AFK in cantinas because the profession is a bore

No, I didn't forget it. I left it out because on my server IT NEVER HAPPENED. All the master dancers I knew had a blast playing their toons. The only long-term AFK masters I ever saw were buffbots.

I'm sorry you think the profession is a bore. I do not! I love it! And I know plenty of other musicians and dancers who love it as well. You can just take your negativity back to your server and pout, I'm glad you're not on mine.

Well I know a lot of musicians and dancers that quit because it was a bore. Im glad you have fun, a lot of people see a lot of stuff wrong with the profession.

Actually, a lot of musicians and dancers quit because they were tired of the spammers and buffbots. Remove those, and many will return. But I'm sure that's already been mentioned countless times already...

v Caihsk Ahxi'lya
Master Musician | Master Dancer | Master Entertainer | Master Image Designer
v Akeira Ahxi'lya
Rifleperson | Bounty Hunter

Elioi

Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:43 am

#253

The reason you don't see free Doctor Buffs is not because they have droids. Its becasue good Doctor Buffs are expensive to produce, lots of materials, lots of named resources, lots of resource stat dependence.

Perhaps the best way to kill free buffbots is to make dancer and musician buffs have a "Buff pack" item that uses charges with each buff. Make them as tough to put together and make well as Doc buffs, lots of stat reqs and named resources. Then the buffbots won't want to go to all the trouble, nor give out free akf buffs since they have to invest something besides skillpoints and macro knowlegde.

JohnMarble

Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:05 am

#254

Yeah, I suggested that quite a while ago, Elioi, before the buffbot craze even took off. Most people didn't seem to like the idea. It would change the dynamics of the professions, I suppose. Then again, I'd like to see buffs of varying qualities. I was arguing with people in the Flurry forum about the recursive macro removal, and some achiever-type asked me how I would like it if I had to visit another character before I could ever play a note or buff anybody. I think he thought I wouldn't like it... but it got me thinking, that might be cool. What if bio-engineers needed to first buff a musician before the musician could buff?I mentioned to the guy his suggestion would actually, in turn,make it harder for HIM to get a buff. Then he was quiet.

But... these suggestions were not how entertainers were originally envisioned. I think the devs would like to stick with their original ideas on how entertainers should work. It is easier for them to remove one command that causes all kinds of problems, rather than reworking two elite professions.

Besides, not just entertainers are playing afk. Some rifleman lying prone and afk at the top of the geo cave is probably lamer than a cantina full of zombies.

Anistasio

Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:16 pm

#255

you forget doctors can buff themselves which helps them in combat and to make money in other ways than doctor. Entertainers cannot buff themselves..they can only help other people make money..thats why people drop entertainer, becuase they cant use it to help themselves not because of buff-bots

Fikus-Ahazi

-Your greed will destroy you-
- 4/29/04-

Drygo

Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:42 pm

#256

JohnMarble wrote:

Yeah, I suggested that quite a while ago, Elioi, before the buffbot craze even took off. Most people didn't seem to like the idea. It would change the dynamics of the professions, I suppose. Then again, I'd like to see buffs of varying qualities. I was arguing with people in the Flurry forum about the recursive macro removal, and some achiever-type asked me how I would like it if I had to visit another character before I could ever play a note or buff anybody. I think he thought I wouldn't like it... but it got me thinking, that might be cool. What if bio-engineers needed to first buff a musician before the musician could buff?I mentioned to the guy his suggestion would actually, in turn,make it harder for HIM to get a buff. Then he was quiet.

Well, I almost always either get buffed or drink accaragm before I perform and before I buff. So, yeah, in my little world, there is a cost associated with dancing and playing music. That's never an issue for me and I *welcome* interdependence in this game. It's one of the main reasons I enjoy playing.

But... these suggestions were not how entertainers were originally envisioned. I think the devs would like to stick with their original ideas on how entertainers should work. It is easier for them to remove one command that causes all kinds of problems, rather than reworking two elite professions.

Besides, not just entertainers are playing afk. Some rifleman lying prone and afk at the top of the geo cave is probably lamer than a cantina full of zombies.

- I support hawtpants

Springbok

Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:13 am

#257

I'll have to disagree with Johnmarble in one sense. Yes! There will be as many doctors if you take away the droid and stick 'em back in med centers to buff. Why?

Doctors can still heal and be indispensable aids to a hunting group. They can rez. They, like us, would still be able to buff and heal wounds in camps. (We are talking musicians and doctors with no combat skills.) Every NS, Krayt, DWB and so on groups would absolutely want a doctor around, med droids or not.

However Dancers & Musicians can't heal while everyone else fights, we would be invaluable to the CM's and Doctors, Squad Leaders and so on while the rest of the group fights, but no, we can not heal wounds if not in a camp, or player's structure, hotel, or cantina. A scout/ranger would have to stay in there camp to enable us to stay in a camp while the group fights close by. We are useless in the field for the practical applicationsfor a hunting group of any target. A doctor is still a necessity.

SOE does not want entertainers to be bards of EQ, fine, I agree. However we would not be if we were enable to heal minds while the group fights. I would prefer to take mind buffs away all together. Allow us to heal outside the confines of structures, be it made of hide or steel or concrete. (Sorry Dancers, I can see the argument that while your fighting an FS NS witch the fencer can't watch you for inspirational purposes, but they could hear music. But for balance dancers would have to be included) Make it only for healing 3 or 4. Even just masters, then the true entertainers can benefit and not just allow any John or Jane Doe to pick up a slitherhorn and once again make us obsolete.

Mazforpresident

Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:34 pm

#258

I think that the whole issue of people getting away with free mind buffs from botters is definitely one of the main problems currently. Any dishonest person would head straight to the bot instead of a live for that reason. Even if that wasn't an issue, then you still have the problem of bots being able to underbid a live for buffs. So...

1. I say add a way to make people have to pay for them whether the entertainer is live or a bot, initiated after a successful buff. I'm not talking for just wound healing or bf healing (leave tipping for that), just enhancements. That way, even the live musician won't get yanked by those same dishonest people who claim they didn't get the mind buff anyway, which in fact they did.

2. Again, put in some better enhancement capabilities for lives, where macros cannot complete them. (based on random delays) This would give people a reason to pay more for better buffs from lives instead of bots severely underbidding for the same buffs.

Of course, pulling out recursive macros may indeed seem like an easier solution, but it may cause some unseen or unwanted impact on the current system. I'm just trying to offer some other options, though it's probably too late in the game at this point.

Logain

Master Bot Musician

-The Forsaken-

Ahazi

*Brought to you by Mazrim' - Ahazi*

Entertainer Archive

Thread: BuffBots, are they really the problem?