Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainer Report 7/25/03
Thanks for the support...those who support the report
Of course I still have that wingnut on the official board ranting at me and screaming how I'm a n00b because I didn't support what HE wanted submitted....screaming the only people who want "deny service" are those trying to extort tips....what an idiot..
/rant
I'm ranting and screaming? Well, if you insist... I'm sorry but just because you screwed up and all of your l33t friends on the VN boards are too ignorant of the entertainer class (you do realize hardly any of those people agreeing with you on the vn boards actually play entertainers don't you? They are nearly all powergamers and I bet only 1 or 2 of them play this class) to offer any intelligent criticism on the subject, does not make me an idiot. I am a master entertainer, a master musician, a darn good dancer, and I think I have a grasp on what our class needs. The fact that you suddenly decided you wanted to post on these boards when you saw that you could have a cheesy little title next to your name for one month, and the fact that you were TL for a class completely unrelated to entertainers, frankly doesn't weigh very heavily with me.
Why don't you spend some time gathering data in-game, instead of farming another nine thousand posts on the VN boards and getting data from people who may or may not even be registered to play this game.
*deep breath*
Ok anyway... don't care anymore. I'm gonna buy a nice little house on Naboo and knit pot holders for a while.
Hijo wrote:
"If you think the only people who want a deny service are those want to force tips, then you have more issues than anyone else does."
I believe my post says 50%, and that is very reflective of what I've read here. I am not taking all of my data from your one "so what are your issues thread", I am taking it from everything that has been posted from day 1 of these forums, i.e., from people that have played the class more than some of the more recent posters, people for whom entertainer comes before combat and making money.
And no, I don't want your "position"... I want to be able to maintain my own opinion.
Yeah a guy takes a job, and runs with it. There is a sour grape somewhere there. Is that a 50% you measured? Do you know what my primary profession is? You make assumptions, and you are also making generalities in favor of a arguement. Your position is weak, and you weaken it more by saying 4 out of 5 entertainers prefer the Fizzz over any other instrument.
You play and people tip, most dont care about tips, this would work both ways, and I think it should be individual. with heal IV and two heal I guys, I do a lot more then the two heal I guys. If guy cheeses me off I /deny or /bounce him; I wont get exp. I would prefer a way to have them moved outside the bar.
I think that is preferrred by4 out of5 dentists for their patients who chew gum.
Hey, vsvf11a, nice work. You are going to get a lot of abuse from people who disagree, but I think that comes with the territory. I wouldn't waste time getting into a heated argument with them. If the Dev's chose you, then they must respect your decisions and your information gathering. Some people, and the most vocal ones, will disagree with you no matter what you do, but that is just part of the job.
I agree with a majority of your suggestions, but personally, I don't believe a majority want a denial of service option. That's fine though, if it is implemented, then so be it.
My experience is that people want an ability to enforce tips. The solution to dealing with abusive customers has been to report them, IMO. I've seen players get booted a couple of times for their behavior towards entertainers. In addition, a simple ignore by the band will usually cause the abuser to lose interest.
Quite frankly, people are going to have deal with healing people they don't like when they are entertainers, it comes with the job. Its a trade off with the meds, who can only heal one person at a time, but they can choose who they heal. Entertainers can heal a lot of people at a time, but they don't have the choice who they heal.
Anyway, keep up the good work. Like I said, I agree with most of your suggestions, but disagree with just one. Consider my comments my input and do with it what you will.
I read the threads too. I see those reasons, but I don't think they are really going to be full time Entertainers/musician/dancers/hairstylists like you (I assume) and I. I do hear in game, and see in game morons coming in and harassing entertainers andstarting duels in the cantina (which is rude but legal). I have /reported them, I have never seen a CSR, and I have had heard of a CSR coming ONCE.
Let me tell you what, when I see someone telling me that tips are required I boot them from the group after I tell them how it works. My rule, and when I amband leaderit is a RULE, written right on the top of everyone score. You talk to the customers, you greet them, and you thank them. When they leave without tipping, you thank them too. I have gotten a lot of tips from people who just forgot.
In groupspeak I ask how tips are and if I see some new people who are trying getting stiffed a lot, I share. A sum of 1k from me isn't hard to make, 1k for a novice entertainer is a train. If they don't get tipped I sometimes even help them with clothing (costumes) and Image Design.
Hijo, I owe you an apology for maligning your reasons for posting, I can't edit them. You obviously care, and I think we have the same attitude, but we disagree. Lets support our correspondent together and agree to work to help him make Entertaining better in SWG.
I think the main thing to remember is that entertainer is a novice skill and therfore will reflect the issues of those starting out in the entertainment business. Whereas the issues that effect the professional dancers, musicians and image designers will be directed to and reported by the corespondents for those professions. I didn't report my dance issues on the entertainment board even though some of the issues do fall into the entertainment category (formal is entertainer lyrical is dancer).
Novice entertainers are more concerned with tips and abuse than professionals are as professionals we have learned to deal to a greater extent due to more time spent with the issues realizing that drawing attention to the abuser gives them exactly what they want attention ignoring an abuser isthe better option as they soon get bored once they know their behavior has no effect on us. And while I don't agree that a /denyservices function is the way to handle the issue I also don't believe that SoE will either private cantinas and /kick will do the same thing. It would be much better to allow the performers to reward a good client than to deny a poor one. As for money no class in the game is able to survive soley by using their skills at lower levels. All classes go through the period of forced mission work in order to advance to a skill level that rewards that skill. In a small cantina with a small band and a regular clientel that appreciates my near master healing abilities I can easily pull in over 10k per night as a dancer with tips alone, in a large cantina with a crowded dance floor that is more of a bypass area for travelers I rarely get 1k in tips but that is offset by the experience that is granted during those "power" sessions.
Hijo wrote:
To those who don't think there are people who would abuse /deny, and a lot of them (abuse meaning using as a way to get more tips in this case), then you haven't read these boards for very long. Zefo, I don't care what profession you are nor do I need to know that in order to be able to read posts, many posts, from people who want /deny as a way to get more tips. In fact, this is one of the two main arguments in favor of getting deny. I notice none of those people are standing up to defend themselves here because they know it's wrong, but do a little more research and you'll find the threads...
Just so we're clear, is it wrong for anyone to demand tips for a service, or just entertainers? If I'm a doctor and ask for money to heal someone's wounds, is that "wrong"? And if it is wrong, why do the rules of the game allow it? Shouldn't they allow anyone who can offer a service to demand payment for those services?
CantinaFly wrote:
Just so we're clear, is it wrong for anyone to demand tips for a service, or just entertainers? If I'm a doctor and ask for money to heal someone's wounds, is that "wrong"? And if it is wrong, why do the rules of the game allow it? Shouldn't they allow anyone who can offer a service to demand payment for those services?
Up front no. "Hey I will shoot you with a Stim pack for 200cr" "I will give you this BFG-9000 for 10kcr."
As you play in a Public Cantina, yes. It is a public place. You are free to play or not play. They are free to liten or not listen. They are not free to be rude, andyou are notallowed to be rude to demand tips.
In all fairness, if you declare a strike, you can tell your customers the show will not continue because player_00 did not pay admission. I am saying that there needs to be a way to deal with rude customers, and not to give them a way to continue in that antisocial behavior.
It's really difficult to try and compare the medical profession to the entertainer profession. While both professions need a outlay of funds to supply training and basic tools of the trade the tools of the medical trade are more expensive and need to be replenished based on usage from every heal. If the entertainer community had an expendable commodity that we were selling then demanding or asking for tips based on the amount we heal might be reasonable but as it is we put up no funds other than basic outlay (similar to every profession) we have no right to demand tips. Tips are given as an appreciation for the services we provide they are not a salary.
I've played both entertainer and medic and in my opinion the medics have a basis for asking for payment where the entertainers do not, which is why most doctors leave the public med centers fairly earlier in their careers.
Yes Nydance, nothing is expended per heal when we heal.
I like tips, I want tips, but I am not going to alienate my cusomter by requiring tips.
This denial of service talk is scary...has anyone really thought it through and still thinks it should be implemented? What about bands?
I will never play in a band that is using a denial of service for anyone, regardless of what they are acting like. If you want to deny service you should leave the public cantina or stop playing. Anyone should be able to hear your music. People will use denial not only for griefers, but you and me both know that people will deny service to anyone who doesn't tip. It won't happen a lot but it will happen. If we are in a band and you deny service to someone, but they listen to me instead...they still can hear you because we're a band and healing is the same regardless of which individual they /listen to. So you can deny MY service then? Or else denial only works solo.... And no, don't toss aside my argument because you think I'm whining because my issue was mentioned...the only thing I wanted mentioned actually was. 