CUEmu - Thread Posts

Xyrdre

Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:19 am

A bot doesn't do a better job of buffing than a live performer, assuming that the master is competent and proficient with buffing and that the bot doesn't have an SEA advantage. It's that a bot doesn't get bored being in the same place all day, every day, doesn't get tired and log off to sleep, and the l33t d00d doesn't run the risk of getting their buffs cut off in the futureby offending the bot by not tipping. Oh, and there's no "hassle" of having to deal with another person that's not in their circle of combat buddies.

I've shared the experience of players coming in asking if there's a real entertainer available for buffing. I know that some people do. And I've even met a few players that would forego a mind buff before using a bot on the principle of the thing (very rare, but I have met a few). ButI could never say that 99% of players do this; I have no idea how many people never set foot deeper inside the cantina than to stop at the buffbot at the door. Or who just never came to the city I'm in because they made straight for the bots elsewhere.

Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...

Xyrdre

Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:15 am

#15

Rrowann wrote:

I don't tip an Entertainer who doesn't entertain me. Social interaction entertains me. Buffbots do not.

(I also don't use buffbots.)

/cheer!

Go forth and teach!

Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...

Vermicious_Knid

Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:43 am

#16

I don't tip afk entertainers or afk anyone.

I always tiplive healers/entertainers.

My buffbot gets a few tips, but I don't ask for them.

Message Edited by Vermicious_Knid on 07-02-2004 02:06 PM

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Every time I log in I'm terrified they changed the game to Dance Dance Revolution without telling anyone after holding a "focus group"

Ybagi

Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:43 am

#17

Vermicious_Knid wrote:

I don't tip afk entertainers or afk anyone.

I always tip afk healers/entertainers.

what? so which is it?

My buffbot gets a few tips, but I don't ask for them.

if you do have a buffbot... the absolute worst thing you can do is provide free buffs! it degrades the product for the entire profession, imagine architechs giving out houses for free (they practically do lol) noone else would be able to sell anymore and people will just expect free buffs from that point on.

Yv
Undead Warrior
Alchemist
Malganis Server
World of Warcraft

Vermicious_Knid

Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:10 am

#18

Above post corrected to read that I tip for live services and not for afk.

I do have a buffbot. I made him mostly for myself and a few friends. I never really just left him on until the sabotage stuff started happening. Now he's in my guild cantina most of the time.

I'm very close to dropping him in Theed.

I expect you guys to complain about bots, they are tne antithesis of what you do. You have every right to complain.

When you start sabotaging, that's a different story. You're going to do what little damage is left to do all by yourselves.

I understand that what some people are doing to buffbots is within game mechanics, as are buffbots.

Ybagi wrote:

Vermicious_Knid wrote:

I don't tip afk entertainers or afk anyone.

I always tip afk healers/entertainers.

what? so which is it?

My buffbot gets a few tips, but I don't ask for them.

if you do have a buffbot... the absolute worst thing you can do is provide free buffs! it degrades the product for the entire profession, imagine architechs giving out houses for free (they practically do lol) noone else would be able to sell anymore and people will just expect free buffs from that point on.

Message Edited by Vermicious_Knid on 07-02-2004 02:32 PM

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Every time I log in I'm terrified they changed the game to Dance Dance Revolution without telling anyone after holding a "focus group"

Beery

Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:47 am

#19

"When you start sabotaging, that's a different story. You're going to do what little damage is left to do all by yourselves. "

Erm... a buffbot is a sabotage machine. It exists to kill entertainers. It's kind of ironic when a buffbot owner comes in here to accusehis victims ofsabotage. You've got some nerve, buddy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Vermicious_Knid

Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:42 am

#20

No, I have some grasp of the English language.

You may feel it's justified, but it's sabotage just the same, your excuses for this passive aggressive behavior and its accompanying whining notwithstanding.

sab·o·tage (sb-täzh)
n.

Destruction of property or obstruction of normal operations, as by civilians or enemy agents in time of war.
Treacherous action to defeat or hinder a cause or an endeavor; deliberate subversion.

tr.v. sab·o·taged, sab·o·tag·ing, sab·o·tag·es

To commit sabotage against.

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Beery wrote:

"When you start sabotaging, that's a different story. You're going to do what little damage is left to do all by yourselves. "

Erm... a buffbot is a sabotage machine. It exists to kill entertainers. It's kind of ironic when a buffbot owner comes in here to accuse his victims of sabotage. You've got some nerve, buddy.

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Message Edited by Vermicious_Knid on 07-02-2004 03:53 PM

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Every time I log in I'm terrified they changed the game to Dance Dance Revolution without telling anyone after holding a "focus group"

Rrowann

Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:11 pm

#21

I don't tip an Entertainer who doesn't entertain me. Social interaction entertains me. Buffbots do not.

(I also don't use buffbots.)

--

"I'm not a Wookiee. I'm an Imperial."

Xyrdre

Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:22 pm

#22

Vermicious_Knid wrote:

sab·o·tage (sb-täzh)
n.

Destruction of property or obstruction of normal operations, as by civilians or enemy agents in time of war.
Treacherous action to defeat or hinder a cause or an endeavor; deliberate subversion.

Yes, well... whatever. I could argue as well that the 'sabotage' of buffbots is simply counter-terrorist activity taken against the sabotage against our professions and playstyle. A playstyle which is an intended inclusion in SWG, notjust someoffshoot byproduct by a handful of overzealous players.

If the social playstyle has been sabotaged by the evolution of the looping macro, and SOE development has yet to do anything toprotect the social playstyle, is it really so surprising that vigilante action turning the same techniques back against the saboteurs is being employed? Even if the intent of buffbots was not to destroy gameplay for the social professions, it is now abundantly obvious and clear that it has done so.

Will anyoneattempt to argue intelligentlythat AFK"entertainers" andbuffbots have not hindered and damaged gameplay for the paying customers of thesocial playstyle? We are asking about the affect on players of the social playstyle, and it hasbeen well established that these phenomenae have disrupted enjoyment of the game from the social playstyle perspective. The testimonies of the social playstyle players abound in the entertainer forums, and the evidence is clear.

I've highlighted the words 'normal operations' inthe provided definition above. If, and only if, unattended macroing is considered to be "normal operations" of the entertainer professions in this game is there really a leg to stand on here. This definition goes more to show that AFK macroing, and laterbuffbots, have sabotaged the gameplay of the social playstyles and professions that were provided to paying customers who were looking for something different in a game. Some buffbots could even be said to be "treacherous action to defeat or hinder a cause or an endeavor", that endeavor being to get these social playstyle professions repaired so that they are once again played, rather than automated. Note that I say "some buffbots", because it here becomes a question of intent, which is difficult to prove without direct testimony. It is worth questioning, however, that in light of the direct and clear evidence of the effects that buffbots have had on the gameplay experience for players of the social playstyle, is the continued practice of operating a buffbot not a hostile, or at the very least disdainful, attitude displayed towards the actual players of thesocial playstyle? Yet some peopleappearunable toconceive that these socialplayers might just be upset.

It is my belief that, generally, if not the vast majority of the time,actions taken by the aggrieved against buffbots is not an attack against the non-present player behind the buffbot, but an attempt to derail the tool of the destruction of the playstyle. The Buffbothas becomethe Death Star of the entertainer professions, and some of the aggrieved players have decided to take a trench run or two. Ironically, an entertainment Galactic Civil War has erupted, yet people are surprised when those crushed beneath the heels of automation choose to fight back. Yes, using "the tools available in the game".

Buffbots aren't helping to fix the problems for the included and intended social playstyle. Buffbots are not helping to fix the problems for the subscription fee-paying players who came to this game because of these advertised playstyle options. No matter what justification for buffbots is presented, it is not helping to solve the problems for the social playstyle which has been directly hindered; and as such, if it is not a part of the solution, it is part of the problem.

Buffbots sure do help an entirely different playstyle option, that of the Combat Only playstyle. Any argument that buffbots are valid take only this playstyle's view as valid, and disregard the whole pictureof SWG as intended and promised - that of a game which supports multiple playstyles. Over-reliance on buffs (of all kinds, not just blue)is simply not a valid argument for the destruction of an entire classification of playstyle, and really are a discussion that should bedirected to conversations aboutthe legendaryCombat Balance. That said...

I genuinely believe that a very large part of this problem lies in the overall combat overreliance of buffs. If having to be pumped full of chemicals and dazzled up by entertainers is the only way to play the game from the combat players' perspective (which I've seen too... I know that a lot of the added content is simply inconceivable and unplayableif not buffed and uber-templated), then therein lies the core of the problem. If your stats just aren't your stats unless you're buffed to the hilt, there's an inherent problem in the gameplay design implementation for the combat player. I often wish that buffs were not a part of this game. In many ways, they've caused so many more problems than they've solved.

Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...

Drygo

Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:58 pm

#23

PoetDancer wrote:

Shouldreceiving service from a buffbot be a tippable or non tippable service?

Technically, I guess they are providing a service. However, they aren't actually playing. They're doing more damage to the game and to two elite professions, than they are helping. Therefore, no, I would have to say it's not a tippable service. In fact, most buffbots and owners of buffbots could care less whether they are tipped or not. Their only concern is making it as easy as possible for a certain group of people to excel in PvP or PvE. They don't care about the entertainer professions whatsoever. They only care about the combat professions. As such, they are not entertainers, and do not deserve tips.

- I support hawtpants

Ybagi

Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:58 am

#24

I think what he is talking about is inviting a buffbot to your group to prevent it from functioning...

Anyway, If live entertainers are doing buffs, the buffbots are always invited into our group.

If noone is buffing, then leave them alone.

As far as the sabotage goes...

sab·o·tage (sb-täzh)
n.

Destruction of property or obstruction of normal operations,

Normal operations of entertainerprofession(paid for what you do)is to provide entertainment, healing and buffs for payment

If you are not getting paid then you are sabotaging the profession

as by civilians or enemy agents in time of war.
Treacherous action to defeat or hinder a cause or an endeavor; deliberate subversion.

tr.v. sab·o·taged, sab·o·tag·ing, sab·o·tag·es

To commit sabotage against.

To prevent the function of the buffbot is preventing the sabotage

If someone cuts the brakes in your car, sabotage, would you call it sabotage when you get those brakes fixed? I think not.

Yv
Undead Warrior
Alchemist
Malganis Server
World of Warcraft

Beery

Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:56 am

#25

PoetDancer wrote:

"Shouldreceiving service from a buffbot be a tippable or non tippable service?"

Heck, owning a buffbot shouldincur a ban from the game. Shut down the player's accounts and delete his characters. That's basically what buffbots are doing (indirectly)to players who suffer from their activities. SOEis losing more money from people who are cancelling their accounts due to the fact that they can't play the game as advertised than they ever would if they cancelled all secondarybuffbot accounts and their primaries.

That would teach the go&&@#^ leets a lesson.

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Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Cookiemon

Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:43 am

#26

I would never EVER consider tipping someone who is AFK for anything. In fact I wish they'd do something like make the recipient of the tip have to manually accept the tip.

As a dancer myself, I know how rarely people bother with tipping me while I'm actually there, and talking to them. Personally I always tip any entertainer I use for healing, or buffs if I know they are actually there.

KEEP MUSIC LIVE!!

Entertainer Archive

Thread: Poll: Tipping and Buffbots