Entertainer Archive
Thread: What should the end game be like for entertainers?
as an aside note to the post above... i'm having trouble competing with camps. there's really not any incentive to come to my cantina as opposed to setting up a camp right next to it. battle fatigue, sure, but even that isn't enough to make someone walk a few hundred meters to my house instead of setting up a camp right where they're at. i just don't feel like what i can offer is significantly better than something that costs a measly what.. 17 resources? give us something to justify having a cantina open... maybe even something... heaven forbid... good enough that people would be willing to pay an access fee to get in (the horror, the horror!)
moving on....
Consumables
musicians have a little bit here, they're able to craft instruments. which isa start. but those are one time purchase items, and i only know of one that anyone besides a musician would purchase- the nalargon, as a house decoration. we need something like stimpacks, that we can create, and that people will use, and continue to buy. i guess this isn't end game content, per se, as much as it is 'everlasting' content, which we don't have a lot of right now. not to mention, a way to make a little scratch.
i figure musicians could 'record' a song while using a recording device while they performed or something, and then make an item or schematic datapad item??) that would play the song back for the player that uses it, and give the using player some sort of benefit, like a small mind stat buff, or maybe heal some mind damage. of course, it would obviously also play the song too, cause how many of us WOULDN'T kill a thousand Ewoks to be able to hear some different music out in the wilderness, once in a while, huh?
dancers area bit trickier, cause the obvious thing would be to make a 'blue glowie' style holocron image of the dancer performing come up when the item is used. not to mention that i think that would required a somewhat complicated image capturing system, wouldn't it be silly seeing someone pull one out in the middle of a fight, to heal mind damage? maybe we can let musicians only take care of mind damage, and dancers only take care of the short duration mind buff items that can only be used outside of combat?
also... i think for these musician/dancer recordings, there should be two different types: one which can be used from datapad (more expensive), and one which can be used from droids (less expensive). cause... well, darn it, droids should be doing these sorts of things (.....and serving drinks! when, oh WHEN can i get a droid that i can program to sell drinks, while patroling around my cantina? BAH!)
i know i haven't said a lot about image designers, but i think they could also really use some consumable items... cause lets face it, how often to people get image designed? how about this- make-up kits (or for the guys.... MANLY makeup kits 
). these would give you say 5 uses, and let you ID your hair color, eyeshadow, eye, lip color, etc. but thats small potatoes... how about letting IDs make costume kits? let em ID a whole new 'skin' that a player can buy, and wear for lets say a week that would turn them into that race for that week. obviously, these need to cost about 10-20k per piece, otherwise it gets silly, but i'm sure theres a few people out there who'd like to see something like that in game.
hard to code but i would love to see the masters musicain or masters dancers exp be pooled for the entire group
therefore instead of so many of the groups not wanting them around would want them around could be done as in a "bonus tic",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
i do understand with a master musican or master dancer around exp goes up but the exp they individualy get be added to the pool of experaince as well
Slick - Eve is actually a very good example of some of my points (particularly the ones we disagree on). Eve has very little NPC content and little-to-no 'mission' type content, yet it is not dead - by the same token I quit Eve because I got bored, not bored because there was nothing to do but bored by the fact that the game can so easily take everything away from you due to its unrestricted PvP, the fact that you are either camping a pirate spawn, mining or PvPing all of the time and there is nothing else (read: RP) to do. I suppose Eve is an example of a game that caters to the PvP crowd.
This proves that a game doesnt have to pander to the 'acheiver crowd' to survive, but I suspect it does to become as big as EQ - and here is where we find the dilema
Do the devs keep their 'vision' and accept lower subscriber numbers or do they ditch the 'vision' (as Anarchy Online did) in favour of an EQ-style system (which everyone complains about, yet is ultimately what people ask for) to try and boost player numbers - Personally I was hoping that SWG would 'break the mould' and offer completely open gameplay. I believe the core problem is that most players are lazy and want content slapped in their face (which is why so many GM'ed events over the years of various MMORPGs have been ruined by a few idiots) and dont want to do anymore than perform instructions that the computer gives to them (in which case they are better off sticking to single player games).
Its probably worth defining content - theres game world content (player cities etc) and theres game play content (missions etc). Players will always exhaust game play content faster than any dev team can introduce it - this leads to the introduction of randomly generated content (such as our destroy missions) which invariable gets longer and longer (Anarchy Online missions are a perfect example of this). I dont think anyone finds this content engaging its just a mechanism to obtain 'item x' or more xp for 'level y'. On that subject why spend huge developer resources implimenting player cities? Its not something thats going to occupy the acheivers in anyway?
In this context SWG suffers because the loot system is not structured in the same way (i.e. the items are rarely good/useful/valuable rewards) and 'levels' are generally easier to gain and less tangible in terms of immediate use to the player, and I guess this is the main reason why SWG randomly generated missions are much simpler by comparison (they just wouldnt be worth doing if they took 4 hours). Which is why I believe SWG cannot go down this road as far as content is concerned - the 'level and loot' system has such a different set of priorities that the players wouldnt find it rewarding enough (I also believe it should not go this route but thats another story)
Any system that doesnt force camping for a specific item, or endless mob bashing just to gain a level and do it all over again as its core gameplay is a good thing in my opinion. SWG is such a system. Sure people grind to get their xp - but they _choose_ to grind (although they may feel forced) SWG wont make you feel like your 'missing out' if you dont level as fast as humanly possible. Unfortunately the 'EQ mentality' has effected many players into believing that this is the only way to play.
I dont believe the GCW is anymore 'endgame' content than it is game content, you can participate in the GCW as soon as you declare for a faction, sure certain professions are going to be better suited to PvP and more so at Master 'level' but 'endgame' implies something that can only be experienced once you cap your character out. Interestingly I find that most people tire of PvP easily (usually when they are loosing/winning far too easily/quickly), nerfs/balancing will shift the balance of power as will the number of people present and its not normally long before these players find they are fighting the same opponents over the same objectives with perhaps the same resultstime after time (Planetside is a good example of how people get bored of this kind of gameplay) - I have never seen PvP as an 'end game' for any MMORPG (for the record I dont consider Planetside to be a MMORPG).
Personally if people are of the opinion that a game that doesnt spoon feed them content isnt worth playing I wont be sad to see them leave SWG..... There is a group of players who accepted that previous MMORPGs only catered to the powergamer/leveller/PvP types, perhaps its time forthe others to realise that SWG might not be for them?........
sciguyCO wrote:Psst: try "/dazzle 1".
There are three levels to each effect, not specifying a number automatically does the highest one.
cool thanks for the info. I asked several of the other high level entertainers in my area a while back and no one hed any idea that it worked like this.
Firstly, I have to question the Entertainergameitself before I can consider and "end game" for the profession. All therethat existsright now are the entertainment mission terminals, aside from what gaming opportunitiesother players can provide you. There should be themeparks to accomodate the entertainers; perform at Jabba's Palace, Lady Valarian's crashed starship club, the Emperor's Retreat, etc etc, for example. Themeparks for entetainers could be even more structured than regular themeparks. Anyone can begin working their way through a themepark but, maybe the third stage would require you to play a kloohorn, the last a narlargon. And the "themepark" can send you on a circuit of playing at lesser venues before you work up the prestige to (progress and to be paid to)play at a specific establishment. Of course, each themepark should end with a monetary and positive faction reward.
There should be "circuits" for entertainers to play, touring the performers in cantinas and hotelsaround the planet and maybe to other planets, with more than enough pay for shuttle trips between each venue. The players check with the bartenderfor which venues areopen and which pay best. Lord Vader knows that some of those cantinas in the backwoods are just simply dead!I've had a lot of my non-entertainercharacters in the remoter areas take up Dance or Music just because there was no one to cater to us in the back woods of Talus or Rori. I would hope the game designers could find a way to determine underused areas on the fly and increase the payout for those places dynamically to attract more players there. Granted, it doesn't soundmuch differentfrom the Entertainment Mission Terminals; maybe those should have been handled differently. At least the venues are places where players can actually can some benefit from their services and the player gets paid for playing there whether or not there is an audience.
The middle game should be about concerts and grouping. The "circuits" mentioned above could easily be tied inwith the group leader taking the mission and all group members getting an equal payout from the establishment. The higher level performers should be allowed to hold a concert anywhere within the city limits with all the healing benefits of a cantina or hotel. There are some nice places that can be used for this if not just a nice concert in the park just outside the city proper (but still within the limits).
It might also be nice for the higher end players to gain a type of "pet", so to speak, or a number of them. These pets would help the player to perform, ie. dancers for musicians, band for dancers, dancing/playing partners. All of them would be subject to group flourishes and easily synchronized. Higher level pets could even be the equivalent of bodyguards and roadies so frequently seenas the entourage ofhigh profile celebrities.
The "end game" would be the top levels of the themeparks (and possible rebookings), massive concerts, and running your own cantina/club/hotel with your own pet performers, yourself, or players you've hired.
As far as image designers, I don't know what kind of game they should want. I've always wanted them to combine with scout to make up some sort of "Spy" profession but, that's just me.
I dont see them introducing band/dance troupe pets for Entertainers/Musicians/Dancers because those roles are filled by other players (and this supposed to be a multiplayer game)
Roadies and Groupies maybe though :-)
ASHRID wrote:
I dont see them introducing band/dance troupe pets for Entertainers/Musicians/Dancers because those roles are filled by other players (and this supposed to be a multiplayer game)
Roadies and Groupies maybe though :-)
i'm gonna turn this one around on you a bit, for the sake of argument: why do we have combat pets in the game, because combat roles are filled by other players? (nevermind the fact that PCs can't be effective tanks at the moment please 
)
i know that forming a band or dance troupe is something a lot of people enjoy. i don't think the addition of 'backup dancer/musician' pets would really hold a candle to the things an organized PC group can do. in fact... it might enhance it. instead of your group of 3 wookiee dancers... you now have a DOZEN wookiee dancers 
it also gives those of us who play at odd hours (like me) a chance to geta performer group together... something that isn't very easy at 1am EST at the edge of the krayt graveyard
SlickRiptide wrote:
Here's an idea to get things rolling - Note that by end-game, I'm referring to anything after master,whether it be special quests, special benefits, special abilities, new game mechanics, whatever, as long as it's entertainment oriented.
The Uber Technique - Once her XP is maxed out, a master continues to earn XP at the normal rate. However, this "overspill" is put into a "fame" pool instead of an XP pool. The fame pool is used to "buy" a one-shot special effect. Something like a two-minute fireworks show going off behind the band, or a ten minute duration when all special effects for the entire band cost 0 action or the band levitates 10 feet off the floor Once activated, the XP cost of the one-shot is subtracted from the "fame" pool and it can't be re-used until the master has once again filled up her fame pool to the proper level.
A "fame" ability like that would give the masters something truly special and the rarity would make it extremely valuable, to the master if to no-one else. If it was spectacular enough, the master's would find the motivation to continue their craft and work to get the prestige that such a presentation would give them.
/CHEER
This Idea would be fantastic
/Cheer
Here's an idea to get things rolling - Note that by end-game, I'm referring to anything after master,whether it be special quests, special benefits, special abilities, new game mechanics, whatever, as long as it's entertainment oriented.
The Uber Technique - Once her XP is maxed out, a master continues to earn XP at the normal rate. However, this "overspill" is put into a "fame" pool instead of an XP pool. The fame pool is used to "buy" a one-shot special effect. Something like a two-minute fireworks show going off behind the band, or a ten minute duration when all special effects for the entire band cost 0 action or the band levitates 10 feet off the floor Once activated, the XP cost of the one-shot is subtracted from the "fame" pool and it can't be re-used until the master has once again filled up her fame pool to the proper level.
A "fame" ability like that would give the masters something truly special and the rarity would make it extremely valuable, to the master if to no-one else. If it was spectacular enough, the master's would find the motivation to continue their craft and work to get the prestige that such a presentation would give them.
Make this an area buff and you got me.....
-Sen
I like what Sendari suggests
I like to RP a bit.
A person also sugested lose the age old mmrpg minset.
As a Master I'm free.
I'm free to build up a clientele.
I'm free to travel,well as much as I can afford to
Right now from my perspective I'd like to see more of a need for us outside of Cantina's. I'd like to be able to offer something to a hunting group real time.
I'm hoping with player cities a full time playing master will be a wanted thing for your cities.
I dont need roots... I like to tour
Our class if different then fighters.
If you dont like playing music or you dont like standing in one spot for any length of time ...well you may be in the wrong profession.
But mosssst of all we neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed songs!
We neeeeed instruments and the ablility to customize them
I look at SWG more of a virtual world then a game.
But then again thats just my opinion and usually I'm faily clueless...yep