CUEmu - Thread Posts

Zilod

Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:24 pm

PistolDance wrote:

Zilod wrote:

in my opinion bonus to buffs is not a solution

players are too used to buffbots

an example

some time ago i was grouped with some atk entertainers we had bot a mdance and a mmusic so we where able to buff at twice the speed of a buff bot

we where advicing that but people simply ignored us at all and went to the local buff bot

alse there where not entertainers around not because the profession is boring but because afk hologrinders have ruined the profession at the point that is no more playable

at publish 10 hologrinding will stop but then we will still have buffbots that make entertainers look like npcs, just click on it and you are ok.

buffbots cut also entertainers profits and interactionwith other players (as said above)

so why a player have to do entertainer in a world full of buffbots?

i can assure you that is just frustrating...

advices?

stop buffbots

remove the /join and autojoin commands

or make an interface to give buffs

a simple one like a secure trade or an ID one with the service you are giving, the money the customer offers and both that have to press an OK button, or even a more complex one with list of actual customers or listening people and the ability to set buffs from there so will be possible to handle multiple buffs at same time.

remove afk (and most of them are holos or buffbots) and entertainers will begin to play again, before december (big hologrind) there where tons of atk entertainers around.

So the solution to the problem that combatants cant find someone to buff them and buff them sufficiently is to remove their ability to receive the ones they can get?

If this goes through the way you all want it, you will see less customers and chefs will make alot more money. The only time entertainers will be buffing is when they buff for raids, and those entertainers will most likely be in the guild that is raiding.

YET, if you fix the problem that made people "used to" buffbots and sometimes prefer them, THEN fight to get rid of them, your problems will be solved and more than likely wont arise again.

people are used to buffs cause

1) they are not many atk entertainers around (as you said)

2) buffs are cheap, you give them what do you want, if you want

3) they are easy to use

1) entertainer are few cause

afk entertainers hologrinders at first and buffbots now have made it pointless (see post above or many other post if various entertainer forums)

2) buffs are cheap

really you can't do anything about that, also i will prefer to not pay doc for buffs or armorsmiths and chefs for their work... for sure i will be happy but this is a social game so even other players should have benefits for their time spent playing

3) easy to use

as you said buffbots do everytime good buffs while atk have more troubles about that, this is something to look at, the entertainer buff should be dependant just to time spent playing/dancing, not by dance, instrument or some other issues, also an entertainer should be able to change music dance whitout break the buff.

buffing is quite complex and inappropriate for large number of players, expecially as they take many around 10 minutes for a single player to get a buff, again the suggestion to have a buff list can help, the entertainer can just add people wathing him to that list and all of them will get full buffs. players have just to ask to be added to the list (as they ask group now with afk buffs) and tip the entertainer.

but again this topic was more about buffbots as a problem for atk entertainer not in how to improve buffing.

improving it is necessary and needed, but so far as afk players (buffbots in this case) make this profession useless and ruin player interaction i will seeentertainer pointless and frustrtaing.

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:31 pm

#15

Zilod wrote:

again entertainers began to stop to play cause afk (hologrinders at first)

now we have buffbots that are still the same problem, afk npcs that make entertainer profession pointless

This is untrue, I was master dancer for the first time when the professions population began to dwindle, it was due to lack of content and the lack of entertainer professions being a viable source of income.

wow 2 hours is really low time expecially compared to the 5 mins you spent to find an atk entertainer...

add entertainers to you friend list, learn what cantinas are populated when you play...

5 minutes?The time is really based on how long I need to wait for one tolog on

What if I only have 2 hours to play?

So I spend 10minutes of that finding an ATKdancer (IF they are willing and IF I can find them) another 10 finding a musician (if I spend my time finding one while I get my dance buff) then of course there is travel if the entertainer doesnt come to me. So that is almost20 mintuesout of the two hours I have to play just to find mind buffs so I can kill a few overts.

Now you can say "you dont need mind buffs to play" but shouldnt I have the option to get them? Shouldnt the profession be like other support characters professions with dozens ready to play their role? Isnt it the developersjob to make these professions fun enough for someone to want to play them? Since they made it a necessity to have a mind buff for PvP, why arent they making it interesting?

and you don't do the same thing for docs?

and how much time you spend in a doc line?

sometimes i have troubles to find a doc buffing.... i think we need docbots too

There are docbots And I can find a doc buffer in one or two shuttle trips. Mostly one.

also is not true that you need entertainers or you will be unbuffed... grab some brandy and you can solo elders and krayts

In PvP the mind goes first, buffs are needed. Do you really want to be replaced by chefs?

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:48 pm

#16

Zilod wrote:

people are used to buffs cause

1) they are not many atk entertainers around (as you said)

2) buffs are cheap, you give them what do you want, if you want

3) they are easy to use

1) entertainer are few cause

afk entertainers hologrinders at first and buffbots now have made it pointless (see post above or many other post if various entertainer forums)

You have answered your own questins here, buffbots came so heavily into play because

1) they are not many atk entertainers around (as you said)

3) easy to use

as you said buffbots do everytime good buffs while atk have more troubles about that, this is something to look at, the entertainer buff should be dependant just to time spent playing/dancing, not by dance, instrument or some other issues, also an entertainer should be able to change music dance whitout break the buff.

YES! Lets work on these problems before depriving other players of the entertainer content?

but again this topic was more about buffbots as a problem for atk entertainer not in how to improve buffing.

Incorrect, I started this thread because buffing should be improved before the ability to find an effective/easy is taken away. If it isnt, it will cause many more problems to the entertainer community than already exists.

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

Banthabutcher

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:02 pm

#17

The problem is that two different personalities have been shoved into the same niche of gaming.

On one hand is the "entertainer" personality. They're the real musicians and dancers you see in cantinas. The ones who actually talk while grinding and stop to say to themselves "Wow, that was a really good combination of flourishes I just did. I better write this down."

The other is the "buffer" personality. A person who just wants to give his/her friends the best advantage possible.

Due to the reliance on the mind pool as of late, entertainer buffs have become more important. My belief is that entertainer buffs were designed to be the perk of being a musician or dancer, not the main cause of it. But every system is so interdependant that people have to bother with an entertainer to succeed, thus imposing more buffers into the Entertainer niche, which was originally designed for the "true" entertainers.

You are exactly correct. The buffbot problem goes beyond our disconcerns about the integrity of the musician and dancer professions. It can never be truly solved until the Combat Balance comes to hopefully straighten out this mind pool reliance, thereby lessening the need for our buffs. Buffbots just won't be practical anymore if using their services is optional.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't even have entertainer buffs. There are other ways to making a musician or dancer feel wanted in the overall game.

Kodo' Bonodawieedo

Master Musician and First Class Soldier!
"Every time someone gives a post one star GarVa kills a kitten."
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Zilod

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:07 pm

#18

in fact is a circle

entertainers began to leave game/profession mostly cause hologrinders made profession no more fun

my opinion ok but i'm MM and ME from before hologrind times, i also mastered entertainer for my fs on another server and on both servers all entertainers i knew left the game or the profession, when i asked why generally the response was cause afk hologrinders.

so

afkers lowered atk hologrinders lowered atk population

->

buffs become more difficult to get and buffbots began to spread

->

new buffbots ruined not only player interaction but also entertainer profits, so even less reasons to be an entertainer

->

more entertainers leaving the profession or player not considering it funny

->

and so on and so on

i think now is time to break this cycle and the only way i see it is to

1) stop hologrinding (soon happening)

2) stop buffbots, is true that they where not responsable of entertainers decay, but they are still an expression of afk enteratiner play, that is the thing that have ruined the profession.

then will it be possible to speak about new song/dances, fixing ones that are not working, improve buffing and adding content... i can have 5000 songs and 200 instruments, but is not funny to play them solo not speaking to anyone cause cantina is full of afk npcs

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:36 pm

#19

PoetDancer wrote:

Its because the authorization is not an issue with a bot. It automatically authorizes your player's /watch so that the buff can be received.

But ATK entertainers can buff the same way AFK entertainers can, so why so many half buffs or no buff?

/setperform and the group buff werenever enhancementsto live players. I am convinced /setperform and the group buff were live entertainer nerfs. Why? Because it LIMITS my effectiveness to give out the things I have to give with my limited online time. Why can't I buff 21 people at a time? Because of this stupid buffing system. Why can't players just /watch and automatically begin the buffing process? Why do I have to somehow "authorize" something and place my value and worth as an entertainer in something buffbots disregard with impunity? I'd rather put my self worth in what I always have: my live performance.

I see your point on this now

How can a bot appreciate your business when it doesn't even know its being appreciated?

If they didnt appreciate the business, they wouldnt be there.

Moreover, why would you choose me at all when you do not value the things I have to give you instead of the bot?

I value it sometimes, and other times I merely want to get my buffs and get out so I can play with my guild and friends.

Like my performance. My attempt to make your cantina stay more amusing. If you don't value these things now, its only because you are having difficulty getting what you need from the cantina to enjoy the other aspects of the experience.

What I and many other combatants need from the cantina is healing and buffing, we go other places for entertainment. Hunting and fighting with our friends is our choice of entertainment, while cantina atmosphere is yours.

Or did it simply create a scarce resource that paved the way for buffbots to find a niche by giving these things away with impunity?

I agree, and very well said. I highlighted the part that works with my point the most

Then you of all people should respect what I am trying to propose. I propose that we get rid of the needless complexities of this profession. To get rid of these safeguards like /setperform, /join, and /invite so that buffing can simply be a matter of /watch or /listen. It will ease the patron's mind because it will put buffing back where it always was: in their hands by /watching or /listening. It will free up our concern about their buff and concentrate on making the cantina fun again. It will eliminate, quite frankly, the only valuable, gated, and useful commodity a buffbot gives, a meager "/" command. And the buffs will flow like Talus water, my friend. And you will be free to appreciate the performances for what they are again instead of worrying that buffs are not available, and tip accordingly.

While this suggestion is a very good idea for fun, I believe it negates one of the main purposes of entertainer buffs, economy.

The biggest problem entertainers had early on was there was no way to actually make a living in the galaxy through the profession. By taking away the mechanical format of buffing youcould also betaking away their only source of income.

Maybe we can think of something that will meet both needs by modifying your suggestions to aceept the fact that there are a lot of children playing this game

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:57 pm

#20

Zilod wrote:

in fact is a circle

entertainers began to leave game/profession mostly cause hologrinders made profession no more fun

my opinion ok but i'm MM and ME from before hologrind times, i also mastered entertainer for my fs on another server and on both servers all entertainers i knew left the game or the profession, when i asked why generally the response was cause afk hologrinders.

I think this will clear up a lot of our misunderstandings. I was master before entrtainer missions, before holocrons, before Jedi was even coded in. There has always been one issue, unchanged, in the entertainer community with problems. Not enough content, not enough fun.

I mean really, a master dancer only has a few flourishes in their best dance They have no fast dance to accompany musicians great music, ok I could go on forever but back on subject

You missed one aspect because you are younger than I am in this profession Ill add it for you

so

lack of content and inability to make a living lowered entertainer population

->

afker hologrinders lowered atk population

->

buffs become more difficult to get and buffbots began to spread

->

new buffbots ruined not only player interaction but also entertainer profits, so even less reasons to be an entertainer

->

more entertainers leaving the profession or player not considering it funny

->

and so on and so on

i think now is time to break this cycle and the only way i see it is to

1) ADD CONTENT, make the profession entertaining, allowing all those old masters a reason to come back and new ones to stick with it

1) stop hologrinding (soon happening)

2) stop buffbots, is true that they where not responsable of entertainers decay, but they are still an expression of afk enteratiner play, that is the thing that have ruined the profession.

then will it be possible to speak about new song/dances, fixing ones that are not working, improve buffing and adding content... i can have 5000 songs and 200 instruments, but is not funny to play them solo not speaking to anyone cause cantina is full of afk npcs

This is where you are wrong, you dont need to stop buffbots before you fix the profession, making it entertaining.

If you do you will lose more customers than you gain back from the buffbots. And the ATK population will diminish and combatants will rely on chef foods. I wont even go into how much resentment there will be from other professions if this happens, because this is what you are doing...

"No, you cannot have buffbots"

"There are no players who match those filters."

"^%$#*& entertainers"

You have consumed Brandy

You have consumed Brandy

You have consumed Ahrissa

You have consumed Ahrissa

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:32 pm

#21

Padtai wrote:

There is nothing illogical about trying to ease the pain from a symptom while you attempt to address the cause as well, especially if the cause is not easily addressed.

This is my point exactly. All effort in the entertainer community has shifted the blame of a funless profession towards buffbots. Why isnt there more outcries for fixing the problem that caused the symptoms?

Using your analogy, the entertainers are not seeking a cure, they are merely seeking relief.

Whatever solution the developers introduce, I hope it is one that removesany incentive to run an account AFK all day in order to compete with people actually trying to play.

My hopes are the same, yet until the developers can insure the most needed buffs they introduced and made many players dependant on will be as easy to get as doctor buffs,I doubt they willtake away afk buffing. And shouldnt.

Being a social player or anti-social holds no value to this discussion. I choose to be social with my friends and guildmates. I rarely walk into a cantina looking for new friends with my combat char.

There really is no way to enforce the social aspect in this game without impeding on someones time and playstyle.

Message Edited by PistolDance on 07-31-2004 06:35 PM

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

Vortex500

Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:42 pm

#22

This may be a little of topic.

To answer the thread subject.

Yes they are a BIG part of the problem.

I think every single buff bot is bad for the game. AFK Buff bots... theyare one of the reasons why Im leaving.

SWG Account Cancelled July 2004. Reason:

1. Lack of interesting content for my profession. Done it all it feels like.

2. GCW as good as dead. Never really been a war.

3. Lack of Star Wars "feeling". It could be named Star Trek Galaxies for what I care. Or Lost In Space Galaxies...

4. All of the **** afk spam. I go to a cantina to relax and meet newfriends. From I enter to I leave: HEAL ME. TIP ME. GROUP WITH ME... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. Ok if they shouted that once every 10 minute... but no.. They shout/yell every 15 sec... spamming over and over and over and over and over and over again. That took away the last little SW feeling I had for this game.

And yes I known there is a option to turn of AFK spam. But they are still just standing there like robots. U dont really know if they are there or not. SometimesI almost feels insulted after trying to talk to a entertainer just to realise they are AFK. I have more respect for NPCs than the AFK bots . I dont understand... why have the game on if u arent actually playing it. U ruin the game for so many others.

Do u turn on other games and leave them AFK as well? I dont really get it. Its like buying a DVD. U start the movie and then u go to work. The only thing diffrent here in SWGis that your actions effects other people around the world, who is playing. For some u make their day and for some u ruin their day. Is it worth it?

I remember when I played this game in the start 2003. Cantinas was a meeting point , a real bustling place. U made both friends and foes in the cantina and no one was AFK. In the start people actually went to the cantina to meet people, sit and talkfor hours before the hunt while healing or just tohang out. Not like nowjust to watch a buff bot for 10 minutes and then run away.

Ok I know there areReal Entertainers out there doing a great job...Five stars to all of them. Its sad the devs allows AFK buff bots to ruining yours and mine game experience. Zero stars for the AFK buff bots. Shame on you Mr Buff bot.

But I have cancelled the game and are leaving this behinde me now.. so why bother.

I wish you all well and good luck. Take care.

NOTE: I have never beena Entertainer. But i have great respect for those who actually are playing their Entertainer. I cant understand how u can stand it in there in the cantina with all the bots.

Sorry for any miss spelling... Im only a Swede. Lol

And sorry if too much of topic.

N'eon Starbucket - Neutral - Master Shipwright/Architect
Niim'od Teekem - Neutral - Officer CL 46
Ixxus Cranata - Neutral - Smuggler CL 10
Esmatoo Dodo - Neutral - Novice Entertainer
Evoulution -eVo-
Chimaera

Zilod

Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:44 pm

#23

ehi i'm quite old too

ouch my crappy english i meant i was MM and ME before hologrind and jedi was coded too

i also agree that dancer profession had more troubles about conetnt, if musicans where able to jam and having fun playing togather for dancers was more difficult and needed more effort.

i also agree about the profits in early times... my MM, ME had not other side professions, i wanted him live just as an entertainer... in that time tips where not uncommon, ok i was not millionaire and many tips where under 1k, but i had fun chatting with other entertainers, appreciation of customers and was still able to own a little house and to buy many nice outfits

now thing are a lot worse, not only i can't have fun with fellow entertainers (cause all are afk) but also i recive almost no tips cause buffbots 'steal' all customers... the only tips i recently received are from ex entertainers....

for these reasons i'm not playing anymore my entertainer, i just log a couple of times a month to see how is the situation... and i can assure you that even if i have new songs to play or instruments i will not come back to play it until cantinas get ridden of afk zombies to return friendly and funny places.

as you said also many entertainers i know left the profession not due to lack of song/dances, but cause bad cantinas situation... also if you look around on forums you can see that many and many 'old masters' as you call them have same opinion as me. (i see a lot more posts about ending afkers and buffbots than to add new song/dances/instruments as it used to be in the past)

PistolDance

Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:56 pm

#24

Zilod wrote:

as you said also many entertainers i know left the profession not due to lack of song/dances, but cause bad cantinas situation... also if you look around on forums you can see that many and many 'old masters' as you call them have same opinion as me. (i see a lot more posts about ending afkers and buffbots than to add new song/dances/instruments as it used to be in the past)

Yes, I feel these people have given up on making the profession better. I cant really blame them for that though.

I did not start this thread to tell people what to do.

I am just trying to get some of them to stop and think what caused the buffbots in the first place.

If you can answer this question, you have solved the problem.

Like the people that disagreed with me even stated; Buffbots are a symptom of the problem.

The people that demand the AFK abilities to stop are not working towards the future, they are just worried about right now.

And that will hurt the communityeventually.

Milandra (SI)

" Into the garbage chute fly-boy! "

Zilod

Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:04 pm

#25

PistolDance wrote:

Zilod wrote:

as you said also many entertainers i know left the profession not due to lack of song/dances, but cause bad cantinas situation... also if you look around on forums you can see that many and many 'old masters' as you call them have same opinion as me. (i see a lot more posts about ending afkers and buffbots than to add new song/dances/instruments as it used to be in the past)

Yes, I feel these people have given up on making the profession better. I cant really blame them for that though.

I did not start this thread to tell people what to do.

I am just trying to get some of them to stop and think what caused the buffbots in the first place.

If you can answer this question, you have solved the problem.

Like the people that disagreed with me even stated; Buffbots are a symptom of the problem.

The people that demand the AFK abilities to stop are not working towards the future, they are just worried about right now.

And that will hurt the communityeventually.

maybe they think that the first thing to do, to improve profession is to stop buffbots and generally afk play

i was here months ago posting about new content too, now the main problem i see for the profession are afk buffbots, not to say that all the people that i see here in the forums and that think that buffbots are ok are no more entertainers, and generally combattant that fear to have troubles finding entertainer buffs if devs will remove afkers.

as said we can speak also of buff improving, to ad content and so on but my n1 issue is afkers and expecially buffbots...

so not a symptom but a real problem that gimp 3 professions

Drygo

Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:16 pm

#26

PistolDance wrote:

Drygo wrote:

PistolDance wrote:

Buffbots are the symptom of the problem, not the problem alone.

Buffbots were generally created by people that could not get entertainer buffs on their combat char.

I dont see a problem with the ability to attain entertainer buffs from an AFK person, as many times, it is impossible or too time consumingto find an ATK entertainer.

This uproar over buffbots isnt logical to me for two reasons:

1. They wouldnt be there if there were more entertainers on the server.

2. Solving a symptom of a problem does not solve the problem.

Why not focus on making the entertainer professions more enjoyable so there will be more entertainers there to buff instead of trying to stop people from playing the game the way they wish to?

I would just rather see the main problem so fervidly attacked,rather thanworking on the problems that arose because of it.

Similarly, 1) There would be more entertainers on the server if there weren't as many buffbots, and

2) You're right. The problem, however, is not that the professions are boring, because they're not. The problem is that SWG allows an all encompassing afk macro system, which needs to go.

Like I said before, the increased number of buffbots in the past month was a result of the lack of entertainers.

Its not the other way around, if it were why are the bots all of a sudden showing up in major city cantinas, where as before, they were only in player cantinas. Comabtants could not find entertainers to buff them, so they resorted to making their secondaries bots.

If the problem isnt the profession in itself, then where are all the entertainers? Before the bots started showing up entertainers were quitting and complaining about the profession's content. The only entertainers in a cantina were those grinding for Holo's.

I have been on both sides of this dilema, both as a dancer and as a combatant. I would walk into a cantina only to find AFK master dancers (no they were not buffboting).

Have you tried asking combatants "why?", have you tried asking the buffbots "why?". Go to one of their forums and do so. You will get the same answer with both, buffs were not available.

Wrong again. Entertainers left because of afk and macro, NOT the other way around. If afk and macro and buffbots had never existed, we would still be there. *I* would still be there. But, now I am just one of MANY who have either dropped their entertainer professions or left the game entirely EXACTLY because of afk and buffbots. I promise you that if buffbots were to be made illegal tomorrow, I would resubscribe.

The afk mentality in this game is what ruined it for everyone. Trust me on this. The afk came first, not the lack of buffing.

I've been an dancer since launch and NOT ONCE have I felt there was a lack of content or fun to be had entertaining. The afk and buffbots ruined all that, and so I left...just as many others have and more will. Take it away, and we'll be back, no doubt about it.

- I support hawtpants

Entertainer Archive

Thread: BuffBots, are they really the problem?