Entertainer Archive
Thread: DOWN WITH AFK ENTERTAINERS
SlickRiptide wrote:
I've been to Lok, Endor, Dantooine, and Dathomir.
I did alright on Dathomir. You know how much money I made on Lok, Endor, and Dantooine? None, none, and 1k. The only reason I made money on Dathomir is that ONE person gave me a 20k tip. If I removed that tip from the equation as an abberation and subtracted the cost of a round-trip ticket from Talus to Dathomir, my earnings from Dathomir were no more and quite probably less than I would have earned in a similar four-hour session at home.
Maybe, Sigrun, we'd "haul our precious little hotpants" out to the adventure planets if you and your buddies would open your **edit** wallets and make it worth our while. We're not your servants and we're not social workers. We're service providers who go where we get the most profit and the most job satisfaction. We KNOW how much a single mission pays on an adventure planet. I don't go to Lok so I can sit in the cantina and watch some master pistoleer pull out a slitherhorn and play starwars1 for his buddies because they're too **edit** cheap to pay me to heal them better and faster.
Quite frankly, you can take your attitude and shove it up your sarlacc pit. Tell yourhunting buddies to start PAYING the entertainers and pay them well. Maybe then you'll see some of us showing up on your precious adventure planets.
I don't know which server you're on. But I can tell you this: when I'm on those planets, I walk away with plenty of tips. This is on Naritus.
And yes, I DO open up my fat wallet and tip at-the-controls entertainers who actually say something to me while they're entertaining me plenty generously. Twice, I have given tips of 100k or more to entertainers who entertained me well. Not by their flourish macros, but by actually interacting with me. Most of the rest of thetips arein the 1-2k range.
Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. With the venom you spewed in this post, I'm sure you're a true pleasure to deal with in the cantinas. Mayhap you should consider switching to a combat profession or seek sensitivity training. Because flames like that sure as heck won't garner worthwhile tips from your clientele.
So I stick to my cantina until someone requests my presence, which is not going to happen, why call Denisa who they watch for hours sometimes on Tatooine when there's a...AFK tainer on their adventure planet ?
Tonight I'll be wandering again, I need some +17 healing clothes, so I'll be moving across 3 different planets since those tailors are spread out but as I said, I am willing to travel anywhere, the 10k travel fee does not bother me what bothers me is all the people who have a big mouth and then don't follow through.
And yes, I am a socializer, heck if I go to some new cantina there's always someone who recognizes me, infact I bumped into one person so often that he walked into a cantina last weekend and just screamed "It's Denisa, the wandering musician !", so I do go around and people know that, they also know that i'm there for them and not for my own selfish interest such as credits to pay for that +17 Wound healing top or skirt or whatever. I'm doing that to help them, not me, I'm just as happy in Mos Eisley.
But people need to stop complaining that there's no entertainers on this or that planet, call me darnit, if it's not past midnight on a weekday or past 5am in the weekend I'll jump on the first shuttle out.
But don't expect me to go to some remote cantina around 10pm tonight and sit there or dance / play music until 5am without a single person dropping in, that will never happen. It's not very social being in a empty cantina all by yourself... Besides I'm not rich like some persons who make 1 MILLION credits in 2 days, I have enough right now for 3 of those 10k tickets but depending on what I find in those tailor shops I might be completely broke with some fancy new clothes to heal you even faster.
And let me tell you something about danger, I cannot even walk to the bazaar from the cantina in Mos Eisley without some spice fiend attacking me resulting 99% of the time in me being incapped, well not as much anymore but I read stories about other towns where nasty things spawn dead center in town and go aggro on almost anything that passes by, you call that not dangerous ?
Sigrun wrote:
And yes, I DO open up my fat wallet and tip at-the-controls entertainers who actually say something to me while they're entertaining me plenty generously. Twice, I have given tips of 100k or more to entertainers who entertained me well. Not by their flourish macros, but by actually interacting with me. Most of the rest of thetips arein the 1-2k range.
Look, if you want to make a bunch of assumptions about people, be my guest. I'm very successful at home and it's not because of my flourish macros. It's because I do a decent job of entertainment and I encourage others to do so.
I'll say it again. Aberrations don't count. I was pleased aspunch to get a 20k tip on Dathomir. I'd be just as pleased to get one of your 100k tips. The problem is that most adventure planet hunters aren't that generous, not even close. A 100cr tip is just fine in Dearic. It's not so fine on Dantooine when I paid 10k for the round trip. It's even less fine when I'm completely ignored in favor of a party member with a slitherhorn.
Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. With the venom you spewed in this post, I'm sure you're a true pleasure to deal with in the cantinas. Mayhap you should consider switching to a combat profession or seek sensitivity training. Because flames like that sure as heck won't garner worthwhile tips from your clientele.
I feel the same way about you after your post in this thread. Funny how the flamer never feels the heat. Maybe you should re-read your original post from the point of view of an entertainer and ask yourself if you might have phrased it a bit more diplomatically.
I repeat - We are not social workers. We are not servants. We are service providers. If you want that service provided then get your buddies to make it worth traveling there to provide it. Coming into our forum, telling us its all our fault for being timid, quit whining, and get our "hotpants" out there is NOT the way to get entertainers to your planets. It IS a way to get flamed nicely, though.
I'll even repeat one more time so the message sinks in - The fact that YOU (and you wouldn't know it from your original posting) have tipped well in the past (but what's your normal, everyday tip?) doesn't change the fact that the average hunter on an adventure planet is someone who's earning many thousands of credits doing missions, yet he can't be bothered to tip more than 100cr to his healers when he bothers to tip at all. If you want a change, then don't come into our forum and criticize us. Go back to your home forum and teach your fellows to pay their entertainers for services rendered.
I've no more to say on this topic. As forum correspondent, I've said too much already. If you seriously want to get entertainers out to your adventure planets then I respectfully suggest that you try tact instead of bullying. If you walked into a cantina on a civilized planet and told the dancers "get your hotpants out to Lok or quit complaining" you'd find yourself on the receiving end of a bunch of /deny commands, not leading a troupe out to help the adventurers.
SlickRiptide wrote:
I'm very successful at home and it's not because of my flourish macros. It's because I do a decent job of entertainment and I encourage others to do so.
.... AH.. there's the rub.
Slick's experiences are exactly the same as mine. And BTW Sigrun, I am on your server (Naritus), so it's possible on that server to have the same exact experience Slick had. Because I've had it.
I made 300 credits and under 1000 healing XP for an entire day on Lok 2 weeks ago. The trip cost me 3,200. I didn't lose money because my friends and I went hunting afterwards, but we made nothing in money or healing XPs -- and actually it was healing XPs more than anything else we were after.
Then I spent all day last weekend, on Saturday, figuring it's a "prime" day for people playing the game -- a few hours each in morning, afternoon, and evening with breaks for real life (breaks I take by logging OUT, not AFK freakin' macroing). It cost me about 4,000 to go there, and I popped between the two outposts to the tune of 1,200 (actually more but I won't count the one I went to on the way to look for Ewoks, since that's got nothing to do with dancing and I didn't have to do it), costing me 5,200, and I got back 3,500 or so in tips and maybe another 2,000 healing xps.
So I lost money and got very little healing xp.
Contrast this with an AVERAGE night in my home cantina of Keren (which, btw, is a very under-served cantina as well, and often I am one of the only people there too). On an average night I will pull in 2-3K credits, and its ALL PROFIT since I live just outside Keren and it therefore costs me zero to go there. I watched the last couple of nights too, on an average night I will pull in over 1,000 healing xps and Wednesday I got 5,000 -- i.e. as much as I got on Lok and Endor.
So what reason would I possibly have for GOING to the high-end worlds? As Slick correctly said, we're not your servants. My character may be a Twi'lek dancer with a bone crest but she is NOT Oola the slave-girl of Jabba the Hutt. She is a professional dancer and she expects to be paid for her services. Now, in Keren she will dance essentially for "free" and a bunch of little 100-200 cr tips, or even no tips, are really OK with me. But if I am going to spend 4 freakin' THOUSAND credits going to a high-end world, I expect to be paid and well paid, or else why should I spend that money?
And what Slick is saying is that while, yes, it is highly variable on the high end worlds and, yes, you can make a killing there, all too often you can spend an entire evening there and make NOTHING... and when you know full well that the same evening would net you +7,000 credits (-4,000 for the trip + 3,000 or so in average tips) and the same exact healing xp, you have to ask yourself why you bothered to come.
There's only one way to get entertainers to come to the high end worlds -- make it worth their while. And as long as AFK freakin' macroers are there being healing robots for the guys making all the high-end-world-cash, they have no reason to make it worth my while.
The beginning and end of this problem is the AFK macro-bots. If they were not there, hunting parties would be coming to this board posting when they would be on Endor and Dathomir and begging for us to go. But because the hunting parties already know there will probably be a bot there, they don't have to bother, and we have no real expectation of a reward for going to those worlds.
I've said it before. Psychology 101. People do what they are rewarded for doing. They avoid what they are punished for doing. Sitting bored all day in a cantina getting no healing XP and losing 4,000 cr in tips is a punishment. So I will avoid it next time. Making 3,000 cr in Keren and getting some healing xp and better yet some nice RP and socializing is a reward, so I will keep doing it.
See how it works yet?
And Slick, if you're still reading this thread -- don't worry about the fact that you're the Entertainer correspondent. You have every right to speak your mind and you are doing an excellent job, along with Ravenmist, of representing us. I agreed with everything you said, and you said it perfectly well.
C
DenisaGalen wrote:
I posted on my forum last tuesday when my weekend started that I was willing to travel anywhere if a entertainer was needed, I waited all weekend for a mail or /tell so I guess we really are not needed on those adventure planets, 2 guys responded on the forum that they'd mail me ingame, but the only mail I got was the location of a tailorshop from someone I talked to.
To be fair, such people won't know who to contact when they arrive at the advanced planets. You fly out to Endor and realize there is no Entertainer. How do you look one up? If you do a /who, it shows only those on your planet. Maybe the Search feature in Ctrl-P will look for Entertainers offworld. That part I'm not sure about.
One could argue that the patron should go around the starter planets and take notes on all Entertainers he encounters. How updated will that list be? The results may be something like this.
Patron: Hey, would you be willing to come to Dantooine and dance for 15k?
Alice is not online.
Buffy: I dropped Dancing.
Carrie is not online.
Daphne is not online.
Elle is not online.
Fatima: Sorry, I'm doing a wedding right now. Check back in 2 hours.
Gigi is not online.
Hannah is not online.
Isis: AFK-response: I'm not at my keyboard.
Janice is not online.
Kiki is not online.
Lacy: I haven't danced in a month.
Marcy is not online.
Natasha: Okay, depending on the startports, I should be there in 15 minutes. See you soon!
Some people know to use /who, and they'll give it a try. I was hunting on Yavin when someone asked me if I could dance. Since I was out in the jungle alone for a while, I figure he used a search feature and saw my title of Enthraller.
I don't think that many people who hit those planets have a way to reach an Entertainer that is offplanet. It helps if they know someone (like a guildmate) who is on another planet and can say, "Hey, see if you can find an Entertainer to come out here to Dathomir. Tell her my group will pay 20k."
Chessack wrote:
Or...
They could just think ahead and go into the "starter world" cantina before heading to Endor, instead of trying to contact us as an after-thought, after they wake up in the cloning facility with all-black HAM bars because they forgot to clone. But of course, forgetting to clone is also about not thinking ahead, and that's the problem -- the people who need us there are of the sort who do not think ahead.
However, THEY are the ones going to the high end worlds and "taking on the risks." It's really their responsibility to think ahead, and walk into a cantina in a place like Nahal or something and say, "Any dancers want to come on a hunting trip? We'll pay your way and protect you."
That's mostly true. Those who stay on those planets for a long time won't have that luxury. When I go to Dathomir or Yavin, I intend to stay there. I play, log out, and log on again later. If other people follow that routine (don't know if it's common), then when they log on, they won't know who's dancing on starting planets.
But as you said, it is taking on the risk. Just like there is a risk that you will be eaten by a rancor, there is a risk that your droid will run out of power or that your weapon will break down or that your health won't be quite up to par. And people who take on those risks will have to suffer the consequences if the risks don't pay off.
I'm just saying that it's not always as easy as /telling an Entertainer who is offplanet and requesting a gig. But I agree with you that it's all part of the risks. Such a person will have to hope to find an Entertainer. And if one isn't there, he has to pay the travel cost to get to a starter planet and maybe persuade someone to travel back (but from that person's point-of-view, he just traveled for some entertainment so why should he pay extra to fly an Entertainer out there? This viewpoint can cloud the big picture).
And it does boil down to enticing Entertainers into going to the advanced planets and staying there. If patrons want Entertainers to be there all the time, then they will need to pay those extra costs in order to defray the cost of the ticket plus the tips the Entertainer would be losing during that time.
I still say that the next time an Entertainer decides to give one of these planets a shot, he should try to talk another Entertainer into accompanying him. At least, there will always be good conversation until one or the other logs off.
They could just think ahead and go into the "starter world" cantina before heading to Endor, instead of trying to contact us as an after-thought, after they wake up in the cloning facility with all-black HAM bars because they forgot to clone. But of course, forgetting to clone is also about not thinking ahead, and that's the problem -- the people who need us there are of the sort who do not think ahead.
However, THEY are the ones going to the high end worlds and "taking on the risks." It's really their responsibility to think ahead, and walk into a cantina in a place like Nahal or something and say, "Any dancers want to come on a hunting trip? We'll pay your way and protect you."
But see, they don't want to do that. That requires thought, prepraration, effort, and money. What they want is for us to fly all the way out to Endor and sit there, hour after hour, for the instant they need us. They want us to be at their beck and call. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I don't play the game for their benefit. I don't mind helping people who need it, but I'm not going to sit around in Endor's little cantina being bored and unable to do half my dances because the room is too small, just on the off chance someone with money may walk in and need a heal.
They want dancers on the high end worlds? They have to think ahead, and find one to take with them. If they don't bother to do that, I have no sympathy.
C
I went to Lok together with a Master Musician, absolutely nobody there and the few people we saw at the starport didn't speak.
Atleast we got to see the Pirate king and his private cantina in his fortress...
SlickRiptide wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
And yes, I DO open up my fat wallet and tip at-the-controls entertainers who actually say something to me while they're entertaining me plenty generously. Twice, I have given tips of 100k or more to entertainers who entertained me well. Not by their flourish macros, but by actually interacting with me. Most of the rest of thetips arein the 1-2k range.
Look, if you want to make a bunch of assumptions about people, be my guest. I'm very successful at home and it's not because of my flourish macros. It's because I do a decent job of entertainment and I encourage others to do so.
I'll say it again. Aberrations don't count. I was pleased aspunch to get a 20k tip on Dathomir. I'd be just as pleased to get one of your 100k tips. The problem is that most adventure planet hunters aren't that generous, not even close. A 100cr tip is just fine in Dearic. It's not so fine on Dantooine when I paid 10k for the round trip. It's even less fine when I'm completely ignored in favor of a party member with a slitherhorn.
If you're effective, it's likely you won't be ignored in favor of someone with a slitherhorn. Have you tried suggesting to groups such as thisto invite you in for 15 minutes and /watch you so you can apply a nice mind buff to them? Ooh!Yet anotheradvantage that at-keys entertainers have over AFK entertainers and dabblers. Hmm...
Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. With the venom you spewed in this post, I'm sure you're a true pleasure to deal with in the cantinas. Mayhap you should consider switching to a combat profession or seek sensitivity training. Because flames like that sure as heck won't garner worthwhile tips from your clientele.
I feel the same way about you after your post in this thread. Funny how the flamer never feels the heat. Maybe you should re-read your original post from the point of view of an entertainer and ask yourself if you might have phrased it a bit more diplomatically.
I am an entertainer. Suggesting that my POV is otherwise is to display lack of knowledge or perhaps lack of reading comprehension skills(it's listed in my sig and I reference it frequently in my posts). I would not be here if I were not an Entertainer.
I repeat - We are not social workers. We are not servants. We are service providers. If you want that service provided then get your buddies to make it worth traveling there to provide it. Coming into our forum, telling us its all our fault for being timid, quit whining, and get our "hotpants" out there is NOT the way to get entertainers to your planets. It IS a way to get flamed nicely, though.
So it's MY fault that you're not where you need to be? It's MY fault that you're sitting in a cantina filled with AFK entertainers on Theed instead of soloing or taking a small group where you're really needed? How is that MY fault?
I'll even repeat one more time so the message sinks in - The fact that YOU (and you wouldn't know it from your original posting) have tipped well in the past (but what's your normal, everyday tip?) doesn't change the fact that the average hunter on an adventure planet is someone who's earning many thousands of credits doing missions, yet he can't be bothered to tip more than 100cr to his healers when he bothers to tip at all. If you want a change, then don't come into our forum and criticize us. Go back to your home forum and teach your fellows to pay their entertainers for services rendered.
This is my forum. I am an Entertainer.
My normal, everyday tip is in the message you referenced. You even pulled it in when you quoted me. (More reading comprehension issues?) It's sufficiently generous, one would think. And again, what others tip is not MY problem. Quit whining at ME about it and find a constructive solution to the problem you perceive.
I've no more to say on this topic. As forum correspondent, I've said too much already. If you seriously want to get entertainers out to your adventure planets then I respectfully suggest that you try tact instead of bullying. If you walked into a cantina on a civilized planet and told the dancers "get your hotpants out to Lok or quit complaining" you'd find yourself on the receiving end of a bunch of /deny commands, not leading a troupe out to help the adventurers.
As forum correspondent, isn't it your job to take the feedback from ALL of the members of your profession who care to post here? Or has Thunderheart given you FC's leave to filter out items you disagree with, simply because you disagree with them?
And I wouldn't "bully" in a cantina. I posted here with a less than sensitive attitude because of the complete deluge of hypocrisy and intolerance that the anti-macro camp exudes. I'll not meekly walk away and allow you to tell me how I'm spending my $15, especially when SOE hasn't indicated anywhere in any form that it violates TOS or the rules of the game.
If you want AFK entertainers gone, be BETTER than them. You offer so many advantages that they can't. You don't need to browbeat them. You don't need to encourage SOE to spend valuable programming time executing failed attempts to rid the game world of them.They tried this once with survey macros, and those are still going strong. Let's not waste their time doing the same with our profession.
Instead of all that, please justTHINK about what advantages you offer and put them to good use. You'll win in the end because you CAN BE better.
And let's offer constructive ideas to SOE to make at-the-controls entertaining MORE VALUABLE to our patrons. That, they can do effectively. People who want to AFK macro will ALWAYS find a way around anti-macro limitations.
After battling, I'd rather have AFK entertainers than NO entertainers. The way I figure is I'll always watch/listen tolive entertainers first.But if no one is around...Iselect those AFKers. And I always tip entertainers who are actually there. I never tip the AFK entertainers. I think that's all fair.
I think AFK entertainers shouldn't group up and not tell people they are leaving. That's rather rude. Definitely boot them out of your group.