Entertainer Archive
Thread: Self Buffing could help the Night Owls
Page 1 of 2
SakeO
Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:34 am
#1
Lord knows, many dancers and musicians would like to buff themselves and I think there are few against it. If it were allowed, it might be enough to convince a few combat oriented players to pick up dancer or musician 4,0,0,0 to tend to BF and late night buffing needs. Part of the reason so many combat templates have doctor is that they can buff themselves.
SakeO
PhoenixStar
Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:49 am
#2
You may as well just have said get rid of entertainers altogether. The only thing we can do is buff and heal mind wounds/battle fatigue. Those of us master dancers with no combat professions would be totally useless if anything like that went into the game.
If combat professions can't be bothered to wait 4 minutes for buffs, then they don't need them.
Message Edited by PhoenixStar on 08-04-2004 02:54 PM
RusskiySniper
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:05 pm
#3
Thats terrible, almost like template stacking.... only evil... Plus it won't let you get the most out of your combat proffesions.
Tiaga
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:12 pm
#4
I might also point out that this idea boils down to one thing.. Give entertainers self buff. That's something the community has been asking for.
Drygo
Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:34 pm
#5
Behind getting rid of the buffbots, being able to self buff has always been my #2 wish. We should most definitely be able to buff ourselves and it makes absolutely no sense that we can't, not too mention the fact that aside from combat medics, we're the only professions that aren't allowed to use all of our skills on ourselves.
I kind of have a feeling most combat players wouldn't invest that amount of skillpoints just for a 75% buff. However, if self buffing helps people out and makes people less upset about the supposed lack of entertainers, then I think that even makes things better.
Even if a bunch of combat people get the 75% mind buff to help themselves and their friends out, people are still going to choose a live person if there's one around for the 100% buff.
Oh how I've longed to not always be the first person to get mind incapped out in a hunting party because everyone is buffed but me...
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:33 am
#6
An interesting idea...
This may be better than some of the alternatives, even with the downside. I'm not sure it's so bad though.. Not everyone is going to have 63 skill points to burn just for a 75% buff.. And even at 63 skill points that only gives them half the buff.. This is something that the split between musician and dancer buffs could work for us... If this went in with a change to the buff system to make music or dance matter for the quickest buff, that would mean they could spend awhile buffing themselves 75%, or come to one of us for a master 100% buff.
Thoughts?
This may be better than some of the alternatives, even with the downside. I'm not sure it's so bad though.. Not everyone is going to have 63 skill points to burn just for a 75% buff.. And even at 63 skill points that only gives them half the buff.. This is something that the split between musician and dancer buffs could work for us... If this went in with a change to the buff system to make music or dance matter for the quickest buff, that would mean they could spend awhile buffing themselves 75%, or come to one of us for a master 100% buff.
Thoughts?
PistolDance
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:51 am
#7
Drygo wrote:
I kind of have a feeling most combat players wouldn't invest that amount of skillpoints just for a 75% buff.
You are correct 
PistolDance
Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:28 pm
#8
PhoenixStar wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Drygo wrote:
I kind of have a feeling most combat players wouldn't invest that amount of skillpoints just for a 75% buff.
You are correct
You've forgotten about all the template mixing that's been going on I guess. All they'd need to do is go up the technique line and bam, instant buffs at their disposal 4 0 0 0(you could even do it with less if you wanted it badly enough). People have already done it with doctor as well as taking multiple lines for defense, so it's not far fetched or anything.
The HUGE difference between people mixing their combat template with doctorcompared toentertainer is that these people dont just do it so they can buff themselves.
In PvP and regular combat it is more useful to have the abilities to heal hams, and mainly poison/disease and states that occur during combat compared to being able to buff yourself. With CM's and the higher end beasts it is practically a must for soloing.
The ability to buff yourself only saves time and credits. For a combatant, the healing and cure abilities are the reason for wasting points.
Being able to mind buff yourself just isnt enough incentive to give up all those points.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-05-2004 01:31 PM
Zilod
Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:18 pm
#9
Mah i don't like it too much, i don't see big drawbaks (if balanced) but is not for my taste
probably worse thing is thatentertainers will losecustomers
(really i don't think that no mm or md can't be found in a given hour)
about that we have to consider 2 things
docs are quite different from music and dancers, the doc "game interaction" with players is not just about applying buffs, but even making buff paks that are used by "part time" docs.
for a mm or md this doesn't happen and virtually mm and md will lose any form on intereaction with self buffing "part time" entertainers. (expecially if even BF and mind are self healable)
also we must consider that as mind buffs are % a 25% difference can be that high to justify a master, to add that we can put in that probably "fightning entertainers" will have more acces to buff tapes than to a "pacefull" md or mm.
is also true that doc gives is not just buffs but good healing, andpoison/disease/flame defence so we have to see how much is really worth to get entertainer just for self buffs
anyway to balance it i suggest
not make healing bf and mind wounds works on self (will probably make entertainer quite useless, will be easyer to spend 15 points to heal that or to heal and surrender that)
give another buff bonus to 1+other entertainer lines... keep the main bonus as it is now but split a portion of it in 1 or more lines so dedicated entertainers will have better/longer buffs
an idea is also to introducealso timer bonus with same purpose
eg let's say that a 4 0 0 0 entertainer can buff at 60%, and at 50% duration (100 mins)
a 4 0 4 0 can buff at 80% and 60% duration (120 mins)
a 4 4 4 4 can buff at 80% and 80% duration (180 mins)
master 100% and 100% duration (200 mins)
anyway i still prefer to make entertainer buffs more easy to get than to try to replace them or not making a real entertainer essential.
entertainer playsile relay mostly on interaction, and if many "normal players" will not need them anymore we will impact directly on that playstyle. (who is probably one of the cause that made atk entertainers leave the profession/game when afkers invaded cantinas)
PhoenixStar
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:12 am
#10
PistolDance wrote:
Drygo wrote:
I kind of have a feeling most combat players wouldn't invest that amount of skillpoints just for a 75% buff.
You are correct
You've forgotten about all the template mixing that's been going on I guess. All they'd need to do is go up the technique line and bam, instant buffs at their disposal 4 0 0 0(you could even do it with less if you wanted it badly enough). People have already done it with doctor as well as taking multiple lines for defense, so it's not far fetched or anything.
Tiaga
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:37 am
#11
PhoenixStar wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Drygo wrote:I kind of have a feeling most combat players wouldn't invest that amount of skillpoints just for a 75% buff.You are correctYou've forgotten about all the template mixing that's been going on I guess. All they'd need to do is go up the technique line and bam, instant buffs at their disposal 4 0 0 0(you could even do it with less if you wanted it badly enough). People have already done it with doctor as well as taking multiple lines for defense, so it's not far fetched or anything.
It may not be far fetched, but would it be a bad thing? After all, that is the whole intent of the profession based advancement of SWG.
If buffs are that big a deal to them, and they can't find them, then they will pick it up. This will be an expensive trade-off. Dancer or musician 4000 is 14 skill points short of novice doctor, but worse than a single line of most combat elites, even assuming it was picking up the style of combat they didn't do (IE marksman taking brawler). Considering they will be out fighting they won't be stealing much business from us, as they can only do it ATK.
And since they have to grind it out ATK and can't do so while on the field (Unlike medic/doctor), they will probably end up meeting an entertainer in the process anyway, and decide it's not worth the effort to continue now that they know how to find an entertainer.
PistolDance
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:41 pm
#12
I have always been in favor of entertainers being able to buff themselves. As it is the entertainers are the only profession that cannot use their most valuable ability on themselves. Correct me if im wrong on the "only".
Allowing them to buff themselves would help a lot with entertainer/combat chars that are involved in the GCW and PvP. More people would choose entertainer if this ability was available in my opinion.
Drygo
Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:35 pm
#13
Tiaga wrote:
It may not be far fetched, but would it be a bad thing? After all, that is the whole intent of the profession based advancement of SWG.
If buffs are that big a deal to them, and they can't find them, then they will pick it up. This will be an expensive trade-off. Dancer or musician 4000 is 14 skill points short of novice doctor, but worse than a single line of most combat elites, even assuming it was picking up the style of combat they didn't do (IE marksman taking brawler). Considering they will be out fighting they won't be stealing much business from us, as they can only do it ATK.
And since they have to grind it out ATK and can't do so while on the field (Unlike medic/doctor), they will probably end up meeting an entertainer in the process anyway, and decide it's not worth the effort to continue now that they know how to find an entertainer.
Right...that's 63 whole skill points to invest just to get a 75% buff in either dancer or musician. If you want both, that's 83 skill points. That's an awful lot of points to take away from someone's template just for buffing, and not even a 100%. While some people will choose to do this, the vast majority will not. And, as Tiaga said, the whole point of SWG's profession template is to pick and choose what you want from the professions. I have no problem at all if others want to dabble away a whole 63 to 83 points just for the purposes of self buffing their own minds. I mean, people can only pick so many things. Some people value scout skills, some value medic and doctor skills, and some people will value entertainer skills. But, hardly anybody is going to use all those skill points to have these advantages and still have enough left over to do what they *really* want to do. That's the beauty of the 250 skill point cap, you have to make choices. And, far be it from me to not let people have that choice. And, to be perfectly honest, I *am* biased, because I want to buff myself! 
There are a lot of people who have dropped musician and dancer, who enjoyed entertaining, but feel it is important to be able to use one's own skills on themselves. I agree with them. This will add to the entertainer population, and keep us from being overburdened.
There are a lot of people who have dropped musician and dancer, who enjoyed entertaining, but feel it is important to be able to use one's own skills on themselves. I agree with them. This will add to the entertainer population, and keep us from being overburdened. I have not forgotten what it was like before buffbots. I couldn't step into Coronet without getting a million tells for a buff. I try not to look at the past with rose colored glasses. I know the reality of what we're going to face once the buffbots are gone. And, I'm telling you, some of us are going to want to have a little time to ourselves every once in awhile. 
Page 1 of 2