Entertainer Archive
Thread: Dance Battles and Tolerance
"This is not combat. This is dance. You don't go Special Forces and go have a dance off in someone's base. This is an idea for 2 or more entertainers to actually get some live interaction out of a game they pay for. I am not saying this would have any vaild ties to actual combat. Until that day, continue waving your lightsticks at the general public"
If it had been presented like that and not combatively to us, it might have been received well. The original post looked like "YOU GUYS SUCK AND THIS IS HOW I THINK THEY SHOULD FIX YOU". We're tired of those. We do love new ideas, really. People should just *stop and think* before they post something which could be considered combatative or insultive.
"You got served" in my opinion, is insultive and trolling. I don't even know what it means, except that people always use it to insult each other.
The point is that in the Entertainer communities, coming in and blathering on about something you know nothing about, doesn't get you very far.
A quick "Hey, I'm not an Ent, but what do you think of this?" would work wonders. Act like a child, get treated like one. Act like a troll, get treated like one. It's simple.
As far as the idea goes...why on earth would I want to battle anyone with dance? There's simply no *point*.
Everitt_Cage wrote:
Sorry, there was no "trolling" in that post. People just misinterpreted it's meaning, and proceded to troll themselves by calling hima troll, when he really wasnt.
It was trolling "behaviour". The original post appeared inflammatory for the following reasons:
1. Insultive title
2. All caps in big colourful letters
3. Implied insult by assuming he knows about our "problem".
We're tired of non-ents coming to our forums and telling us and/or the devs what's wrong with our profession or how they think it can be better. There are plenty of discussion threads in the stickies for ideas. People should take the time and read them *before* posting to the community.
Really, we're pushing back on people because we're tired of everyone coming in and being disrespectful.
Gothywench wrote:
Everitt_Cage wrote:
Sorry, there was no "trolling" in that post. People just misinterpreted it's meaning, and proceded to troll themselves by calling hima troll, when he really wasnt.
It was trolling "behaviour". The original post appeared inflammatory for the following reasons:
1. Insultive title
I was not insulted, and only he knows whether it was meant to be insulting or not. If it wasnt, then anyone who was insulted by it misinterpreted it.
2. All caps in big colourful letters
All caps is annoying, but theres alot of that on the forums. Nobody can really say anything about someones color choice though, thats just being silly. Its a persons choice what color font they want to use.
3. Implied insult by assuming he knows about our "problem".
Implied insult, hmm? Your saying if he's not an ent he has no right to post ideas on what he thinks would be cool for ents to be able to do? Maybe he just thought it would be something cool to WATCH ents doing(and if you've even seen people "dance fighting" in RL, you'll notice theres always a crowd around them). The truth of the matter is people just misinterpreted the meaning of his post, thinking he was talking about ents engaging in actual combat.
Really, we're pushing back on people because we're tired of everyone coming in and being disrespectful.
Hey, nothing wrong w/ that, as long as you( in general "you", not you specificly) realize that other people comming in and being disrespectful doesnt give you an excuse to be disrespectful back at them, unless you want to make yourself a hypocrite.
Gothywench wrote:
"You got served" in my opinion, is insultive and trolling. I don't even know what it means, except that people always use it to insult each other.
Well, that's a mistake that the OP made, assuming that everyone would be hip to the movie connection. *shrug*
As far as the idea goes...why on earth would I want to battle anyone with dance? There's simply no *point*.
Well, if the devs were to trouble themselves to implement entertainment "duels", I could imagine a whole lot of uses for them. Just as an example, there could be factions among the planets and cultures in the game, and "entertainment duels" could be used to raise faction enough to acquire new styles from those factions.
Anyway, the point is that it was a valid idea, even if it was a slightly immature presentation. Heck, the "entertainer as bard" idea has been bouncing around here since beta. I guarantee it'll show up here again. (Someone just posted a "bard" thread in the Musician forum last week.) No point in getting emotional about it. The people posting such are generally thinking that they've got a good idea, not that they're trying to get the goats of those silly entertainers.
As for the dances, some of the new kung fu dances could lend themselves to a type of dance battling. Also, incorporating "Capoeira" style dancing would be nice. Next time I will present the idea more formally. I do care about entertainer although I am not one. I'd also like to see a hunting buff like +creature harvesting or even +creature to-hit ratio. I have a plan that ties into using camps for added bonuses to those buffs. After 2 years of play, I have many ideas and I definitely relate to the feeling of not being heard. Sorry for the caps everybody, now lets get onto fixing entertainer!
Dama! I told you people are a little cranky here. 
If you mention battle/combat/fight in the same sentence as Entertainer, it all of a sudden equals "bard". Which is a bad-word here. Of course, if you would explain what you meant instead of just YELLING IN PRETTY COLORS, it would help. hehe. Silly Wookiee.
This came from a conversation Dama, some Master ID, and I were having in a cantina. His interest involves me, since weareguildies and I am a Musician. He's just looking to help. Other than the popular "You got served" quote(which is a stupid movie) dance competitions are nothing new. Even outsideof the hip-hop/breakdancing community.
To me, here is what most of our post-CU comments have boiled down to:
- If you want a purpose in the game, it almost has to involve combat. To me, out of combat buffs would make the most sense here. Entertainers do not fight, but we could help those that do. Much in the way that our Mind Buffs and BF Healing helped.
- If you just want to roleplay, then you are set. You don't need buffs or anything else to roleplay, just song, instruments, dances, etc. All of which we already have. Your desires for changes in the game would consist of more choices (i.e more songs, dances, etc.).
The entertainer competitions would add to the roleplay content. For more purpose in the game, I would say that if we are looking to help those people that participate in combat and want something that they would seek out an entertainer for, then they are exactly the ones that should be posting in here to tell us what they would like to see. So before we start blasting anyone that says "I'm not an Ent, but..." perhaps we should hear them out. Believe it or not, the non-Ent people want to help us enjoy the game too.
BTW, I am a Musician/SL. No, I have no desire to be a Bard. I like goofing around meeting people (Musician) and also helping out a group of my guildies when hunting (SL).
Norb Gerboa - Shadowfire
Panthu wrote:There are even "taunt" animations for breakdance that we just don't have yet
Those're neat.
It'd be nice to see them on live.
Dojoden wrote:
I apologize for making big letters. I didn't realize the impact. Honestly, I just think its that simple though. SOE wants money. SOE wants girls to play.
A. Not all people who play entertainers are "girls." Many of them are "boys." Some are even (perish the thought) grown men and women.
B. What makes you think that GIRLS will want to be dancer-battlers for some reason? I would think if you are going to generalize anyway, you may as well do it correctly, since most surveys of female gamers show they are more apt to play peaceful/social professions than violent/combat ones (and men are generally the reverse). I hate generalizations myself but at least if you are going to make one, go with the more common pattern.
C. Making "big letters" equates to shouting in "nettiquette". Especially in all caps. It looked like you were screaming at us... and since a lot of combat-wombats think that dancers are useless unless they do something in battle your post most definitely came off as pure flame bait. And, I might add, implying that all entertainers are "girls" who want to dance in battle, you're not doing anything to shake my initial impression of you as a forum troll.
C
2. You are correct about the colour. I do have to say that various colours *is* a problem, as there are many of us with bad eyes and some who are colourblind. By having something so glaring painful by both size, caps and colour, it intensifies the feeling.
3. I'll explain "Implied insult". As example, someone came into the ID forums claiming to have all these ideas to "fix" our profession. First, it isn't broken. Second, if they truly cared enough they'd have taken the time to find out what the community wants and make their ideas accordingly. He started off with "This is what SOE can do to fix you". Who said we're broken? (I know there is a lot that is for *some* of the entertainer classes, but this is just a simple point).
4. No, I don't think that it's bad that non-ents have ideas. I do think it's bad that people come in and spam our forums with crap. And by crap, I don't mean that the ideas are crap, but that it's crap the way people present it. I don't head over to the jedi forums and go on about how I think their profession can be fixed. I'd be tore to shreds! I think our little push back and quick rise to defense is *nothing* compared to the other forums. If anything, I think he got off light as far as forum posting goes.
5. Maybe we "misinterpreted" because we have no frame of reference? If one was given ahead of time, none of this would even be happening. I have never seen "dance fighting". So I don't know about this "crowd" of which you speak. Or anything else related to it. To me "Dance Battle" says "Combat".
6. I know I'm old in this game. I expect people to come in and say what they mean and be respectful while doing it. And much like any curmudgeony old woman, I really want to say "Hey kids! Get off my lawn!".
