Entertainer Archive

Here are some heretic thoughts concerning the upcoming CU.
I will try to keep pathos to a minimum, but, after all, I play dancers, so you'll hopefully excuse me if you'll still find some.

The combat revamp was long expected to make some sense to a game of random beating, people asking to have a friendly duel (no db) and PvP dominated by DOT weapons. Overall I welcome the CU and believe it will make this game way more interesting for most of its players.

But, as it was before when the Jedi where revamped, it becomes more and more clear that entertainers are not wanted. They take mind wounds out, the ability to migrate stats (I don't know how stats other than the well described health will be working, but it seems they will not play a very important role, which is not bad since they were unlogical and reason for way more anger than actual fun in combat tactics), and the ability to buff mind and secondaries.
That leaves us with the ability to heal BF, something every entertainer can do, though not as good as a musician or dancer can.
They said something about some minor long time buffs. If I interpret right what I read that means not worth more than 10% health or maybe a few points on the one or the other skill. Compared to a medics or and artisans skills it surely wouldn't hurt to put all of this into entertainer and leave the "elite" entertainers void of any game function.
The rest of the elite entertainer professions will be just for our own fun. While IDs are regulary sought for their abilities, the fewest players would actually listen to a musician or watch a dancer just for the fun of it. So the experience in game does not explain the mere existence of dancers and musicians and hardly that of image designers.

So my heretic idea is: Take image designer, musician and dancer away. The idea to invent them was good, but, as it seems they have little room in the game and even less as the formerly flawed concept crystalizes more and more to something solid.

• The pure game functions left could be spread over the entertainer tree


• The ability to dance the different dances and play the different songs could be connected to quests, like a quest on Vreni Island to learn lyrical. Each song/dance comes with one or two of the fifteen effects dancers/musicians have by now. Due to the fact that implementing new quests seems to be a quite difficult undertaking relatively simple quests like the existing entertainer quests would be enough. Do not connect these quests with XP however, or if it must be far less XP, no more than 50k.


• Take out lower versions of the same dance. Merge the exotics into one and take out poplock, popular etc. and replace them with poplock2, popular2 etc.


• For each of these quests a player wins he gains fame badges. If a character has won all fame badges that alone would qualify him to at least "Feel a surge of the Force", given the number and difficulty of the quests.


• Some of these quests should only be available to people who fulfill the former requirements for the given profession. Some should only be available to master entertainers.


• For Image Designer I see several options.
  1. First and probably worst: Do the same as with Dancers and Musicians as proposed above.
  2. Merge Image Designer with Bio-Engineer. Due to what Image Designers do, that is the most logical options.
  3. Merge Image Designer with Tailor. The two most creative professions and the two professions that care mostly about other people looks in one. This would be the most fun for both tailors and Image Designers.

I know this sounds bad, taking away our nominal identity and possibly even our voice. But think about it. Entertainer will still be a valid profession, and a rich profession even concerning game funcionality. We still have our entertainer voice.
Other than that it has only advantages: Skill points, badges on the way to FS, the same artistic abilities as before, a entertainer profession that is actually worth its points, as valuable as medic or artisan as said above. The new concept of the game leaves no room for elite entertainers. So don't Force us to not play any role by taking everything away from us! All we want is some animations and sounds. Why not give it to everyone who is willing to undertake a not-too-easy quest?

So go ahead, flame, burn, kiss me, build altars for me and throw me down to hell, I am waiting for you thoughts about this!

Greets,
Sharven [Infinity]
Auset [Starsider]
Nephtys [TestCenter]

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 03-21-2005 04:13 PM

With the appearance that entertaining in general is going down in value to simply a play style with no connection to the rest of the game I see some sense in what you propose. I would like to see any such quests only accessable by entertainers and not just anyone. That at least brings value to the novice entertainer profession. Yes I think the elite professions could go in this case although I admit I would prefer to see them bring enough value to the professions to make the skill points worth while instead.

The biggest problem I see with your proposal is that it will take a long time to implement, especially given our priority. In the interim what can we get to make these professions worthwhile? I really don't want to give up my master musician skills but if I want to be viable in the game SOE is trying to force that decision on me.

---

Hobbytla wrote:

No personal offense, but what has gotten into people lately? Some drama, anger and disappointment, sure, but... it seems that some sort of mass paranoia has gripped every forum since Fridays announcement.... Everyone is predicting the end of their profession and their game experience.

Quests are good though! I like quests!

---

The point of my proposal is to not actually bury anything. If it was applied no-one would loose anything. I am just saying that these professions would better exist on the level of quests. I am not going to "drop" dancer by any means.
It would be just better if the price for being dancer would be fair.

As for the image designer... I am not image designer, so I can hardly judge what you think. I just thought you'd have fun being tailor at the same time and it wouldn't hurt anyone.

I'm sorry. Under no circumstances do I believe the answer to the current problems surrounding the entertainer professions is to remove them. The answer is for the developers to actually give some serious time to them, to revamp them, and to discover new and interesting ways to involve them into the civil war and the economy.

I will never willingly go along with the removal of my chosen profession. That's a cop out in my book, an admission that they refuse to even try. It's like asking the TKAs, pikemen and swordsmen to push all their abilities down into the brawler tree because the devs are too lazy to balance the elite combat classes properly.

This proposal does not meet my approval, not by a long shot.

---

Warryyr wrote:

I say fix the professions, don't remove them.

---

Yes. I agree with Warryyr (and everyone else that is against eliminating the professions). As for the ideas regarding ID... I have IDs on virtually every server where I have characters that I play regularly. Not ONE of them has any Tailor or BE skills... nor do any of them want to have to become either an Artisan or a Medic to keep ID. I would strongly oppose moving ID from where it is on the skill tree!

---

Warryyr wrote:

Hmm.

I say fix the professions, don't remove them.

Even if we could all still do the same things as now, removing Dancer and Musician sends the wrong message to the community.

I think the moment any professions are just removed from the game is the moment that people think the ship is sinking, and they'll scurry like rats off the gang plank, before it's too late.

The professions need work, and that's an incredible understatement.

I'm still reeling from the pitiful attempt to end AFK Combat, yet the very destruction of our professions by that plague continues unabated, without so much as a yawn from the Devs.

I'm never giving up, I want these professions to be what they should be in this game. They need to be fun again, and competing with Player Characters bots that are ALLOWED by the Devs to flourish isn't anyone's idea of fun, not by any means.

---

I agree with this. We will never die.

you must be f00king joking, right?

we all want our professions to be valued and integrated, to have a place and a role. killing them is not really going to get us there is it?

The CU is not going to do us any favours, its a CU, the C is for COMBAT. Am I hopeful there will be ever be an EU, the E being for Entertainer (all ent profs) - no I'm not, it will never happen, we represent too small a part of the fee paying community to actually ever get that, but we will push for and continue to get the odd little thing here and there.

Even if my real value in game is ZERO, no buffs, no healing, no bonus to group, nothing, zilch, nada, zip - I WILL STILL BE PLAYING IN MY BAR EVERY NIGHT until they remove the mandoviol from my dead fingers. I do this for my fun, to socially entertain and be part of my community, if I get to help, heal and buff as well then great, if not, well it sucks, but I will live with it. A small drop in skill point requirements would make me happy (as right now I wont be able to remain master rifles with the new ranged support requirement) but if it doesnt happen, well it doesnt happen.

The last thing we need now is for division or a hint of surrender, a large part of the gaming community and the devs have shown themselves to hold us as worthless, we are not.

Stand and fight, dont roll over and die.

/pointat Sharven
/shout burn her at the stake!