Entertainer Archive
Thread: Padtai & Isadora's BUFFBOTS!
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PistolDance
Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:01 pm
#1
Now that I have your attention 
I would like to state first that the only thing Padtai contributed to the following post was her Entertainer Merchant Idea and the want to discuss everyones ideas more. As well as ideas on making these suggestions a more viable option.
In this post my views are NOT shared with hers and vice versa.
That will come later hopefully
Since most of us know the developing fix wont get rid of buffbots entirely it would be a good idea to work on incentives for players to choose ATK over AFK.
Idea 1. Radial menu (un-macroable, like recharging a droid battery) for a bonus to buffs.
For group buffs radial on group leader, for singles on single player.
The bonus could be:
a. Buff strength
b. Buff Duration
c. Shortened buff period
The problems we have worked out so far...
Buff strength -an addition to strength might not fit into the combat rebalance, as I believe they are making doc buffs weaker.
Buff Duration -Again may not work into the combat revamp AND would have players frequenting the cantina's less often.
Shortened Buff Period - The non-radial menu buff would need to be lengthened in order for the radial menu buff to be shortened.
Padtai has an interesting idea about Merchant entertainer buffs, but I would like her to post about it as I may get it wrong 
If enough of us bring ideas to the table and discuss them we might find one not only doable but pleasing enough to all professions
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-04-2004 01:00 AM
Padtai
Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:41 am
#2
CRAFTING AND OTHER BONUSES: The idea is to get non-combat types and combat types a reason besides mindbuffs or healing to visit the cantina. I based this off another post I read on the in-concept thread so it is not "MY" idea but I liked it and added my spin to it:
"crafting and other buffs" wouldn't stack with the chef foods. They could count toward but not stack with the capped skill mods (I believe +25 is the cap forclothing attachments,so no crafter gets more than 12 pts to experiment). So by temporarily getting a "buff" an armorsmith or weaponsmith could have 12 pts (though those with skill mod items would not go above it) and 25% assembly (the same as those who have had the money to buy those rare items). Particularly for levelling crafters,a buff to reduce experimental failures might be good. This could also apply to surveying. We could limit it to only one type of buff (mind or other version).
Mechanically, different songs or dances could produce the different buffs, so that there is a reason aside from artistic ones to have variety in a performance. Entertainers could be given the ability to buff certain skill mods (again the way chef foods do), perhaps these would not stack on top of the chef versions. By not allowing these to stack, we prevent people getting too strong. This does provide a little competiton with chefs, but on the other hand, there are so many different foods and things to modify, that the stomach limits prevent in anyone fight people from doing more than one effect. . So one might buy chef food to get knockdown defense, and an additional (stackable) mindbuff, but see an entertainer (well musician or dancer) to get a boost to their intimidate mod or dodge or block (something people already do by acquiring clothing attachments). The only downside of course is the difficulty to modify how the chef code works to let it be delivered through entertainers, as well as possible concern from entertainers that this decreases the importance of the artistic or social side of your profession over adding to the healing/commercial side of it.
The entertainer should have more control over whether or not these effects occur, without forcing entertainers to do them. My original idea on the in-concept thread was to create a window like diagnose is for doctors or the image design screen that comes up only when the entertainer calls for it. If you are playing music at a wedding, then there of course, you could avoid calling up the screen while you play. On the audience side there would be a matching popup window thatonly activateswhen they "request buff" or something from an entertainer, so that again, the window does not always appear unless they want it--unlike the ID screen that can fly up when only one side wants it. The box should be designed to be relatively small so as not to block your view (like the inventory screen) so its useable for you to see your chat or your character while performing so you have an option to mix in some healing into your performance rather than having a healing mode and an entertaining one.
Padtai
Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:16 am
#3
I had this long version of my merchant idea but I can't get it to post. Maybe that's good as I'll be much shorter this time.
Merchant Services Vendor:
Why I suggest this: Allowing players a choice to be independant but encouraging them to interact and be interdependant does not mean we have to preserve the ability to let people play AFK, something I think has problems beyond the impact on entertainers. There is a demand to have reliable access to a non-crafted buff and people willing to play the game in this way. Some are loners, some play at odd hours, some do not like to disturb other players by asking for help while some want to provide an off-line service to friends and the community. They feel they "need" bots, but perhaps there is another way to let them have what they want without destroying the design of the game. Those who want buffbots because they are easy money or give free buffs, however, should be out of luck.
The idea for a merchant services Vendor that would :
require Hiring IV (or Master merchant) AND Musician OR Dancer.
only be placed in PC cantinas or houses where vendors can now be placed.
require retaining the HIring IV skill to be operated.
be "loaded" by having the owner perform to it to create a limited set of stocked buffs.
would display a "projected image" similar to R2D2's projection of Leia of the owner's song or dance.
would take slightly longer than most live entertainers to deliver a buff and could not do both buff types at once.
would not heal battlefatigue or wounds (since there is autoheal in cantinas already).
have a higher maintenance rate than goods vendors.
offer a buff either shorter than or one skillbox down from the owner's skill (so 1 hour or 75% buff if master)
would not count any clothing attachment bonuses to the buff (so maximum 75%).
Benefits to Non-Entertainers: Reliable and consistent access to a non-crafted buff (letting players have more choice in their food selections even when they cannot find live entertainers). Would give merchants a reason to keep a skill line that currently can basicaly be dropped after one decorates one's vendors.
Benefits to Entertainers: would not replace need for live entertainers and would also provide entertainers a way to make money without crafting or fighting, perhaps allowing them to spend more time performing or socializing.
PistolDance
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:06 pm
#4
Kinda sad to see no one posting about these ideas
Padtai wrote:
"crafting and other buffs" wouldn't stack with the chef foods. They could count toward but not stack with the capped skill mods (I believe +25 is the cap forclothing attachments,so no crafter gets more than 12 pts to experiment). So by temporarily getting a "buff" an armorsmith or weaponsmith could have 12 pts (though those with skill mod items would not go above it) and 25% assembly (the same as those who have had the money to buy those rare items). Particularly for levelling crafters,a buff to reduce experimental failures might be good. This could also apply to surveying. We could limit it to only one type of buff (mind or other version).
Awesome idea!! Bonus tapes are to find and pricey. Most non-power gaming artisan's dont have the credits to spend on them. And the ones that do would get this buff as well just to cap.
Mechanically, different songs or dances could produce the different buffs, so that there is a reason aside from artistic ones to have variety in a performance.
Very cool idea as well, though I would worry about getting the wrong buff and then not being able to redo it. Thats a bug Id like to see fixed first
PistolDance
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:18 pm
#5
Padtai wrote:
Merchant Services Vendor:
Why I suggest this: Allowing players a choice to be independant but encouraging them to interact and be interdependant does not mean we have to preserve the ability to let people play AFK, something I think has problems beyond the impact on entertainers. There is a demand to have reliable access to a non-crafted buff and people willing to play the game in this way. Some are loners, some play at odd hours, some do not like to disturb other players by asking for help while some want to provide an off-line service to friends and the community. They feel they "need" bots, but perhaps there is another way to let them have what they want without destroying the design of the game.
/agree
The idea for a merchant services Vendor that would :
require Hiring IV (or Master merchant) AND Musician OR Dancer.
Good idea, that way the entretainer community will not have to use more SP for merchant.
only be placed in PC cantinas or houses where vendors can now be placed.
I would rather them only be placed in Cantina's. Just another reason for players to visit player cities, and there just might be an entertainer in there to provide their services as well as buying from the merchant.
require retaining the HIring IV skill to be operated.
I dont agree with this, I think it would be better for the entertainer to have to have "register cantina" instead of merchant skills. Also nothing else should be able to be sold on the vendor.
be "loaded" by having the owner perform to it to create a limited set of stocked buffs.
would display a "projected image" similar to R2D2's projection of Leia of the owner's song or dance.
Though this would be incredibly cool, I can see how it would be hard to code in. Perhaps just a window much like the /examine gives that you have to watch while you get buffed.
would take slightly longer than most live entertainers to deliver a buff and could not do both buff types at once.
would not heal battlefatigue or wounds (since there is autoheal in cantinas already).
I agree with the buff taking longer and not being able to heal wounds (cant the entertainer playback module do this already?) Instead have only droids with this module be able to activate the purchased buff sessions.
have a higher maintenance rate than goods vendors.
Good idea.
offer a buff either shorter than or one skillbox down from the owner's skill (so 1 hour or 75% buff if master)
would not count any clothing attachment bonuses to the buff (so maximum 75%).
Another good idea, the incentive to see a live performer should not be reduced by the merchant purchased buffs.
Benefits to Non-Entertainers: Reliable and consistent access to a non-crafted buff
It would also curb the lack of entertainers available during non peak hours, this is the main concern non-entertainers have.
Benefits to Entertainers: would not replace need for live entertainers and would also provide entertainers a way to make money without crafting or fighting, perhaps allowing them to spend more time performing or socializing.
Awesome idea
Padtai
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:10 pm
#6
Perhaps if you titled this thread: Entertainers and those who Support Buffbots are the problems, All hail merchants! people would read it?
I dont' know seems like heated flame wars get more traffic the same way an accident by the side of the road does .
.Maybe once it gets enough replies people will read it. In response to your comments on the merchant idea:
I don't really want to suggest that people buy droids to actually playback videos that would be portable anywhere. That would encourage people not to go back to cantinas. I was thinking the vendor itself would look like a little r2 and when clicked on would do the graphic--but your'e right that type of thing though it would look really cool would probably be too hard to code and eat too much bandwith to be feasible. But I had to say it anyway . So what would someone see/hear ? Would they purchase the buff and wait while nothing happens? Maybe the droid plays music that sounds like most computers do when playing music files--that odd electronic type music, and when dancing the droid shakes around a little bit.
. So what would someone see/hear ? Would they purchase the buff and wait while nothing happens? Maybe the droid plays music that sounds like most computers do when playing music files--that odd electronic type music, and when dancing the droid shakes around a little bit.As to placing in PC cantinas, I was worried whether entertainers might feel a droid being placed by a guildmate in the cantina by say the chef who owns it (as they can put them down to) might be offensive same as having buffbots inthere. NPC droids (if the person had the barking skill) talk a little bit and not sure you can ignore them even.
I definitely agree the vendor has to be single purpose for services. Perhaps they can't talk, that would solve the issue of letting them be in cantinas.
I'll go back and edit the original post eventually --hopefully some others will comment. I think the main problem is that both ideas are pretty complex and obviously not quickfixes that could be added to "soften the blow" of losing AFkbots.
PistolDance
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:20 pm
#7
But lets not stop! Ideas are always better the longer you discuss them
Padtai wrote:
Perhaps if you titled this thread: Entertainers and those who Support Buffbots are the problems, All hail merchants! people would read it?
lol no kidding
I don't really want to suggest that people buy droids to actually playback videos that would be portable anywhere. That would encourage people not to go back to cantinas. I was thinking the vendor itself would look like a little r2 and when clicked on would do the graphic
Actually having the merchants in the cantina's selling the buffs would be just like having a buffbot there. The only difference is the merchant wouldnt be able to buff as well.
Thats why I suggest the buff to be placed in a droid for further use. Yet, I can see your point as well.
As to placing in PC cantinas, I was worried whether entertainers might feel a droid being placed by a guildmate in the cantina by say the chef who owns it (as they can put them down to) might be offensive same as having buffbots inthere.
ya
I'll go back and edit the original post eventually --hopefully some others will comment. I think the main problem is that both ideas are pretty complex and obviously not quickfixes that could be added to "soften the blow" of losing AFkbots.
Ya again
Padtai
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:25 pm
#8
Oh one more thing, the HIring IV requirement was aimed at helping merchants as well as creating an ongoing skillpoint investment for entertainers. People tend to do merchant, get vendors, then drop the class and then basicaly play a merchant. Right now there is incentive to keep advertising (reduces the fee for it), efficiency (lets you place tents and structures cheaper) but no real reason to redecorate or place new vendors once you have placed them. Vendors do not go poof or loose their clothes if you drop these lines of the tree. All that happens is that you can't put new ones or redecorate them again. So this part of the idea was aimed more to help merchants.As for the skillpoint investment, I do think thatcreating the ability to sell somethingwhile offline is a feature of the merchant profession and ought to belong to merchants. So while that makes it harder on entertainers, if what an entertainer wants todo is focus on being a commercial sort of entertainer, then they can sort of make this hybrid focus their template. Similar to how some BE's are tailors while others are creature handlers.This would keep the supply of these vendors down a bit as not everyone would want to do this instead of having more fighting or other crafting skills. Right now, most of the bots are alts. A few people use their main character as a bot during the times they can't play, but the majority of bots I think are dedicated accounts geared solely to the purpose of filling the demand for mindbuffs.
I can imagine if fully fleshed out, that the big guilds would have these things up and running quickly, especially if there were doctor version vendors also.
PistolDance
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:59 pm
#9
Padtai wrote:
Oh one more thing, the HIring IV requirement was aimed at helping merchants as well as creating an ongoing skillpoint investment for entertainers. People tend to do merchant, get vendors, then drop the class and then basicaly play a merchant.
So the vendor can be put there and programmed by a merchant but used by the entertainer? That would be cool
But if you were thinking the entertainer would have merchant, that wouldnt be cool
Dancer and Musician are Elite professions.
They really cant afford that extra 29 skillpoints, it would be a bit too taxing.In a masters point of view
Padtai
Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:20 pm
#10
Actually, I did intend for someone to need to have both merchant and entertainer as a hybrid career. The reason was so that there would not be so many of these vendors about that too much traffic is lost to those in cantinas (people are lazy sometimes, why not just get the 75% buff in the player city right here then go back to theed for the 25% better buff?).
Also if basically the way merchant works now, you'd just have to power through it once, put your vendor and then run it forever. I'd hate to seemore empty vendors about simply because people put them up because they can then forget about them. I know some people have master merchant and still have empty vendors, but I thoughtthat requiring the skill point investment might encourage only those who really want to focus on buffing to do it.
So I wanted to keep the hurdles high sopretty much, only those who pay $15 a monthjust to make money for the buff market would have to pay some ongoing costs in game, spend a few extra skillpoints, and some time in game the way those who run vendors do, to make being a bot their profession. Then they can play it as a merchant because they'd be a merchant, not someone abusing the macro system to make a merchant out of an entertainer.
That creates a lot of empty vendor type problems since there's no ongoing investment in being a merchant over being something else(like a fighter as well as entertainer). For those who already run buffbots, this would not be a huge issue since they probably have unused points anyway on those alts. For people who have an entertainer as part of their main character template, then I can see the new vendor would be something hard for them to pick up. However, I didn't think the purpose of this idea was to make sure only "real " entertainers could sell buffs, but to make sure peoplewho otherwise would resort toabusing the afk/macro system to sell them, would have another alternative designed into the game to do so.After all, from what I heard, the economic competition fromthebots wasn't so much the issue as the unfairness of the method with which they tried to compete, as well as the spam, noise and depersonalization having an afking characters strewn about the galaxy. So this way, you either choose to try to be a merchant type entertainer youreself (and invest the points to do it) or you decide to continue with the design of your character as it currently is. They may make more money trying to corner the off-line buff market, but that is the role of merchants and not necessarily the goal for entertainers. Those who would prefer to have their fun in other ways could do so, in cantinas no longer choked by buffbot spam, or using their points on other things they enjoy.
Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:19 pm
#11
PistolDance wrote:
But if you were thinking the entertainer would have merchant, that wouldnt be coolDancer and Musician are Elite professions.They really cant afford that extra 29 skillpoints, it would be a bit too taxing. In a masters point of view
I am a master Merchant, and will be master Musician as soon as I can get the last entertainment healing XP. I Even have master entertainer, and a bit of ID (so I can set my own hair at parties
).The game is about choices. If someone choose to master musician and dancer, they still have 67 SP left. enough for Novice artisan, The business line, Novice merchant, and the hireing line, still 18 SP left (and novice Merchant gives two vendors so that fits nicely). It would be a choice like everything else.
Now I do not particularly like the idea of selling my music buffs on a vendor, just seams wrong somehow. Nevertheless, I will chip in a few ideas anyway.
The "hologram" of the owner could be replaced with an NPC vendor with the "blue glowy" effect that was originally mend for perm death Jedi masters. It could just do the animation of "no flo's" to make it bit easier code wise (I have seen some npc's dance when I passed them out in the wilderness, so npc's have access to the dance animation).
I like the idea of skill buffs, there are many crafters in my home town and I would love to be able to provide a service for them as well. But would that ho hand in hand with vendor buffing? It just have me a horror vision of a cantina with a crafting station in every alcove, resource vendors by the bar, and skill buff vendors on the stage...
Now we merchants have been asking for a consignment system on our vendors. If such buff vendors was implemented it could be a master thing, but where the merchant gave access to a dancer/musician who would then "stock" it with buff. Any profit would then be split according to the agreements made. If the entertainer had the PC cantina as thair normal hangout they could use the time, when know one is around who need healing or buffing, to stock the vendor.
Edit: fixed html tags.
Message Edited by Tarnak_Archvold on 08-05-2004 04:20 AM
PistolDance
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:41 am
#12
nice addition, isnt there a proposed change to merchant that goes along with this idea? I thought they were gunning for merchants to work with other players as a service.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Now we merchants have been asking for a consignment system on our vendors. If such buff vendors was implemented it could be a master thing, but where the merchant gave access to a dancer/musician who would then "stock" it with buff. Any profit would then be split according to the agreements made. If the entertainer had the PC cantina as thair normal hangout they could use the time, when know one is around who need healing or buffing, to stock the vendor.
Tarnak_Archvold
Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:44 pm
#13
Merchants are getting al little love as entertainers (What does that say about my template I wonder)
We have many many suggestions on the merchant boards, but the only things we have been promised was the removal of empty vendors from map registration and that vendor poaching will be removed at some point. Was supposed to have happened in 9.2 I think, but as you properly know, it did not.
We have suggested consignment systems to them many times, in many different forms, but I drought SOE even plan on listening to us.
(What does that say about my template I wonder)We have many many suggestions on the merchant boards, but the only things we have been promised was the removal of empty vendors from map registration and that vendor poaching will be removed at some point. Was supposed to have happened in 9.2 I think, but as you properly know, it did not.
We have suggested consignment systems to them many times, in many different forms, but I drought SOE even plan on listening to us.
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